[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

LP's tech rate is much better than India's.
He is half CRE now plus religion, so grab some land wouldn't be a problem for him.
He has friendly neighbours on both sides, so could concentrate resources on wonders instead of units.
Once hes ready to fight expences with advanced economic techs or wonders, he'll expand fast.
I'm not sure what the last whip by him was about, but it could be library or settler.

India has some potential too. But right now their economy is a mess with big maintenance and heavy whipped cities.
Lot of angry citizens also.
As I said, once they put granaries and forges online, spread religion a bit, research some basic techs like AH and writing -- that could be a different story.

We are need trade routes commerce fast ourself. And auto spread religion would be nice.
I'm not sure how fast we could establish trade routes with LP. We probably could establish trade routes with India on T71.
Sadly, we need them more than they need us. They already has TR with Asterix's 4 cities.
And I'm not sure Yuufo agree to trade without some NAP, but we'll see.

Yes, southern part of land needs more scouting. And there should be our furs somethere, right?
Once game is up, lets try to dotmap that area.

[DMOC]

LP's tech rate is better than Care BEars, but so are Asterix's and SutOxy's tech rates, I'd bet.

So what are we sending to Care Bears? Want to send what we did above, but propose a shorter NAP, e.g. to turn 100?

[DMOC]

Do we want to send this message instead? Shorter NAP (for more flexibility), plus allowing us to settle further east in the south. We weren't going to settle east of Cheer in the north anyway, and a war is simply not in the cards right now. And India definitely won't accept any agreement without an NAP.

Dear Care Bears,

Your proposed deal seems like it wsa crafted with equity in mind --- which we commend you for that --- but we would still like to suggest some minor modifications. One is that we would prefer a slightly shorter NAP; we are generally wary of signing long NAPs, as can be justified by seeing the history of NAPs at Realms Beyond Pitboss games. How does an NAP to turn 100 sound? It's still long enough that neither of us should have to worry about a war.

The second modification we hope to have is a revision of the border agreement. The main reason is that Cheer is further away from your capital than Cornell is from our capital, so the deal is slightly in your favor. Still, we realize that we won't be able to comfortably place a city east of Cornell in the north (not to mention it would put undue culture pressure on your cities -- we don't want to antagonize you by placing three cities three tiles from one of your cities, after all!), so we can agree to your old border agreement as it pertains to the area north of Cornell. However, there might be a few halfway-decent city spots south of Cornell, so we kindly ask that we are allowed to settle up to 3 tiles east of Cornell, as long as the city we're founding is south of Cornell. This deal should still favor your team, since the quality of land up north is better than the south, so hopefully you will find this amenable.

As far as the agreement goes about your worker and our fog-busting warrior, we can still do that. We are eager to establish trade routes immediately to help our civilization.

In short, our re-proposed deal is as follows:

-NAP to turn 100
-Open Borders
-You road the cows plus the tile 9 of it to connect our cities; we will fogbust your city east of Cornell.
-You don't settle west of Cheer; we don't settle east of Cornell in the north and at most 3 tiles east of Cornell in the south.

Let's continue to stay in touch regarding plans such as possibly resource deals, city settlements, and wonder plans. As a kind gesture, we'll let you know that we're planning on founding our sixth city south of our capital, so it shouldn't affect your cities in the near-term.

Sincerely,
DMOC of Team EggHeads

[TeddyKGB]

Good message. Maybe we should send your previous message first to see their reaction?
Although, its another 1-2 days of negotiations more.

Maybe some elaborations in last message:

(1) OB. Do we want to add no-scouting clause? Their worker is allowed to enter our borders on T70 or T71.
Do we want mention OB stays open for the lenght of NAP? I doubt they want to close borders with us before we do, but its possible.

(2) Borders Agreement. How about: "You don't settle west of Cheer in the north area and west of new city (2E of stone) in the south area; ... We'll negotiate exact cities placement in the south once area is full scouted."

Another options for later discussion:
- Do we want to trade units? How about 5*chariot for 3*settler? Could be like 2vs1, 1vs1 and 2vs1 on certain turns. This trade has some pluses and minuses for us.
- We are fogbusting for them now, how about they spare 1-2 units to spawnbust south area as well?
- Anything else?

[DMOC]

Some good points you bring up, Teddy.

I'm not sure we need a no-scouting clause. In fact, it seems like we might benefit more from having scouts in their territory. This is the only game I'm playing so I have plenty of time to look at their cities in detail once my midterms finish up, and I'm not sure how much time Yuufo, etc. will dedicate to scouting us carefully if they're also taking part in the ISDG.

I sent this message below, as I promised that we'd get back to them by now.

Dear Care Bears,

Your proposed deal seems like it wsa crafted with equity in mind --- which we commend you for that --- but we would still like to suggest some minor modifications. One is that we would prefer a slightly shorter NAP; we are generally wary of signing long NAPs, as can be justified by seeing the history of NAPs at previous Realms Beyond Pitboss games. How does an NAP to turn 100 sound, instead of turn 115? It's still long enough that neither of us should have to worry about a war.

The second modification we hope to have is a revision of the border agreement. The main reason is that Cheer is much closer to our capital than Cornell is to your capital, so your proposed deal is slightly in your favor. Still, we concede that we won't be able to comfortably place a city east of Cornell in the north (not to mention it would put undue culture pressure on your cities -- we don't want to antagonize you by placing three cities three tiles from one of your cities, after all!), so we can agree to your old border agreement as it pertains to the area north of Cornell.

However, there might be a few halfway-decent city spots south of Cornell, so we kindly ask that we are allowed to settle up to 3 tiles east of Cornell, as long as the city we're founding is south of Cornell. In addition, we request that you don't settle west of your projected city two tiles east of the stone. This would only apply to cities to the south, of course -- let's use the stone as the benchmark; north of the stone, feel free to do whatever you want with regards to city placement, as long as it respects the other aspects of the border agreement.

This revised deal should still favor your team, since our preliminary exploration indicates that the quality of land up north is better than the south. Thus, we hope you will be satisfied with such a deal.

As far as the agreement goes about your worker and our fog-busting warrior, we can still do that. We are eager to establish trade routes immediately to help our civilizations.

In short, our re-proposed deal is as follows:

-NAP to turn 100
-Open Borders for the duration of the NAP
-You road the cows plus the tile 9 of it to connect our cities; we will fogbust your city east of Cornell.
-You don't settle west of Cheer, and in the south (i.e. anything below the stone) you don't settle west of your (future) stone city; in return, we don't settle east of Cornell in the north and will settle at most 3 tiles east of Cornell in the south.

Let's continue to stay in touch regarding plans such as possibly resource deals, city settlements, and wonder plans. As a kind gesture, we'll let you know that we're planning on founding our sixth city south of our capital, so it shouldn't affect your cities in the near-term. Also, let us know if you're willing to participate in some "hammer exchanges." For instance, we can trade you some number of chariots in exchange for some number of settlers.

Sincerely,
DMOC of Team EggHeads

-----

This proposed deal, if they accept, would let us settle a city 6-3 of the corn in the south, which seems interesting since it's surrounded by mountains. Otherwise, the land does seem pretty bad (aside from the corn and grasslands, which should be ours anyway) so they should still be fine with this deal.

Other Stuff

We might as well discuss now where we expect to place city 6 (we must definitely do so after the chariot moves on the silver). Do we want it north of the silver, or northwest? One possible advantage to a city in the northwest are the two extra forests we'd get; for a city that's going to be production starved, having forests can help jump-start it. We can try and come up with different plans for each location.

Either way, do you think it would be best to start with a Granary or a Lighthouse in that sixth city? A granary gives us faster growth, but a lighthouse gives us the very nice 3 f 2 c tiles from the capital's lake -- nice tiles when compared to the alternatives of tundra and ice deer! EDIT: Nope, never mind.

By the way, what do we expect to do with the chariot coming out of Stanford and the barbarian warrior that's approaching?

[TeddyKGB]

India respond:

Hi
Sounds rather good. Please dont settle too near from our horse-sheep city though. I dont want to wage a culture war there. The stones will already fall in your culture without compensation for us.
About NAP do you know about self extending Naps? Instead of having a fixed termination date they have a fixed duration like 10 turns. The nap lasts as long as neither team cancels it and 10 turns are counted after cancellation before war is possible, giving the other team time to prepare itself. Would you be interested in such a thing? Nap till 100 and then nap10?
About further trade we are open to discussion even though we have no brilliant idea for now.
Take care
The care bears

About city#6 spot.
Still not sure its better to ignore Crab. Need maybe more workers into city#6. I was planning only 2 workers to improve and connect silver fast, maybe if we dispatch 3 of them, Crab site could be connected to Empire fast.
Plant on your original sign could be less expansive. More forest to chop always a nice thing.
LightHouse wont help us to get 3/0/2 tiles on the salt lake.
Right now I can see 2 options:
(1) City#6 NW of Silver on T75.
(2) City#6 NE of Silver on T76.

About barb warrior.
I guess we should put new chariot on top of a worker if barb moved toward worker next turn. It'll give us 99.1% odds to win instead 78.3%+2.2% if we attack warrior on the forested tile.

MIT.
I set it up on Worker. Next turn we could whip it and 1turn Axe after. Or we could put overflow into Settler.
We could slowbuild worker in MIT in 4 turns, but I was planning to use that worker to fast improve silver.

UC.
I was thinking of delay workboat a bit, cause we pay for units too much already.
Maybe fast grow to size6 and slave settler for fish site. Or start settler at size5 and chop/whip settler.
Anyway, we'll need a unit for garrison duty there soon.

Back to diplo.
Should talk to Asterix about or NAP with India. I'll sent him short msg.

[TeddyKGB]

Asterix not happy, as you can imagine.
I don't think we betray him, and I'm sure India wants NAP with MM too.
But, as I understand, no deal sign with India yet.

Hi,

I thought that our agreement was we would no negotiate NAP with India on our own? That was why I dropped it once you contacted me. What if they would not offer us any NAP?

Anyway, can we chat soon? We have learnt very interesting info from OxySut and Orgy Nized.

Asterix

[DMOC]

Okay, I'm starting to get a little confused about Asterix. First, he's warning us about Lord Parkin bullying SutOxy to ally with them and mentioning about Maga_R being busy. And now he's telling us that LP's playing around with the three of us? And the "mortal danger" reference?

He's still the natural ally in the game, but I'm just starting to get wary of him. Right now we have a NAP until turn 90, and I'd be fine with extending it to something like Turn 120-ish, but I really would not like anything beyond that.

How should we respond? Even if what he's saying is complete nonsense, I'm still interested in seeing if he knows something about Parkin/Orgynized that might be of interest...

By the way, I'm just curious about how Maga_R and Asterix knew each other, or how they went about the process of replacing players. Seems like Maga_R just disappeared for no reason without mentioning why she was busy ... which is a bit odd for someone who was so invested at the start of the game.

Hi,

cannot talk at the moment, but i think I have a proof Orgy Nized are plotting against all 3 of us. Do not extend NAP with Orgy Nized no matter what and try to make OxSuttree not to extend NAP with Orgy Nized, too.

As I said, what I wanted to tell you is very confidential and can put us in mortal danger if leaked. So before e talk, I wuld like to revisit our NAP. So far it is only till T90, your NAP with India may be soon longer and probably your NAP withOrgy Nized is also longer now.

I understand that it may be difficult to talk about specific turns, but we understand we are allies at least until we will deal with India and Orgy Nized?

So we formally propose a NAP between our civs lasting until India and Orgy Nized (Netherlands) are in game, with possibility of extension. We hope that we will have no problem with accepting it. Once this issue is out of the way, we will tell you very concerning info about Orgy Nized plotting we have just learnt.

Regards,

Asterix on behalf of M&L

[TeddyKGB]

I don't know, maybe LP building army of warriors and planning coquest 'all 3 of us' by the T100?

Obv, LP will play to win and use every little possibility including diplo.
He basicly ignore us for now, but LP and OS stay in closer contact, I guess. Once I login in game, several turns ago, while LP and OS were in. OS put some words in global chat, like "nice talking with u, cu soon" or something.
Sut not talking very much with me about LP.
I don't know how LP see best diplo configuration for him, but India and us fighting would be nice for LP as long neither of us could win.
I believe LP told us already he is concerned about India and willing to help. I bet, once he contact CareBears, he'll tell the same thing about us.

About Asterix. I did mention to him many times that we are natural allies. Formal NAP won't make you stronger allies, situation on the map do.
Sure, T120 NAP, ok. He did mention MM and OS has NAP T135.

I doubt Maga and Asterix is the same person, but it could be.
And let's not forget, Ichabod wanted to join MM team. Not sure he is helping them right now, tho.

[TeddyKGB]

How about this?

Hello Asterix,

I understand your concern about NAP, but as I told you, both our teams are natural allies. Thats dictates by the map.

We are offering extending our NAP untill T120.

We could start negotiate further extension early, like before T100, when game evolved and teams progress will be more visible.
In any case, we should plan our strategy toward India together.

Also, both our teams already agreed on non disclosure deal.
All info you tell us is confidential.

If you interested, our NAP with LP will ended on T90.
As DMOC told you, we just don't like the idea of long NAPs in general. Especially with our neighbours.
Could you tell us how long your NAP with LP at the moment?

TeddyKGB and DMOC of EggHeads.

Just a draft, didn't sent it. You can edit it and send, if you like.