RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[antisocialmunky]

Surely you're exaggerating things, Jowy was gone December, Funrise and Friends are nearly dead, and Kalin/Athlete/Nakor/Whosit have been posting fairly regularly.

So you only really lose Dantski :-p.

[Sullla]

I know Speaker; I think it's sheer foolishness too. But what can we do, it's not like we can tell people not to join multiple games if they want to. (And some of them will handle the situation beautifully with no problems... but others won't.) LOL on Ruff's suggestion that we could just replace missing players with Aggressive AI's! Sorry Ruff, but that wouldn't work very well.

I remember when we used to play Civ3 succession games when some people would overcommit and sign up for 4, 5, 6 or more succession games at a time. Then they would of course come up due for turns in a half dozen SGs at once, and panic and need to request extra time, slowing down all of their games. I used to hate those people, and eventually stopped joining games with known SG bingers. (Speaker, you probably experienced this as well back in the day.) The whole thing is very reminiscent of that situation...

Anyway, let's catch up on some diplo while we're stalled out. Technically, the new turn has started, but it's not 100% clear if we're going to reload back for turns that IKZ missed due to their inactivity, so no point in playing until that's cleared up. We have an interesting email string with regoarrarr first:

Hi guys
Our (slightly injured) warrior Spiros appears to be next to an Ottoman warrior in your territory. I'm not sure if the game mechanics permit him to attack us in your lands, but if you think it does, we wouldn't mind being covered by any units you have in the area...

dan.
regoarrarr
Byzantium

He was a little confused on game mechanics, so I replied:

Dear regoarrarr and Team Byzantium,

I'm pretty sure that your warrior can be attacked in our territory (if both teams at war have Open Borders with a third party). However, our moving a unit onto your unit will not protect it in any way, since we are not at war with athlete and kalin. It would be just like being attacked in neutral territory.

Of course, athlete is only in the area for scouting purposes, so he may not attack you at all. If you're really concerned about dying, I suppose you could gift the unit to us, although it would be tough for us to get Spiros back to you.

We also appreciated your last message about athlete, kalin, Jowy, and Nakor appearing together as a team in RBPB3. Believe me, we noticed that as well with some apprehension!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

Then regoarrarr gave us this news just a couple of hours ago:

Don't worry about it - the Ottomans showed up with a stack of 5 HAs (in addition to their 4 chariots) after we played our half of T81, so once the game gets going again, we will likely gift you our warrior, since we are likely to die on T82.

See you around!

Which actually contained some useful knowledge; I didn't know that athlete/kalin had Horseback Riding, for example. Now I also know that those 6k power increases I've been seeing from them are horse archer whips, and not the axe/swords I've been writing in our notes. We also know why sunrise is so hot to start up RBPB3 - they're not long for this world in RBPB2!

I sent this message back:

Dear regoarrarr,

We'd certainly appreciate the gift, and will give Spiros a good home. Good luck making the final stand this upcoming turn; maybe the dice will be kind and you'll be left standing. If not, we'd love to see a transcript of the battle for Athens for curiosity's sake when all is said and done.

Good luck!
Sullla
The Killer Angels

If they do get eliminated, which looks likely now, it will be interesting to see how athlete/kalin do at rebuilding afterwards. I'm not sure I've been terribly impressed by their empire management in either the RB PBEM game or RBPB1, but they will have a lot of land to play around with...

* * * * *

Next, we got this message from Dantski today:

Hi Killers Angel's,

First off hope you had a great xmas and new year!

Been a while since we spoke so was wondering what was up with you. I was pleased to see you listened to my barbarian warnings and got some semi-decent defences (or did you just get military techs?).

Have you met everyone yet? Unfortunately I am still endeavoring to find the Byzantines and the Incans who have possibly let their warring slow their scouting. Have you come across their scouts yet or had similar bad luck finding them?

I was concerned about the presence of your warrior which moved to a position overlooking Djenne this turn, I hope that he is not gaining intel for a future attack, so would like his mission to merely be that of an explorer.

-Dantski

I thought we owed some kind of response, so I sent off a fast note:

Dear Dantski,

Thanks for the message! I'll get you back a full reply a little later, but we can let you know that our warrior (McClellan) is indeed only an explorer and not a harbinger of a future attack. We're fully committed to the NAP that lasts until Turn 90, and will probably ask for another extension when the current one runs out.

Sullla
The Killer Angels

What do we want to say in the longer reply? I'll try this as a draft, and put it in gold to distinguish it from all the other postings here:

Dear Dantski,

Hey, finally had time to send you back a full response. First of all, thanks for the friendly wishes about the holidays and the new year. Speaker and I both took a much-needed break from the game, and didn't think about it until getting starting up again last week. Back to work again now!

Our goal all along has been to balance growth and military as best we can. It's true that our power was a little low for a while there, but now we're back to where we want to be, with a nice mixture of units. Hopefully barbarians won't be an issue any longer.

We were lucky enough to meet both the Byzantines and the Incans of IKZ earlier, far to the northeast of our starting position. I know that you had a warrior pass through our territory earlier; if that unit keeps moving east of where Jowy's civ is located, you should find them both in time.

Since you moved said warrior through our territory before, I hope you won't object to us moving one of our own through your domains while passing on to meet with Nakor and Broker. As I said in the short message before, you can rest assured of our peaceful intentions.

Thanks for the message,
Sullla
The Killer Angels

That's my best way of answering Dantski's questions while giving away very little information (especially the part about our military; you think I'm gonna just tell you what units we built and techs were researched?!) Let me know if you have any comments or feedback.

Nakor sent us this a while ago, which I didn't respond to because we were caught up in the diplomacy with Jowy at the time:

Dear Sulla and Speaker of India,

We wish you a happy new year and hope 2010 will bring you all you wish for.

About the game...
We also believe in Financial more then in Imp... but Dantski is doing good so far. We're still very unsure about what the city is doing there. It just grabs one deer and he needs a lot of culture to put pressure on our cows and wheat in the region. Well, we'll see what happens.

Your fast workers must be great in this early game, giving you the head start you've got. We just hope that your aggresion won't be turned towards us once you've settled all the available land.

How's your relation with Greece, if I may ask? Do you have the same close borders with Greece as with Mali?
We've got some space between us and Korea, as your wandering warrior must have seen. But we'll be filling it up quickly.
You beat us to 5 cities by a mere 3 turns... I wonder when the rest will get to 5 (and when you will get to 6).

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE

Dantski has a lot of land, but I wouldn't say he's "doing good" thus far. His military is very weak at present, and his GNP is pretty atrocious. I'll try this draft response:

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,

First off, apologies for not responding sooner! We had a lot of diplomacy going on with several teams, and this one kind of slipped through the cracks. I'm sorry about that. Thanks very much for the new year's wishes, and of course the same are extended to the two of you.

Dantski was fairly aggressive at going after resources on our borders as well. Kumbi Saleh has gold, rice, and silks in its second ring... but everything except the gold sits under jungle, and the city is a long way from his capital. An interesting decision, to be sure. We're hoping to pass by Gao with our warrior Jubal Early as he returns back to our territory, so that we can see the situation for ourselves.

Our relations with Greece have been generally positive thus far, aside from a misunderstanding that we had recently about a few things. Jowy settled on our borders recently, so we had to settle near his borders to respond, and things have gotten a little tight there in terms of space. This map is nowhere near as big as the one I designed for RBPB1, so I expect that things will indeed be filling up shortly, just as you said.

Obviously you guys haven't founded that extra city yet, but I believe it happens this turn if I've counted correctly, so congratulations! I don't think you have any reason to be worried about aggression from our team - we'd be open to signing a Non-Aggression Pact with you if desired. Let us know if that's something that would interest you.

Cheers,
Sullla
The Killer Angels

We really should contact Broker and Whosit too, since it's been a while since we've spoken, but I'm tired of doing this stuff right now. (They can wait, methinks.) Anyway, out for now.

[Speaker]

Couple points. Instead of saying the email to Nakor et al slipped through the cracks (i.e. they are least important to us), just say we were away for the holidays and are just finally getting back to the game and caught up.

The email to Dantski looks great!

On the Byzantium/Ottoman situation: How funny was Jowy's comment, "I think you're underestimating Byzantine. They already seem to do very well even without our help.. If we help them they might even beat the Ottomans. Remember that they're both a bit behind in economy, not just Byzantine."



I think Greece was awfully shortsighted here, and they would have benefitted much more by propping up Byzantium. I think Byzantium might have had a fighting chance given some metal to build spears. But there's nothing to be done about it now.

Except exact some payback against their co-conspirators Ottomans and Greece.

[Dr. Nomadic]

Yeah, Greece deserves to go down here. I'll be rooting for you guys!

Finally, Sulla earlier suggested that you use Frankish names for axemen and Carthaginian names for spearmen. Uh, just to point out, you guys are using a Middle Eastern civ in regards to unit art, so Egyptian or Mesopotamian names would probably fit better. Then again, you guys ARE using the names of American battlefields for cities.

[Sullla]

OK, good suggestion. For Nakor, I sent this:

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,

First off, apologies for not responding sooner! We're just getting back from the holidays and catching up with our email. Thanks very much for the new year's wishes, and of course the same are extended to the two of you.

Dantski was fairly aggressive at going after resources on our borders as well. Kumbi Saleh has gold, rice, and silks in its second ring... but everything except the gold sits under jungle, and the city is a long way from his capital. An interesting decision, to be sure. We're hoping to pass by Gao with our warrior Jubal Early as he returns back to our territory, so that we can see the situation for ourselves.

Our relations with Greece have been generally positive thus far, aside from a misunderstanding that we had recently about a few things. Jowy settled on our borders recently, so we had to settle near his borders to respond, and things have gotten a little tight there in terms of space. This map is nowhere near as big as the one I designed for RBPB1, so I expect that things will indeed be filling up shortly, just as you said.

Obviously you guys haven't founded that extra city yet, but I believe it happens this turn if I've counted correctly, so congratulations! I don't think you have any reason to be worried about aggression from our team - we'd be open to signing a Non-Aggression Pact with you if desired. Let us know if that's something that would interest you.

Cheers,
Sullla
The Killer Angels

With Dantski's email going out unaltered.

regoarrarr and sunrise were indeed taken out earlier tonight, thus leaving us with 7 remaining rivals. regoarrarr's last emails to us:

Okay - I played and gifted the warrior to you. I originally renamed him to "Do NOT let our death go unavenged" but then realized that since the Ottomans have a warrior nearby, that could cause you some diplomatic problems. So I renamed him to DNLODGU. We'll know what it means :-)

Not that he comes with any kinds of strings - don't feel like you have to attack the Ottomans to avenge us or anything. But if you do, we'd enjoy it :-D

Good luck and have fun!
dan.
regoarrarr
Byzantium

Well we died. We killed 3 HAs (including one flawlessly!) but lost the rest and numbers carried the day - catch you on hte flip side!

Hey, at least we got a free Woodsmans II warrior out of the whole thing! Looks like another one of our sentries for Speaker's net. I wished them good luck in RBPB3.

[darrelljs]

Except exact some payback against their co-conspirators Ottomans and Greece.

Please .

Darrell

[antisocialmunky]

Its too bad you didn't have time to gift everything else :-p. Not that it matters at this point.

[Sullla]

OK, logged in and moved our workers for Turn 82. Speaker, you're up for our military moves and you've got a new Byzantine warrior to play around with.

I ran into both Whosit and dsplaisted in-game, and they both wanted to chat. Whosit said that there were a lot of barbs on his borders (in the empty space vacated by Mortius' death) including a barb city. They were giving him some problems. Ironically, dsplaisted said exactly the same thing about 20 minutes later in a separate conversation, unprompted by me! I also teased Whosit about whether he was attacking Broker, and understandably didn't get an answer. At least we probably don't need to send them any more messages now.

Anyway, the big news from this turn was of course sunrise and regoarrarr getting eliminated. Here's their warrior frolicking on our borders before it was gifted:



Later in the turn, we get the formal word over the news ticker:



The score box on the right side is getting smaller... As far as Jubal Early goes, do we want to move him east after the Nakor settler we spied, or keep moving west deeper into their territory? I'm fine with either.

As far as our team, not a whole lot going on right now. Our cities are still growing and building really nicely; #3 in Power and #1 in literally everything else that matters. We are looking very, very likely to land Monotheism first for Judaism in two turns. I don't want to call it yet, but... I'd be surprised if someone beat us there now.

In the short term, we'll keep teching towards Monarchy, then likely Calendar, and maybe Metal Casting after that. (Especially if we get Judaism, since Organized Religion + forges is a great combo.) Medium term, Civil Service is another major tech goal. But sometime in the not-too-distant future, we'll probably start our military buildup and think about attacking someone. With our awesome GNP, we can probably get to Guilds before our neighbors get to Feudalism, and that's complete knight ownage if you can pull it off...

My preference would be for some action against Jowy too, for making no effort to assist regoarrarr and sunrise.

[Dr. Nomadic]

Yay, the Ottomans killed the Byzantines. Let history repeat itself!

Well, except that India conquering Greece will be the opposite of history, now that you mention it. I agree that Jowy/Yaziliclick (or whatever the hey his name is) should go down for not supporting the weak team and attempting to play kingmaker!

I was going to ask you guys about why you were ignoring Iron Working for so long, because I always prioritize that tech. Then in my current game of Civ4 (played with the objective of successfully invading the other continent) I didn't research Iron Working until 1060, after stuff like Music, Theology, Philosophy, Civil Service, and Engineering, because I had no jungle to chop down and it turned out the only city with Iron in its radius was my Heroic Epic site. Sorry for the off-topic.

So let me try to guess the plan: build the Mausoleum, use a GP to trigger a 12-turn golden age, switch to a wartime government and overrun Greece?

[antisocialmunky]

Some stuff on ironworking was actually posted in the lurker thread if you're interested.