This is gonna be good: von Adlercreutz and Taotao

[taotao]

Turn rolled.
I won't have time to play until tomorrow at the earliest, but had a quick peek at lunch and have a few things I can report on.

Donovan took peace.
Smart choice by him. Afterwards he started moving units to the north though which kind of makes me suspicious about what might be up. Is Borsche planning an attack? I don't mind him taking land from Donovan, but I'm a bit afraid he's just weakening himself before REM comes crashing in. Or is it REM that is eyeing up DZ as a conquest? It could stretch him quite badly, but there are still a few turns before our peace expires, so help wouldn't arrive immediately and in case of war with REM I certainly have other fronts to worry about as well.


REM can now build/upgrade destroyers.
I repeat, REM has access to destroyers.
He's also showing 1t to Communism (probably without beakers invested so he he could still switch after I've played my turn, but still).
I take this as a sign that REM isn't all that comfortable with a race to space anymore and is looking to settle things on earth instead!
So, most likely civics from him in a few turns? Vassalage, Kremlin powered Slavery, State Property and Theocracy? Will he run Universal Suffrage or go all in with Police State??
(It might just be that he wants kremlin rush buys and free market, but let's assume the worst shall we?)

The good thing about peace with DZ now is that I should be able to get some extra troops over to the islands before REM is allowed to declare. I'm afraid that REM will have naval superiority in the south for a while until I've assembled enough Battleships and deployed them in decent positions. Especially if he's willing to do the expensive frigate->destroyer upgrade.
As for this turn I could decide to finish Combustion myself. It requires quite a lot of research/wealth builds though, so I'll have to consider whether I'd be better of researching Combustion in 2t and getting lots of overflow from cheaper units this turn.

Rem is also otherwise being super annoying. Last turn he sent out 4 privateers to blockade my coast and nearly caused a few cities to starve. As he's taken the second position in a turn split there's not much I can do to stop this. I can kill his privateers sure, but then he can just decide to send new ones as I'd basically need to cover every water tile close to one of my cities with a better boat in order to make the blockade ineffective.

As this is my thread I'm going to whine a lil' bit, sensitive viewers can cover their eyes.
Generally it feels like REM is very aware of what part of the turn split is favourable and is doing his utmost to be in that part.
First he was playing late so that he'd be able to whip in case of war.
Then when we were racing for island spots he played very early (beating me to 4-5 locations by virtue of turn order).
Then airships happened and again he played early.
Now we're at enforced peace and blockades become much better if you're playing second... (+ possibility to switch tech route for ktb and surprise reasons)
None of these things are cheating or even strictly against the spirit of the game. To some extent one could argue that I've been after the same advantages as well. It's just that I'm interpreting these things as happening time and time again and it's starting to get under my skin...


Speaking of threats and Combustion I might air a little idea I've been considering.
I've been thinking about trading oil to Gav (for fur or whatever market happy it was that obsoletes with oil).
This way he could skip railroad-combustion and go straight to artillery for his own navy (that could challenge REM).
In theory it sounds good. In practise I'm a bit afraid though that if it looks like I'm ahead of REM, Gav will simply use his bigger-than-it-otherwise-would-be-navy to go wreck me instead
Also, if I offer Gav oil I probably need to offer it to dtay as well (or suffer his wrath). And with dtay really having a long naval border with me... I mean, my take on the situation is that he wouldn't attack, but what if I'm reading things wrong??

[taotao]

Johan, or Jean as he preferred to be called, had recently moved in to the big city.

His father, the military doctor, hadn’t been too pleased when he first heard where he was going:
“Alavo? That place which is just full of billowing smoke and newly-rich people wasting their fortunes on temporate pleasures. If you’re anyways leaving, then go to Oravais and get a proper education!”

Jean liked Alavo though.
Oravais was a thing of the past, old and dusted, while Alavo was a vibrant place where the ever-present song of the modern factories worked night and day for the advancement of the people.

On his Sunday off, Jean had now decided to pay visit to this new district in town which had created no end of a buzz amongst his more artistically inclined friends. Just a couple of streets left and he gets to turn a corner and see:

Broadway.

[Rowain]

and grats

[taotao]

t199
Initially I didn’t plan to do a report on t199, but then I didn’t expect that the turn I played a week ago would would still be going on when I came back either…

I decided on t198 that getting access to battleships would be worth almost any effort and so for a while I even had a gnp of over 10,000. Later on I dialed back some research/wealth builds and landed on this:

I tried to take into account a potential increase in inflation and some REM privateer action (both things which I believe happened), but one could argue that I perhaps was cutting it a bit close as next time I opened the game things looked like this:

That’s 14g in the bank…
And yes, that’s Gav suggesting I should give him oil.
In the end I decided to… accept.
My hope is that Gav will see us as ”natural allies” and me hopefully taking the lead in the game won’t change that...


As it turned out, that previously mentioned communism research from REM seems to have been merely a feint. Instead he’s heading for medicine (?)
That’s an unorthodox path for a spaceship, but I guess that if he for instance wants to land in vassalage instead of environmentalism, then he could really use the health…
Edit: Just checked and Medicine is a really cheap tech. Like less than 1t of full science cheap. He might use it as a means of overflowing lots into for instance flight...

Otherwise it was a pretty quiet turn where I killed off a few REM privateers and queued up lots of battleships/tanks and generally started some unit logistics to be close to REMs borders when the peace treaty expires.

Newbie question:
Let's say I was inspired by Fenns qotm and wanted to attack REM as soon as possible. Can I attack on t203 or t204? We made peace on t193...

[Dreylin]

Newbie question:
Let's say I was inspired by Fenns qotm and wanted to attack REM as soon as possible. Can I attack on t203 or t204? We made peace on t193...

I always (always) have to do it laboriously with reference to the "Active" Foreign advisor screen and manually count the turn progressions. But, if the deal was signed on t193, then on that turn you were "10t to cancel", t194 you were "9t to cancel", so on t202 you should be "1t to cancel" and then can declare on t203.

[gsorel]

[taotao]

Newbie question:
Let's say I was inspired by Fenns qotm and wanted to attack REM as soon as possible. Can I attack on t203 or t204? We made peace on t193...

I always (always) have to do it laboriously with reference to the "Active" Foreign advisor screen and manually count the turn progressions. But, if the deal was signed on t193, then on that turn you were "10t to cancel", t194 you were "9t to cancel", so on t202 you should be "1t to cancel" and then can declare on t203.

Thanks!
I had a feeling it would be t203, but then that feels like it's only a 9t peace treaty in reality so I had started to hesitate.
Your explanation of 10t left on peace treaty when it's signed does make some kind of sense though.

[taotao]

T200 Rankings

1. ReallyEvilMuffin (org/imp of Russia) # 1-3-10-15. 61 cities
Starting next to Commodore isn’t really anyones daydream, but getting 3 5+ food sources and two grass golds in the capital can slightly make up for such things . Used his imperialistic trait for some aggressive settling and then switched gears to take out Commodore in the age of horse archers and swords. Managed the conquest well, but got himself in something of an economic hole that he took a while to recover from. With my incomplete knowledge I believe he probably could’ve done quite a bit better if he had switched into representation (captured mids from Commodore) earlier. Also ate a turn of anarchy for Bureaucracy, so perhaps he simply should have generated his 1-GP-GA for those two switches?
At this stage REM probably was the largest nation in game (not sure about Krill), but still behind us in potential and tech. An attack from Cheater Hater, however, made me use up a fair amount of my economic lead and REM snagged the chance of bagging liberalism and the economics merchant. At some point, here already weak Elkad was attacked by NylesStandish and REM had an easy job of waltzing in and capturing most of the lands.
Compared to us REM was late to Astronomy, but in an international sense he was third (or possibly fourth) to get there. I had already taken the small island closest to our cores, but up north from Commodore lands he still had islands and that is where we currently face off against each other.
In the early days REM had the biggest military for quite some time, but since then he’s generally been running fairly low on military. This has been possible since he’s had a compact mostly-1-continent-empire, he’s had the arguably best unique unit for the circumstances and either weak (Boak, Borsche) or friendly (me) neighbours.
That’s also one of the reasons of my last war declaration. Force him to build units instead of mainly research/wealth.

Going forward:
REM has the global tech lead. Large part of that are in non-essential techs for the space race though where he and I are on fairly equal terms. Pentagon and Statue of Liberty along with one great hammer city gives him a slight edge, but I’d say that I’ve got more decently productive cities. My current guess is that REM isn’t feeling all that comfortable in his current situation though and at some point he’ll launch an attack in order to grab enough cities from me for me to concede. Well, I guess we’ll just have to see about that who will be attacking who…

2. Gavagai (org/ind of Mali) # 3-1-3-4. 67 cities
Gavagai the warlord has been embroiled in one war or another about as long as I can remember. For all his warring though he hasn’t got that much to show for it though. His land might be more defensible than mine, but to my surprise we’re pretty much spot on even when it comes to number of cities.

Going forward:
I expect a late game surge from Gavagai with cities coming out of revolt, ktb, his organized trait and his two great shrines all pulling their weight to make him catch up against the current tech leaders. On his own I don’t believe that that would be enough for him to have a shot at the space race though. He needs me and REM to cripple each other. Which might happen. He might have reasons for revenge against REM, but I’m afraid REM would have to be slightly more in the lead than he currently is for Gav to act on it. Being a person that might actually take a stab at the game leader I’m also not altogether sure that it’s in my best interest to work up too clear a lead on REM, however strange that may sound.

3. Dtay (ind/imp of Sumeria) # 2-2-1-1. 71 cities
It’s almost uncanny how dtay manage to grab a lead early on in the games, but later fades for one reason or another. Here he grabbed a quick Stonehenge coupled with perhaps the best early expansion. He built on that with a conquest of Automated Teller, was second to astronomy (and one of the two best at grabbing off shore settlements) and followed up with another nice conquest of Ichabod. Stellar play all of it, but still not quite enough by the look of things. His ”Temptation Island” holdings are likely to mature a lot with time, but I’m still doubtful of him managing to keep up with the three organized civs ahead of him.

Going forward:
I wonder if dtay considers his position as unwinnable or simply unlikely to win? If its the former I believe our relationship is very stable, to the point where I almost don’t have to worry about putting up any defenses towards his direction at all. If it’s the latter, however, there might still come a time where a too lightly reinforced western border (or my two temptation island holdings) might still be subject to opportunistic attack. However, the one most likely to suffer the wrath of dtay is undoubtedly Gavagai, and I’d be seriously surprised if dtay wouldn’t make something happen in that direction before the game is over.

4. Barteq (agg/pro of Aztecs) # 5-12-13-10. 40 cities
When Gavagai made his first attack against Boak, who stepped up to make sure Gav didn’t snowball away if not Barteq. Still, being in a tough neighborhood and not making any major gains until recently, Barteq has fallen a bit behind technologically (like most of the other continent) and he’s had to use both his traits and his unique building to full extent to keep looking unappetizing.

Going forward:
Barteq doesn’t have a shot at winning this thing. However, it’d also take something of a miracle for him not to survive until the end. If he had reached his current size somewhat earlier he might have had a shot at greatness, but still its some very respectable play he’s shown hereto. Optimal scenario from my point of view would probably be if Barteq tried to grab some off shore land to his west, but from here on I’d say that it’s much more likely he’ll be stuck in a mindset of hit-end-turn.

5. Borsche (fin/cha of Vikings) # 8-9-16-16. 21 cities
The other guy who’s relatively small at the moment, but still feels safe in surviving is Borsche. Disinterested from the start, Borsche didn’t really hit the ground running in this game. Still, when Elkad collapsed he was there to vulture some spoils and when Yuri underbuilt military Borsche was there to capitalize. His border with REM might be a slight worry, but he’s stretching far enough away from that menace not to look like a nation he’d that REM would want to swallow whole.

Going forward:
Vikings has so far been a void civ for Borsche. If he feels like rectifying that oversight he’s got both Donovan and dtays island within potential reach. More likely though he’ll keep to himself unless provoked, but for instance if I launched a proper attack against DZ Borsche might just lend a hand and take a couple of cities for himself. He probably also want to start thinking about a counter to airships and cossacks if REM would like to exercise his ”obsolete” units.

6. Plako (phi/cre of Germany) # 7-6-4-2. 35 cities
Plako wasn’t conquered early on this time either, quelle surprise! He didn’t manage to grab enough land early on either though. I guess plako really was a person that would’ve needed to bulb astronomy in order to let great lighthouse off shore settlements bring him back into contention. Sadly for plako that didn’t happen and though he’s recently grabbed himself some decent real estate his position against REM and current huge tech deficit makes him extremely vulnerable to further conflict.

Going forward:
Plako needs to watch his back against REM. Like seriously. On the other border either one of Borsche and Plako could consider an attack, but while Borsche probably could afford it Plako certainly can’t, at least not unless I engage REM in a major combat.

7. Donovan Zoi (fin/pro of England) # 4-8-6-6. 19 cities
Early on I said that Serdoas (and NHs) chances would be highly reliant on his ability to keep focus and interest in the game. Well, I wonder if if it was the fish start or something else, but initial expansion was quite dubious compared to what I would’ve expected from this player. Somehow, in spite of a slow expansion, he still managed to claim more land on the initial continent peacefully than I believe anybody else. Apparently though that wasn’t enough for Serdoa, and the entrance of mackoti seems to have finally killed his interest in the game whereafter he eventually handed over the civ to Donovan.
Now, getting a person you’ve already eliminated once as your neighbour might not be exactly ideal, but I do believe that DZ doesn’t want to let actions in an earlier life dictate actions here. On the other hand, the occasional sheer randomness of DZ play can cause head aches of its own, like when DZ rolled into me as I was finishing up the Cheater Hater/Fenn conquest.

Going forward:
DZ is actually more advanced than some of the nations ahead of him, especially militarily. Still, he hasn’t got many options for conquest and will always have to watch his back against me if he’d venture out against most likely party Borsche. His nation is the smallest left in the game, but thorniness and time running out might actually serve him well enough that he manages to survive.

And that’s everyone. 23 players originally has now withered down to 8. Fairly violent game in other words. Hopefully we’ll see how everything shakes out in the end, though considering recent turn pace makes such a conclusion still something of a doubt.

[taotao]

t200 - own situation

It's quite late so I'll save an evaluation of my own chances for another time, but I'll tell part of the story in pictures



This is an overview of my lands from last turn.
Now this turn is my last of my 3-GP GA.
I'm about to finish up my Biology research (at 60% science) and I have these builds in production:




...which gives me demographics as below:



[these look good, but REM is still to choose a tech (I'm guessing flight) which will make him pass me in gnp for the turn]

For those that like graphs you can see my progression during the last 50t in spoilers.

[taotao]

T201
Quiet turn.

Just realised that REM is researching plastics, which meant he got industrialism last turn (and medicine this one). Hardly surprising tech choice, but it does mean that I lack any kind of tech edge in a future conflict.
REM has also been building submarines (80% withdrawal chance with flanking II) and upgrading some frigates to destroyers, so getting the first strike at sea (or hiding in cities/forts) can be quite important. Since I don’t plan on getting artillery I also have to be careful not to lose/upgrade too many airships as they’ll be my main units for spotting the subs.


One interesting tidbit for next turn is that REM and I will be in a race to play the turn first. Lately I’ve generally been playing ahead of REM, but as we’re in peace there’s nothing stopping him from jumping in ahead of me. Optimally I get to stage in peace next turn, REM has one turn to “react” and then I attack on the earliest possible time on t203.
If he jumps in ahead of me next turn I can still stage, but I need to cover a lot of positions against pre-emptive attacks which could considerably weaken my own initiative and possibly lower the (small) element of surprise. I also believe that the first part of a turn split is preferable in a proper war at this stage.

I guess I could simply accept to go second, but a lot of REMs units have been away (god knows where) and are just returning. He’s also built a truckload of new highly promoted ones in his current GA. Combined this means that every turn I can push an attack truly forward really does count (as our last war also showed).

An alternative approach to these (positive) clock games I guess would be to pm REM and ask that we’d maintain a turn split. I guess I could bring forth his privateers as an excuse. Even so, it would probably scream that I’m going for an attack and would probably not be worth it (?) Also, the whole thing with trying hard for a certain part in the split feels kind of gamey and not something I’d like to be associated with…

Demos:

After I took this screenshot I also turned up the science slider from 60->80% so gnp is slightly better in reality (but then REM is largely saving money as well…)

Power: