[Spoilers] Lazteuq and RefSteel's PB51 Adventure

[Lazteuq]

T69:

Connecting Ivory has turned out to be important, I sent the second worker to build the camp faster.
Near Carne Asada, workers have already roaded toward the barb city and are working toward the next settling spot, probably 1N of the plains hill sheep. I decided not to send one back toward Enchilada, because they will have plenty of work to do with the upcoming western cities. They can farm riverside tiles for a city which doesn't exist yet, thanks to being Creative.

This feels like it could be improved - we're turning a lot of food into hammers this way at 1:1, when we can do a lot better with granary whips. Since lime green dot is likely to steal one of the corn tiles when it's founded T72 or T73, I'd actually recommend letting Quesadilla grow until then, while still working its scientists, even if it grows into unhappiness - and even when it is unhappy! - as long as it's making at least 4 net food per turn. Then when Quesadilla reaches size 6, by which time I believe lime green dot should be planted, we can resume the Settler and whip it. (If it's a triple whip, we can drop the cottage for a turn, then pick it up again, making that our one single-scientist turn, as we start to regrow - although this isn't even mentalsimming; it's sheer guesswork without knowing how much food or how many hammers the city has invested already.)

Makes sense, I set Quesadilla back to the Spearman. I'll make sure to remember the 1turn 1scientist.

Of course, by that point we're definitely going to be short on Workers again....

Yes. After the next 2 cities are settled, I think Quesadilla, Enchilada, and maybe Carne Asada will produce workers.

Superdeath is settling north of his capital as expected. The question is: How far north will he go? Will he settle right here? I expect so, because it looks like a nice spot. He doesn't need to worry about the copper because he already connected a different source(I saw an axeman down south).

Superdeath definitely has multiple sources of copper and is going to get horses soon.
If he's guarding this settler with only a warrior, he's clearly not very worried about me attacking. I bet I could snipe that city with 2 chariots, but I don't think that would be smart.
Down south, superdeath's borders have expanded to completely cross the donut coast-to-coast, so I can't continue sending a warrior south.I guess I could offer open borders, but I think he would almost certainly refuse.

This power graph probably makes it look like we're up to something, with that sudden increase. I hope this doesn't trigger our neighbors into preemptive reactionary attacks.


No new activity from Giraflorens, but it seems like they must put down another city toward us sometime soon.

[RefSteel]

Connecting Ivory has turned out to be important, I sent the second worker to build the camp faster.

Makes sense; as I understand it, adding this source of happiness was a big part of the reason we founded this city when we did.

working toward the next settling spot, probably 1N of the plains hill sheep.

Wow ... if that city is the best we can do as a plant toward superdeath, I suspect we'll need fishing and sailing soon, to start looking toward the islands.

I set Quesadilla back to the Spearman. I'll make sure to remember the 1turn 1scientist.

Cool - especially since, with the other Worker contributing, Quesadilla should already be happy after growth and the completion of the roaded camp next turn! It sounds to me then like we should be able to triple-whip the Settler from size 6 to size 3 without ever spending a turn in unhappiness!

After the next 2 cities are settled, I think Quesadilla, Enchilada, and maybe Carne Asada will produce workers.

Makes sense as long as we aren't using too much food surplus as hammers (I can suggest ways to avoid this if you'd like, though I've lost track of where most of our cities are in terms of whip anger and food in the bin) - and as long as all our good tiles (e.g. improved resources, FP cottages and Scientists in Quesadilla) around those cities are in use. Hopefully Lime Green and Assyrian will be "helping" with this by borrowing food tiles from Quesadilla and Carne Asada soon!

If he's guarding this settler with only a warrior, he's clearly not very worried about me attacking. I bet I could snipe that city with 2 chariots, but I don't think that would be smart.

Depends on where he's planting his city, I think, but yeah, if he founds in place and his capital is where you think it is, sending a chariot force to attack it would probably be a mistake. If he decides to plant (e.g.) 2NE on the other hand, it might be time to start talking about MP military tactics.

Speaking of our chariots and/or axe though: How are we doing on our Assyrian campaign? Any combat yet?

I guess I could offer open borders, but I think he would almost certainly refuse.

If you want to, then it doesn't hurt to ask (once). It would be worth commerce to each of us at some point too. (Not yet though - probably after Sailing if we can defog that city of his on what we're assuming - if this map is really donut-like in that way - is the outer coast.)

This power graph probably makes it look like we're up to something, with that sudden increase. I hope this doesn't trigger our neighbors into preemptive reactionary attacks.

Don't worry; I seriously doubt that would happen. Superdeath might always attack us for an imagined slight, or might declare war without attacking and request peace immediately because a power spike triggers his paranoia, but he doesn't typically attack in response to increased power (and I doubt if Giraflorens is going to try anything either - at least not in response to a sharp jump in our power that leaves it roughly matching his!)

[Suite]

I'd like to see an overview map with your planned cities. Assuming superdeath founds at his settler you could settle at the location of your scout (or if you are worried about being too aggressive, one tile north of it). On the riverside there is a nice spot at wheat-7. Did I understand correctly that you already have 7 workers? Maybe focus a bit more an settlers now because the place is running out soon.

[Lazteuq]

T70: It's all about cities
An axe and 2 chariots are in position to take Assyrian next turn.

I'm considering sending the upcoming settler from Enchilada to settle toward Superdeath instead of lime dot. Then we could leave lime dot for Quesadilla's settler few turns later. I don't expect to lose that spot to giraflorens if we delay by a few turns. Quesadilla will 3pop whip on T73, so it could be settled T75.

Wow ... if that city is the best we can do as a plant toward superdeath, I suspect we'll need fishing and sailing soon, to start looking toward the islands.

Point taken. I realize that spot excessively limits our options, so I made a new dotmap below

I'd like to see an overview map with your planned cities. Assuming superdeath founds at his settler you could settle at the location of your scout (or if you are worried about being too aggressive, one tile north of it). On the riverside there is a nice spot at wheat-7. Did I understand correctly that you already have 7 workers? Maybe focus a bit more an settlers now because the place is running out soon.

Here's a dotmap: The numbers are not in any specific order.

I'm feeling pretty skeptical about my previous idea of leaving some land alone in the southeast. Now if Giraflorens hasn't claimed it already, I think we can claim 6 it as a third-next city after 1 and 4.
Assuming Superdeath settles where he is right now, I like Suite's idea of settling what I labeled 4. I think that would most effectively claim land, while being on a plains hill and having at least something for food. Then 3 could be filled in later, because our creative culture from the barb city will already prevent Superdeath from settling 3.
Spots 2,5,7,8 can be filled in much later.

Workers vs. settlers: I think the upcoming cityspam means workers will again be in short supply, even though they feel plentiful right now. I think only one more settler will let us claim most of the important land(spots 1,4,6). To get it ASAP, we could whip it out of Carne Asada instead of building more military. I'm not totally decided on this plan, but I set Carne Asada to work on a settler, because we can afford the stacked whip unhappiness now that we have 2 luxuries, and I don't see a strong need for more units right now. After these 3 settlers are done, I think we can make workers and settle the remainder more leisurely.

[RefSteel]

I'm considering sending the upcoming settler from Enchilada to settle toward Superdeath instead of lime dot. Then we could leave lime dot for Quesadilla's settler few turns later.

Makes sense if we can have Workers and units in place to support those moves, sure.

Point taken. I realize that spot excessively limits our options, so I made a new dotmap below

Oh - sorry! I didn't mean that as a back-handed snipe at the choice of city sites (though I do like your new dotmap too) - I meant it just as I said it: If we're scrambling to find mainland cities with any real food, we might want to start thinking seriously about the islands. (Site 4 does at least get the dry wheat, which is better than a plains hill sheep, and claims more forward territory, but relatedly, it's harder for our workers to reach and will take a lot longer to connect to our trade routes.)

Did I understand correctly that you already have 7 workers? Maybe focus a bit more an settlers now because the place is running out soon.

Welcome, Suite! As I understand it, we have units in place to capture the barb city of Assyrian, we're already completing a Settler next turn and whipping another a couple turns later - and it sounds like we just started yet another in Carne Asada! So obviously the focus is indeed on settlers now; in anticipating a need for more Worker labor, we were thinking ahead to the period after our current settler wave.

Then 3 could be filled in later, because our creative culture from the barb city will already prevent Superdeath from settling 3.

Culture from the barb city won't engulf the 3 tile for a long time, but I still take your point: I doubt even superdeath would settle that city in that position. It would also be a pretty aggressive plant from us, "stealing" his new city's copper (it looks from PBSpy like he settled in place after all) but it sounds like a definite decision on that one is still a ways off.

I also notice Gira is nosing around with an Immortal. Probably he's just scouting, but it's still a good reminder that we could use some spears....

[Lazteuq]

T71:
Superdeath did settle in place.

Because of Gira's scary Immortal and because we don't have any workers or escorts ready yet, I decided to send Enchilada's new settler toward spot1 after all. The upcoming settlers from Carne Asada and Quesadilla will take spots 4 and6. We'll have an axe and a chariot at minimum for escort, and 2 more spearman in the works.

Site 4 does at least get the dry wheat, which is better than a plains hill sheep, and claims more forward territory, but relatedly, it's harder for our workers to reach and will take a lot longer to connect to our trade routes.

Workers are in definitely bad positions right now for sites 4 and 6, so they cities will be unproductive parasites on our economy for a while, but that's a trade I'm willing to make.

Barb City: One of our chariots lost to one of the barb warriors so we didn't take the city this turn, but we still have a city raider axe on 4.5hp and a chariot on 2.6 to finish the job. Worker2 is building the road to connect it.

Enchilada started on a Spearman while it grows in 2 turns(15/26food)Working the FP cottage, not the mine.
Quesadilla is continuing its spearman while it grows in 2 turns(17/30f). Running 2 scientists.
Carne Asada can 2pop whip a settler next turn. But I have a little voice in my head saying "Have mercy on that poor city and let it work those magnificent hammer tiles" A whip is convenient, because the captured barb city will take it's cow tile next turn, but Carne Asada will have a new farm available next turn as well.  Edit: I forgot captured cities have turns of anarchy before they can do anything. So actually Carne Asada can work that cow for 4 more turns.
Salsa has 15h left on the Granary and is at 9/24f. When the gold mine is worked T75, we'll get a nice commerce boost. I wonder how much Salsa should be whipped, since it is food-poor and commerce-rich. I'm thinking of not whipping until it reaches size 5.

[Lazteuq]

T72:
Site 1 will be founded next turn, unless Gira declares war. That would be unfortunate timing for sure.
The barb city has been captured and renamed Chile Relleno(because it has spices nearby).

I ignored the little voice saying "don't whip!" and whipped a settler out of Carne Asada anyway. This means Sites 4 and 6 will be settled at roughly the same time.

3 workers will be going southeast to sites 4 and 6, 2 workers are near Chile, 1 is chopping for a granary in the new city, and 1 is chopping north of Quesadilla.

Accidentally moved a warrior into this awkward situation:

I'm assuming Superdeath's army is entirely copper-based for now, because the horse near his capital is not hooked up. Those aggressive Shock axes are tough. Let's avoid them.

Tech: We got some nice gold from the barb city, sitting at 117, -19 per turn at 100%. Break-even at only 20-30%. Math finishes in 3t. I wonder if we should get Archery next, or Fishing-Sailing, or toward Monarchy. I guess that depends on how scared of Superdeath we are. Spearmen are a better counter to Gira's Immortals, and Immortals even have a bonus against archers, so researching Archery will only help against 1/2 of our neighbors.

Next turn I'll post a view of the whole empire.

[RefSteel]

The barb city has been captured and renamed Chile Relleno(because it has spices nearby).

Cool! Congrats! So we're about to be up to 6 cities - with Settlers due out soon for two more? That's probably at least competitive - and probably a problem for our economy. (Have you checked the diplo screen to see how many cities our neighbors have, by the way? It should list all of them except the capitals....) We'll definitely want to grow onto some more cottages (and of course the gold) if we can, to support all this.

1 is chopping for a granary in the new city, and 1 is chopping north of Quesadilla.

With Math coming in so soon, it might be worth pausing those chops (maybe to road the tiles?) so they come in the turn after the tech completes. Ten hammers per chop is a pretty big deal, and at this point, it will only be a slight delay.

Accidentally moved a warrior into this awkward situation

I'm not sure how their AI decision-making works; we'll have to hope the barb axe is so focused on superdeath's city that it ignores our warrior. We'll see!

Tech: We got some nice gold from the barb city, sitting at 117, -19 per turn at 100%. Break-even at only 20-30%. Math finishes in 3t. I wonder if we should get Archery next, or Fishing-Sailing, or toward Monarchy.

Given our expansion plans, worker situation, and economy, I suspect Fishing has to come next, both to net 6's fish and to let us work lakes. By that time (if we're not delaying chops, we might even want to start now) we should be saving gold so we can turn research back on sooner after building the Academy in Enchilada. I don't think Archery is going to help us; archers are pretty helpless against both Immortals and Aggressive Praets. Sailing probably comes next to help us tech toward whatever comes next (by letting us plant an island city for the boosted trade routes) but to defend against praets, we'd need Construction, or at least HBR.

Next turn I'll post a view of the whole empire.

Sounds great!

[Lazteuq]

T73:Tortilla has been founded. Shares corn with Quesadilla of course.
Big pictures:



This shows a promising island with crab and fur to the north, I forgot to mention that earlier.
Fishing-> Sailing makes sense to me, especially with that island having another luxury on it, and the better trade routes income, which I had completely forgotten about.
Economy is definitely struggling. 2 more cities will put us very close to stalled research. I think we can recover though. Even if we are forced to keep the slider low, we can run scientists. Salsa will start working gold in 2t, but even then, I predict a sustainable rate of around 20 beakers per turn for a while.
T73 was the turn I set Quesadilla to only 1 scientist.

Superdeath is on 6 cities, and Gira is on 4. I absolutely feel like Superdeath is the primary threat, I'm sure he's going for that Iron Working ASAP.
Also, he's got a warrior 3S2E of Chile, I think he wants to put a city there. It does look like a good spot, except now our creative borders will mess him up. I'm happy if he puts a city there first and leaves spot4 alone for us.

The barb axe annihilated our warrior.

[RefSteel]

Tortilla has been founded. Shares corn with Quesadilla of course.

Heh - of course!  Thanks for the big picture shots, too!  

I just realized city 7 should really be moved 1NE (across the peak from Enchilada's cow) to avoid wasting a floodplain.  That's the simplest solution, but there's a whole other set of alternatives that are more conservative (i.e. push less against superdeath, for better and for worse) but do allow a city to share Enchilada's mine and multiple cottages in addition to the cow it plans to share already.  (It would probably have been our second city if it added resources instead of just floodplains.)  Here are the alternate dotmaps as I see them:

   

I preserved the arbitrary numbers that have nothing to do with settling order.

Economy is definitely struggling. 2 more cities will put us very close to stalled research. I think we can recover though. Even if we are forced to keep the slider low, we can run scientists. Salsa will start working gold in 2t, but even then, I predict a sustainable rate of around 20 beakers per turn for a while.

I feel like we're going to be crashing the economy pretty hard - to the point where I'm even wondering if we should settle the first GS in the capital, and push for a second GS for the Academy. (Actually if we had done more careful planning far enough in advance, we could have set up to tech other things and leave Math for a bulb at around the same time; right now, the GS would only bulb Alphabet, which wouldn't really help us.) Hopefully though, with Fishing, the gold, and more cottages, we'll be able to make it work to just build an academy as planned and use the next GS for a hopefully-well-timed golden age.

T73 was the turn I set Quesadilla to only 1 scientist.

'kay. I probably expressed this poorly when I talked about it earlier, but I wouldn't have chosen a turn when Quesadilla is building a Settler (or rather generating overflow from it) to swap from the scientist to the FP cottage; the idea would have been to take advantage of that turn for better growth. It's not awful anyway though; we can certainly use the hammers too.

Superdeath is on 6 cities, and Gira is on 4. I absolutely feel like Superdeath is the primary threat, I'm sure he's going for that Iron Working ASAP.

Very likely, yes. As mentioned, we need Construction to stop Praets properly; Horchers can help if we get HBR + Archery, and of course axes aren't nothing, but cats are really the only counter to those things. Given our economy, we may not be able to get there in time, so we may need another solution.

Also, he's got a warrior 3S2E of Chile, I think he wants to put a city there. It does look like a good spot, except now our creative borders will mess him up. I'm happy if he puts a city there first and leaves spot4 alone for us.

I'm pretty sure that warrior is just playing sentry. A city there won't be much good until Calendar, and given Plymouth Cuda's location, I'd much rather plant 1W of that warrior if I were him.

The barb axe annihilated our warrior.

RIP. That's our third loss to barbs, right? First a warrior to the Most Annoying Barb Warrior, then the chariot attacking the barb city, and now the warrior there. Hopefully the last though!