WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Meiz]

And I've used the lack of town tells argument several times before, btw.

[novice]

This is of course just guessing, but I think your wolf plan was to vote Tasunke when it was safe, but move your vote later on BRick or Molach. Tasunke ignored your question on his Gaspar vote and yet you voted away from him just as the pressure was real. It's just scummy, I think villager novice would have waited for Tasunke to respond something concrete.

He did respond:

Are you kidding!? His play was SOOO scummy. I mean, who in the Hell has the time to learn to speak Italian just for the sake of this game!?

Even IF he used google translate, thats STILL a lot of work just for RP. and your saying that ISNT a wolf tell? Jesus christ ...

and FOR THE LAST TIME I'm on both Gaspar AND Meiz. And that flug/Meiz/Gaspar post ... totally out of context imho. I said flug looked scummy yes, but two seconds later I said that I thought it was a set up, and I NEVER voted for him. I was only voicing what eVERYONE was thinking ... that he WAS suspicious sounding, but that he COULDN"T be Scum because it was TOO obvious ... or did you not read that part? God, maybe I just need public forum typing 101 or something, jeezus. If I can't get THAT point across, then what good am I as a villager, eh?

I'm well aware that there is probably a survivalist/traitor or a serial killer out there somewhere, and I'm looking into who they could be ... really don't have any leads right now BUT ... I was pretty sure that the scum were trying to set up Flug (thanks Uber for confirming just one coordinating pack ... now we need to find the serial killer).

Still, I think we could find some of the scum in the Flug voters. For now, I honestly don't remember who voted Flug. All I remember is that I got a feeling, an intuition, that Gaspar and Meiz were working together. I think that feeling is correct, and so what you think I'm wrong? Then fine! Hang me for it, but it won't get you any closer to finding the wolves OR the serial killer.

I didn't think we were going to get anything else from him.

I don't think I could have put a distancing vote on Tasunke and he would reply with the post above. That just doesn't fit.

If you wanted to pressure BRick, you would have timed the vote on the post where there's something you accuse him of. Seems like you were in a hurry as Tasunke gathered votes.

I was, as I explained I wanted to get my case on BRick out before the whole day just devolved into waiting for Tasunke to hang.

What's wrong with using lack of villager posts as a reason to suspect someone?

Nothing wrong with that, I just didn't expect it from you. You usually have scum tells to follow instead. You rectified that afterwards though by bringing up my BRick vote, which I can understand looks shady.

[Qgqqqqq]

What the f**k solace?
Yes I do think that, I think you made a mistake as scum.
In my experience (both as scum and in reading qt) they never hold your hands while you make posts.
You made a scummy play andyour defence is basically "ah yes it was scummy but if I was scum I wouldn't act scummy "
Seriously What. The. Fuck .

The rest of your post reads like a confession, though I'm sure you don't mean it that way.
Can you stop explaining out of game stuff and actually talk about the game?!?

[Meiz]

This is of course just guessing, but I think your wolf plan was to vote Tasunke when it was safe, but move your vote later on BRick or Molach. Tasunke ignored your question on his Gaspar vote and yet you voted away from him just as the pressure was real. It's just scummy, I think villager novice would have waited for Tasunke to respond something concrete.

He did respond:

Are you kidding!? His play was SOOO scummy. I mean, who in the Hell has the time to learn to speak Italian just for the sake of this game!?

Even IF he used google translate, thats STILL a lot of work just for RP. and your saying that ISNT a wolf tell? Jesus christ ...

and FOR THE LAST TIME I'm on both Gaspar AND Meiz. And that flug/Meiz/Gaspar post ... totally out of context imho. I said flug looked scummy yes, but two seconds later I said that I thought it was a set up, and I NEVER voted for him. I was only voicing what eVERYONE was thinking ... that he WAS suspicious sounding, but that he COULDN"T be Scum because it was TOO obvious ... or did you not read that part? God, maybe I just need public forum typing 101 or something, jeezus. If I can't get THAT point across, then what good am I as a villager, eh?

I'm well aware that there is probably a survivalist/traitor or a serial killer out there somewhere, and I'm looking into who they could be ... really don't have any leads right now BUT ... I was pretty sure that the scum were trying to set up Flug (thanks Uber for confirming just one coordinating pack ... now we need to find the serial killer).

Still, I think we could find some of the scum in the Flug voters. For now, I honestly don't remember who voted Flug. All I remember is that I got a feeling, an intuition, that Gaspar and Meiz were working together. I think that feeling is correct, and so what you think I'm wrong? Then fine! Hang me for it, but it won't get you any closer to finding the wolves OR the serial killer.

I didn't think we were going to get anything else from him.

I don't think I could have put a distancing vote on Tasunke and he would reply with the post above. That just doesn't fit.

For the first part, it doesn't make much sense to accept that answer from him, because you don't think getting anything else from him. That post gives even more reason to continue the pressure.

Secondly on the fitting. Only if you planned the exact wordings of the exchange on the wolf topic, which happens almost never. He's still Tasunke, even as a wolf. The reply is so over the top that I could see Tasunke attempting more distancing, like with Gaspar.

[Lewwyn]

I didn't suspect you day 1 novice, but Day 2 has just been super scummy. Looking back on Day 1 in conjunction with today looks bad too.

The thing I'm not clear on is if you were so sure that Ichabod was innocent Day 1, and now you're voting for him today. Why did you have him in your village list when you did a big list of everyone alive? And then why soon after did you vote Ichabod? Your reason for voting Ichabod is:

Yeah you said clearly that you didn't find him[Gaz] suspicious anymore. What I'm wondering though is what you found so condemning at the time that you stated boldly that you would get him lynched for it on day 2.

That's it. That's all I can find about why you voted for Ichabod after defending him Day 1 and then putting him in your village list.

See its that + the Tas voting that feels so wrong to me.

[novice]

I didn't suspect you day 1 novice, but Day 2 has just been super scummy. Looking back on Day 1 in conjunction with today looks bad too.

The thing I'm not clear on is if you were so sure that Ichabod was innocent Day 1, and now you're voting for him today. Why did you have him in your village list when you did a big list of everyone alive? And then why soon after did you vote Ichabod? Your reason for voting Ichabod is:

Yeah you said clearly that you didn't find him[Gaz] suspicious anymore. What I'm wondering though is what you found so condemning at the time that you stated boldly that you would get him lynched for it on day 2.

That's it. That's all I can find about why you voted for Ichabod after defending him Day 1 and then putting him in your village list.

See its that + the Tas voting that feels so wrong to me.

Well I want Ichabod to answer that question, and I figured I could put my vote on him while I was sleeping to encourage him to do that. Ichabod just crazyeyed away my question though. Like I told Bigger I wasn't sure where to put my vote so I wanted to see what happened.

Lesson learned: I should stop doing things on impulse that I should realize would be construed as scummy. I'll try to remember that until next game.

Don't you want to hear Ichabod's answer to my question, btw?

[novice]

Lewwyn, Meiz, et.al: Assuming I'm innocent, who are your other suspects?

[Meiz]

Quickly thinking Molach & Gaius

[Serdoa]

Novice makes not much sense as scum imo. I don't like his play, but I can't believe he would unvote Tasunke after that post if he were scum. What I've seen in scum-threads is that they tell you to defend yourself. But if you suck at it, they will tell you afterwards "Well, sorry, but I can't move away from you, that would look really bad if you get lynched.". Thats what I would expect novice to tell Tasunke in that situation. If others moved first, then I could see it.

Also, as much as I come around to like Tasunke, he is so easily going down that it would be just dumb as wolf to try to save him. Bus him as soon as he gets widely suspected. And he did get suspected enough. It might be desperation because they lost 2 wolves already, but I don't believe that, novice is to pragmatic for that imo.

[Ichabod]

Cross-Post Add: Ichabod, I'd like your input on the spoilered part now. Too much tin foil hat?

Well, Pindicator, I don't think it's too much tinfoil hat. I was voting Meiz for a while and my only motivation was his vig shot on Tasunke.

I find your question, interesting, though, because of your next post:

I REALLY don't think a scum will day vig another scum. I think the idea that Meiz is scum is ridiculous (Unless he is SK). I mean buss them, sure, that way you at least waste a lynch and a day. But to just kill scum just like that in the middle of the day, early even, and allow the village more time to regroup, reevaluate and make an even better informed lynch decision? That's hugely pro-town.

Thanks, this post was worth using one of mine.

I hadn't been able to decide about you Lewwyn, and the novice line of thinking did have me suspecting you a little bit. Because in absence of good scum tells I think it really is a good tool, to go back and see who has the best town tells and then work backwards. That's how I got onto the wolves, you included, in WW# whatever-the-one-that-Brick-GMed-that-lasted-12-days-was.

But your responses here make me think town. I can't see scum not being able to bite on this: either by calling me nuts or by agreeing with me.

So I wonder if you just made all those Meiz comments on the previous post to see if I was going to call you nuts or agree with you. In other words, I think you didn't suspect Meiz, you were just trying to set me up. I really don't feel you really suspecting Meiz there, to be fair.

Am I right about this? I'll have to reason if this is a scum hunting attempt or a framing villager attempt.

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Stay awhile and listen
I really have difficulties to see the Bigger case right here. Not to mention that lynching someone becaus ehe might or might not be a SK which might or might not even exist is not the best way. Yes the deathc of Gaspar does make the existance of a SK very probable but still we don't know it assured. But we do know that there are evil players so our time is far better spent hunting them.

Some Questions:

@Pindi: If I understand you right you have Bigger in the village-camp but vote for him because he might be the SK. Really?

@Azza: After the easy Molach-vote now a jump on a forming Bigger-waggon. I don't like that.

@Jkaen: Didn't you regain your memory meanwhile? So what are you? village or scum?

@Ichabod Do you know anything about the memory your master regained?

I know nothing about Jkaens powers, memories, alignment. Every time he wakes up he's a different man.

By the way, who do you suspect, Rowain? I can't really remember.

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Eh, Ichabod can have my vote for his Gazglum antics.

Well, I reread the thread and Gazglum didn't sound that suspicious anymore. I thought I made myself clear in that point.

Crazy novice .

Yeah you said clearly that you didn't find him suspicious anymore. What I'm wondering though is what you found so condemning at the time that you stated boldly that you would get him lynched for it on day 2.

I concluded in my head that, if gazglum voted for me, he was scum. Then he made some preparation posts and voted for me on deadline. It seemed pretty damning at the time, because "I was right". When I reread things, it didn't seem so good anymore.

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Just to point out: I'll keep voting in a scattershot way and I won't show you all my lines of reasoning. I mostly play WW by gut, for good or bad, and I don't feel the need to create cases that I don't believe in. My obligation with the village is to vote and to try to not get mislynched, if that's not going to beneficial. I'm already doing these. Just because people think there's a right way to play this, I don't have to agree.

I also dislike being mocked about my use of prepositions, by the way.

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I can't see Molach being a bad guy after some of gaspar's posts yesterday. I don't think Novice would expose himself that much if he was scum. I think Pindicator is a valid target to lynch. GaiusMarius too. If GM is lynched, we'll have a good read on Gazglum, which is nice. I'd vote Bigger if it comes to Bigger and Novice. I haven't forgotten Meiz, but he can get some more time.

I want to hear more from Serdoa and Rowain. Lynch targets.