American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charriu]

Me entering this thread:



Is it too pie-in-the-sky to want to have these threads for reasonable discussion without things getting to a point where I feel like I have to put on a Moderator vest every-time I check the latest posts?

Oh no, daddy's here. Quick hide.

Jokes aside. You are right we should keep a better tone.

[Gustaran]

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Less whining about rude words and crying to the mods, more time raising how incredibly fucked everything is.

Proposition 22 in California passed. It is the future of how money in lobbying will work in the future, even in "progressive" states. The 2019 CA legislature passed a bill that classifies rideshare drivers as employees: a unanimous good. Uber and fellow tech companies respond with Prop 22, a bill that reclassifies drivers as contractors, stripping all their economic rights. They plough 200 fucking million dollars* into disgusting pro-22 propaganda, doing slimy shit like forcing all customers to click through "Yes on 22" on their apps. They make it mandatory for drivers to put their names to it, allowing the company to use their names on advertising.  It bypasses normal democratic checks and balances: Prop 22 can only be repealed with a fucking 7-8ths majority in the CA legislature.

It works. It passes by 16 points. They trick what is a pretty progressive electorate into voting Yes on something that removes economic rights from workers.

Did Biden go out campaigning against Prop 22? No, barely a whisper lest it alienate tech companies against the Democratic party. Uber is stuffed with Democratic establishment figures. Unless the Democrats actively and loudly fight for worker's rights, they are going to continue to lose margins to fascists.




*you know what's the dark irony behind all this? Uber still doesn't make a profit. They used investor money to fund this lobbying campaign, squeeze the drivers by paying as little as possible. All in hopes of one day cornering the rideshare market: an absurdity when multiple players already exist.

[Cyneheard]

Less whining about rude words and crying to the mods, more time raising how incredibly fucked everything is.

Proposition 22 in California passed. It is the future of how money in lobbying will work in the future, even in "progressive" states. The 2019 CA legislature passed a bill that classifies rideshare drivers as employees: a unanimous good. Uber and fellow tech companies respond with Prop 22, a bill that reclassifies drivers as contractors, stripping all their economic rights. They plough 200 fucking million dollars* into disgusting pro-22 propaganda, doing slimy shit like forcing all customers to click through "Yes on 22" on their apps. They make it mandatory for drivers to put their names to it, allowing the company to use their names on advertising.  It bypasses normal democratic checks and balances: Prop 22 can only be repealed with a fucking 7-8ths majority in the CA legislature.

It works. It passes by 16 points. They trick what is a pretty progressive electorate into voting Yes on something that removes economic rights from workers.

Did Biden go out campaigning against Prop 22? No, barely a whisper lest it alienate tech companies against the Democratic party. Uber is stuffed with Democratic establishment figures. Unless the Democrats actively and loudly fight for worker's rights, they are going to continue to lose margins to fascists.




*you know what's the dark irony behind all this? Uber still doesn't make a profit. They used investor money to fund this lobbying campaign, squeeze the drivers by paying as little as possible. All in hopes of one day cornering the rideshare market: an absurdity when multiple players already exist.

Biden came out against it. So did Bernie. So did Warren. Are you expecting the Presidential candidate to do 10 rallies in a safe state specifically on a ballot initiative that only matters within that state? That's just not going to happen. As bad as it is - that wasn't the most important thing on the ballot in 2020 and they knew it.

The Presidential candidate is going to focus on their national election first - and ESPECIALLY when the Electoral College makes it that California doesn't matter, that is going to make California-specific issues irrelevant to who wins. Fix the Electoral College, and then an issue that impacts California might actually get national attention during an election.

Source for Biden (and Harris and Warren) coming out against it: https://nooncaprop22.com/our_coalition
Bernie: https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status...20?lang=en

This is also a prime example of the limitations of legislation-by-initiative (how on Earth was the 7/8ths rule created?!?!?!).

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Biden said the right words, but he didn't make it a loud and clear part of his messaging, he didn't whip the California Democrats in line to all come out and oppose it and Uber propaganda. Instead, his proxies let it slide behind his back.

And loudly opposing something like Prop 22 in California has nationwide ramifications, it would have shown that Biden was serious about fighting for worker's rights, and that he wasn't beholden to wealthy tech companies.

In another example of this effect at the state level possibly costing them the state, a supermajority of Floridians for a $15 minimum wage. But the Florida Democrats didn't dare tie themselves to this ballot measure, because that would alienate wealthy donors, and so they sat back and allowed the Hispanic margin to be eaten by the Republicans (who are explicitly against raising the minimum wage!)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...mendment-2

[Gustaran]

Biden said the right words, but he didn't make it a loud and clear part of his messaging, he didn't whip the California Democrats in line to all come out and oppose it and Uber propaganda. Instead, his proxies let it slide behind his back.

Are Californians all illiterate? Just google "reject proposition 22" and in 5 minutes you know what's going on. If a company bombards you with messages to vote for a proposition and you don't find that a little bit suspicious, you've got to blame yourself.
For a country that puts a lot of emphasis on personal responsibility you sure are putting a lot of blame on the Democrats. Do California voters need to be told by Biden how to vote on a proposition in their state? At some point people need to put in a bit of effort to make an informed decision themselves. It's not like the US is suffering from censorship on the internet.

The uncomfortable truth of the matter is probably that many people like the cheap uber rides and don't want prices to rise. They don't really care about the legal status and the social security of the drivers or workers in the gig economy.

[darrelljs]

Are Californians all illiterate? Just google "reject proposition 22" and in 5 minutes you know what's going on. If a company bombards you with messages to vote for a proposition and you don't find that a little bit suspicious, you've got to blame yourself.
For a country that puts a lot of emphasis on personal responsibility you sure are putting a lot of blame on the Democrats. Do California voters need to be told by Biden how to vote on a proposition in their state? At some point people need to put in a bit of effort to make an informed decision themselves. It's not like the US is suffering from censorship on the internet.

+1 to this.

Darrell

[Mjmd]

Again Americans / people are idiots. We have a good 90% of our population that will believe anything "their" side tells them no matter what. I've come up with the theory that it isn't because they couldn't critically think their way out of it, but just that their brain doesn't think about it because they are used to accepting it. our brain does all kinds of mental short cuts just as part of normal thinking.

Quick story. I went to church one Sunday some 6 months after Trump got elected. Sermon was fairly standard "help strangers" message based on Matthew 25:43 for those curious. Outside after the service one of the members randomly started talking politics about how Mexicans coming over the border was dangerous and we had to do something. I could tell in his head that he was trying somehow gel the message of "hate, fear, and deny help to others" that he had been told by Republicans and the message he had just heard in church. It isn't like he hadn't heard this message before at church, but just the messaging he had heard from Republicans he had accepted without thinking about it because the natural mental shortcut was to believe it.

[darrelljs]

Decision Desk HQ just called the race for Biden based on taking the lead in Pennsylvania (which won't be that close by the end, according to 538).  Numerous Republicans continue to repudiate Trump's efforts to subvert the election.  I actually want the Supreme Court to have a role in the outcome, because I trust them to do the right thing, and it will take the wind out of the sails of those that believe Trump.

In other funny news, my Cuban ex in-laws have abandoned Fox for being too left leaning and found another news outlet  .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Again Americans / people are idiots. We have a good 90% of our population that will believe anything "their" side tells them no matter what. I've come up with the theory that it isn't because they couldn't critically think their way out of it, but just that their brain doesn't think about it because they are used to accepting it. our brain does all kinds of mental short cuts just as part of normal thinking.

That was a sad story . My "I have no right to an opinion" opinion is people seek confirmation to their existing bias.

Darrell