No more cities for me - not for a while now. Breakeven is now sitting at 30%, and when we start building and whipping numids its going to cost gold for the extra units as well as for the lost commerce we'll be whipping off of. Hopefully Gira's cities will give us lots of pillage gold! Work boats are on their way to both cities. Lincoln will get theirs in 2 turns, Lake in 3. Lake is going to make for an excellent Moai city; Lincoln is just going to be a basic production/fishing village.
I started libraries at Coos and Clackamas. Coos might have been able to fit a barracks in with a chop, but both cities are also very good commerce cities and I've decided I have enough barracks now. I'm unsure if I should get Stables down first or just go straight into Numids. Going up to 2 promotions will be a big boon - worth half a unit? It might be. And cities without barracks can still build the cheaper stables if it makes sense to.
I feel like I should keep this updated more, but I'm curious in seeing how PRO v FIN continues to compare. PRO continues to narrowly edge out for the time being, but I am growing a lot of cottages
PRO: +9 commerce
FIN: +8 (Fish @ Tillamook, lake @ Clatsop, Clams @ Yamhill, riverside hamlet @ Clackamas, 2x Gems, 2x clams at both new cities)
Chatting with Scooter got me curious, so I went back through all my past turns and did my best to add up how much commerce PRO has gotten me this game versus how much FIN would have gotten me. It's not perfect, because if I'm FIN then maybe I work that lake tile a few more turns - but I'd still want to grow cottages so probably not too much difference. And I also wasn't exactly sure how many turns I did work that lake tile, but you could add like 2 or 3 to the FIN column if you really wanted to be sure. I haven't worked it much, I know that.
Wow, great job on counting all of that up - doing that sort of analysis is amazing to see.
Question - Is this additional commerce from Pro - or just the trade route commerce - you jump from 0-> on turn 36 (I'm a bit lazy to scroll though right now)
I'm surprised that PRO is still keeping up with Fin at this point in game - though I expect it to change when calendar hits? Then again, island city will double the commerce to pro, as would currency.
Also, does this version of bug include the information of where your commerce comes from in F2?
"I know that Kilpatrick is a hell of a damned fool, but I want just that sort of man to command my cavalry on this expedition."
- William Tecumseh Sherman
(July 7th, 2020, 22:50)GeneralKilCavalry Wrote: Wow, great job on counting all of that up - doing that sort of analysis is amazing to see.
Question - Is this additional commerce from Pro - or just the trade route commerce - you jump from 0-> on turn 36 (I'm a bit lazy to scroll though right now)
I'm surprised that PRO is still keeping up with Fin at this point in game - though I expect it to change when calendar hits? Then again, island city will double the commerce to pro, as would currency.
The jump on t36 is connecting my first city. I finished the road on t35 and I'm not 100% sure but I believe that it doesn't actually count the commerce the turn you connect a city. Exception is if you plant the city and it can find a trade route straight away. This also shows up on t54 where I mistakenly settled Clackamas before finishing the road that would connect it and depriving myself of 2 commerce.
I knew that PRO was keeping an early lead but it surprised me just how much of a lead it had jumped out to. I do fully expect FIN to overtake PRO very soon: I'm growing a number of riverside cottages right now and once those reach hamlets they would be eligible for the FIN bonus. I would certainly expect it more around Calendar, or it may even take just one or two fishing villages growing onto coast tiles. I don't think PRO gets more of an advantage than +1 per trade route. It is additive with the other bonuses, so when I get the foreign trade routes I'll jump up to 3c each, and then again up to 4c when I get an island city. What I will want to emphasize are getting more trade routes: so Currency, Cothons, Castles - it's the C economy!
But I certainly will be keeping track of this going forward so we see when FIN surpasses PRO and then when it finally makes up the difference.
Even so, early commerce > late commerce so I am very interested in how this turns out.
Quote:Also, does this version of bug include the information of where your commerce comes from in F2?
(July 7th, 2020, 22:50)GeneralKilCavalry Wrote: Question - Is this additional commerce from Pro - or just the trade route commerce - you jump from 0-> on turn 36 (I'm a bit lazy to scroll though right now)
HBR in 4 but I am so dang close to getting it in 3. Don't think it's going to happen though. Either way it won't hurt too much because the horses are connected in 4.
Superdeath is jumping ahead in demos as he is able to continue to expand to good land. He has some nice spots to his south that nobody is going to be able to contest - if he plays his cards right. I guess you can say that I've got nice land to my south too
It looks like SD did grab Ironworking this last turn. Maybe he has some jungled tiles annoying him.
EDIT:
This turn
PRO - 9
FIN - 9 (fish, clams x3, gems x2, riverside hamlets x2, lake). I miscounted last turn; FIN had 8 tiles instead of 7 and I'll update my totals
So I'm starting to call my whole strategy in question. Given how much of a commerce lead I suspect that early PRO has given me, and allowed me to spam out to 9 cities while maintaining decent tech, I wonder if the best thing to do next would be to continue with economy? Sailing for either foreign trade routes or ICTRs, followed by Currency. Then Calendar to grow my cities upward while chopping out MoM at the capital. Then when I'm really zooming ahead I invade Gira at the time of my choosing: maces and catapults, maybe knights.
Well, that's how I might have played it another time. But then Gira had to come and declare war on me 50 turns ago and hasn't taken peace. So I can't really be assured that he won't team up with superdeath against me at some later point. And if I put superdeath in a position where he feels he can't compete economically then I know he will come at me militarily- him and Commodore do have that much in common.
Also, I'm halfway through HBR and have been building barracks over libraries/lighthouses. At this point I'm feeling rather committed to this path. Downside is that by attacking Gira I'm going to give Superdeath time to be ready for an attack on him later. So perhaps it's better not to attack SD and instead keep him bottled? Dangerous for later on the game, as I would certainly have to worry about a two-front war later on. I think it's better to assess after Gira is dead/dying and see if Superdeath is still vulnerable & I'm capable to continue attacking.
Either way, there is a peaceful builder in me that is screaming at me for throwing away all these economic advantages. Let's shut him up with some nice conquests, eh?
We'll keep heading east, see what is beyond. Though I do want to make a scout now that everyone's borders have met and the risk of barbs killing said scout is less.
Because everyone is certainly scouting out my land.
Everyone except for Gira. This is what you get for not taking all those peace offers I gave you, Gira. That and all the trade routes I'm assuredly gifting my neighbors (and will hopefully grab myself here in 6-8 turns).
I'd offer Gira peace again, except we're now within 10 turns for when I'm going to invade. I thought about it a few turns ago but he's already declined every offer before - and I just don't want to bother with him any more.
Working out just what we'll be able to whip & chop up to invade with.
PRO v FIN: This Turn (Total)
PRO: 9 (221)
FIN: 8 (133)
Swapped off the clam at Lake because the Stone there is newly quarried.
(July 9th, 2020, 10:46)Commodore Wrote: Curious side question, how would ORG have done vs. PRO/FIN at this point?