[SPOILERS] Willem of Portugal (Dantski + Mukha)

[Mukha]

Contact with Carthage:

Greetings to the leaders of the great Empire of Portugal,

It is with great pleasure that we meet you, and hopefully in prosperous times for your nation.

Regarding our location, our eastern borders are a dozen or so tiles west from where we met. We have already met Egypt to our east, DIM and A4 to our north, Mali to our south, as well as the distant India.

As a gesture of goodwill, our team will offer open borders to yours, and will also requested the Sailing tech from your team. We expect to have Maths completed on T70, and look forward to sharing it with you at that time. Truthfully, we were a little concerned we wouldn't meet you by then, and as a result you would have an inefficient forest chop as a result. Thank goodness that won't happen!

Until later,

Mr. Nice Guy for Team Nice Shot

Response

Greetings from Portugal,

There were rumours circulating in our remote corner of the world of the scientific prowess of the Carthiginians and we decided such beacons of light simply must be investigated. A warrior was summoned and engaged in bloody combat with all manner of beasts at an ever increasing ferocity until it underwent The Quickening. It is this warrior that now moves with the speed of a horse that brings this message to you, and hopefully will return to us with Maths next turn. Perhaps when our scientists return from their conquest they can be once again employed in the service of the greater good of CAN and repay this debt.

We are happy to accept open borders and will gladly share our knowledge of Sailing. Perhaps working together our navies can conquer the many lakes and rivers we have encountered in our travels.

I think we panicked HRE a little when we went in a different direction from their instructions but England had directed us to your scout which was on a more direct path to Mali who we hope to also contact soon. Do you have directions for quickest contact?

We also find ourselves meeting in exciting times as yet another war has broken out in our bloodthirsty region. Hopefully the people of your region are more civilized. If not, perhaps you could arrange tuition with those masters of etiquette - The Macemen.

Also, as I don't seem to have any screenshots from the previous swap perhaps you would like to arrange one? We would be happy to forward the latest brochure advertising our region.

Mukha
CBE/Portugal

India and Portugal,

These last two turns have been very interesting, and Sandover and I definitely did not expect to wake up to a massive rules dispute this morning! We've talked it over, and we've been extremely disappointed in the way Exploit has handled this. India, we had a conversation with you awhile back where we admitted we were a little unsure on the "who's right" on your clash with Exploit earlier. Sandover and I both admitted in our thread that there might have been some truth in what you were saying, but from the limited knowledge we had at the time, Exploit's story seemed slightly more convincing.

That said, we did promise you guys that if we ever reconsidered that - we would tell you. Given how Exploit handled things here, Sandover and I are both very doubtful that he was actually in the right on the first issue. We will never know for sure until the game is over, but regardless we'd like to, at the very least, let you know that we acknowledge that you probably were right. He seemed to have absolutely no interest in a compromise, and we couldn't help but think he might've done same thing to you. So if this email accomplishes nothing else, at least know that, like we said we would, we are admitting that we might have chosen the wrong side on that issue .


Now taking a step back from that, I know we've had quite a bit of discussion with you guys about joining the Hydra, but we said no. Here was the only two reasons we said no:

1. We were slightly unsure on what exactly transpired in the early conflict between India and Exploit, and IF what Exploit said was true (which we are doubting now), then we would not want to work with you guys.
2. We strongly disliked the tech alliance structure - we would prefer it see it fizzle out into groups of 3-4 or so. Almost all of the players who fall in the "CANT" group are in the same boat - they hate the mega-alliance thing - so we had more in common with them. CANT's only goal was to break up the Hydra, and then break up into smaller groups. To us it seemed like the quickest way to break up the mega-alliance structure into something more enjoyable for everyone.

Sandover and I had a lengthy exchange today, and we've concluded that both of those reasons are no longer valid. Exploit has quit the game (something we find pretty low and dishonorable), and we've concluded the quickest way to break up the mega-alliance may actually be to join it, if the offer is still on the table. If you'll bear with me on the length of this message, let me be more specific:

We do realize you may very well tell us to "get lost" since we turned you guys down at first, and if you do that then that's pretty understandable. From having talked to both of your teams though, we got the impression that both of you guys didn't really care for the whole mega-alliance, and were only in it to eliminate some competition more or less. If you allow us to join, we can probably help do that sooner rather than later... Let's just say Sumeria falls, and given the way Exploit talked we get the impression that's going to happen. We're then looking at a 9v6, and one of those is Inca who managed to badly bungle their rush on Ruff, rendering them nearly useless for the time being. If we were to flip over to your side, we could very rapidly leave the other 4 1/2 in the dust, allowing us to disintegrate the mega-alliance even quicker. Might even be worth considering to bring in another member of the CANT group if you guys find it strategically worthwhile, but we don't care either way because we haven't had tons of contact with the rest of the group.

If you doubt our honest intentions (understandable), we are more than willing to prove them to you if necessary. We are not at all keen on NAP's, but if that's necessary to prove ourselves for the time being then that is fine too. We are not really desperate at this point because regardless of whether or not Sumeria falls, we *can* get alphabet from a civ not in CAN. So we could stick with them if needed and drag out "alliance wars" even longer, but if you guys really want to cut down on this 10-civ alliance thing sooner rather than later, we believe we might be able to help accelerate that by joining.

Once again I am sorry for the length, but there was a lot to say, so hopefully I got it all out. We're looking forward to hearing from you soon, whether you bring a yes or a no. Either way, thanks for reading if you got this far, and good luck through the rest of the game.

Thanks,
scooter - Team SsS

me: hey
Sent at 12:29 PM on Wednesday
DJ: didn't expect that email
me: heh yeah
DJ: translation: "uh, you guys have sick power gaphs and we don't have IW yet"
me: umm we really need to discuss our position towards rome
heh or hunting
DJ: agreed
yeah
me: they've tried for quite a while to seed doubt against you and we've stringing them along
so we'd like to clarify our position towards you as well
we like you guys
DJ: ditto
me: no doubt you were probably saying the same things to rome vs action against us
kinda funny really, they were sort of see through
I think they had chosen to side with CANT a long time ago, but perhaps they never realized it
DJ: They really misplayed the diplo and now they are trying to talk there way out of it
I posted their e-mail in our forum but my position is that you take the lead on this one
You've been dealin with them, whatever you want to do we'll back you up
Got to get feedback from the other but our hands are full rigt now
me: right, well unless they suddenly actually get hunting or Iron hooked up (HRE can give us continuous updates on that)
we're going ahead
don't trust rome at all
they would make terrible allies in any case
DJ: We have no problem with that. I thought you would tbh.
Is HRE going to contribute anything?
me: a chariot i think
at their second city on t75, same time as we should arrive there
DJ: I've talked it over with sunrise (helping) and he has come concerns but does think if we hit them from a different direction it could help a lot
one chariot?!
geez
Rome is as much their problem, right?
me: heh yeah, ahh well, we are settling in behind our attack
and hope to chop reinforcements if necessary
DJ: I guess both of us took the military side of CAN
me: yeah HRE is equally close to Rome as us
heh yeah
DJ: we chopped and whipped the heck out of our cities
me: just whips for us
ouch
DJ: I honestly don't know what we are going to do next
me: same
so broke
DJ: If it was exploit I think we'd try andget the kil, byz/maya or not
but now we are not so sure
Its taxing us, thats for sure
me: if rome suddenly gets iron or hunting and can have a turn or two to whip praes spears
then we'll send our chariots to either inca or exploit
no point letting them go to waste
DJ: yeah...then its bad
exploit = yaz now
me: sorry yeah
DJ: different world, yaz is pretty stand up
might be a mercy killing though
me: what were you going to do with him?
DJ: Not sure
me: yeah, he would be more reasonable
way I see it, is unless capital is well defended
DJ: I think we can take his cap, but it won't be as easy as BP
Total pants down moment
Byz/mayans have units to help him
thats the problem
me: yeah
hmm
DJ: and they could really hound us
me: i asked someone on your team if it was worth us now building something more for exploit
think they suggsted another chariot
DJ: nah
me: problem is we have nothing left to whip, we can chop some more though in new cities
DJ: its either hit it in two turns or we are too late
me: if yaz guranteed not to trade alphabet or hunting
that would be a start
DJ: I think we'll talk to yaz and see what he's willing to offer, and the act accordingly
me: but if I were you, I would want more
but not sure what else he could give
DJ: definiltey more
A settler for the ciy we lost would be nice
me: ah yeah
DJ: I've heard rumors that CANT is getting alphabet another way
me: i'll let you guys do that
DJ: There aren't confirmed yet, but I tend to believe them
me: they are relying on babylon
heh
they are still feeding babylon all intel
DJ: interesting...thjat was NOT what I heard, but maybe
me: in fact exploit's last email was to babylon giving detailed instructions for civ
DJ: Yeah, cause you really want to follow exploit's advice
me: heh
DJ: He's a 12 year old kid, I'm convinced
me: heh
i had nothing personal towards him
but rage quitting
now makes me not like the guy
I think babylon was a backup alphabet guy
DJ: Some day remind me to send you all our emails with his team
me: if exploit couldn't et it
DJ: its pretty amazing
me: heh ok, well we only had the one I'm afraid
and then silence
DJ: I dont get maya and byz and rome
Of course Im biased
me: no, and they all voted for tech brokering
so of course this was going to be a democracy style game
where you want to be on the biggest most powerful group
DJ: exactly..
me: funnily enough you guys were one of the few to vote no trading
DJ: I had a rant post when it was 3v1 and looking like 4v1 and everyone saying they ahve to attack us because of CAN
Like, wtf, it isn't our fault, blame the map and game settings but piling on us wont change things
We did...for this reason
Surprised you remembered, no one else did
me: i actually like democracy games
when rome sent their refusal
i was curious
so went back and looked at how everyone voted
3 in can voted no tech trading at all
1 in cant
byzantium voted i think no tech trading
ruff, you, and someone else voted NTT as well
DJ: Interesting
not even close
me: ahh well, would like to see pictures
of how it all went down
DJ: hold
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3729922/Civ4ScreenShot1013.JPG
pre
me: pity, I'm always so tempted after having bad diplo to raze a city
because it just feels so good
DJ: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3729922/Civ4ScreenShot1017.JPG
post
Hey I got to run, the wife is calling me
me: no problem speak to you later
bye
DJ: let us know what you wnt to do with rome if it changes
me: sure
Sent at 12:46 PM on Wednesday
me: ahh damn looks like Bison Pass wouldn't have been contributing to his research at all
except for that cottage 2N1W
Sent at 12:48 PM on Wednesday

[Mukha]

Next couple turns are going to be very tight. Tried to get peace with Yaz but he wouldn't negotiate over hunting and neither would we. Some people fight to the death over insults to their mother or being asked to become a Vassal, for Yaz it's hunting. Who knew?

So we have moved a chariot north at the beginning of this turn (t70 with 20hrs or so left on turn timer) to be able to attack him if he settles on copper at the beginning of next turn (t71). All other units remain unmoved and will move towards the end of the turn so we can claim second half with Rome. That wasn't actually neccessary because we declare EoT72 but we may as well start now.

[Mukha]

Portugal,

Oh hey guys, just figured I'd drop in to give you a little update. First off, we are less than enthused about the fact that Mukha has been lying to us these last few days like we kind of expected. We are completely fine with being rejected from CAN, but we are less than fine about people screwing with us and lying repeatedly. I will hand it to you though Mukha, that was clever the other day trying to drop that little tidbit to convince us that you were leaving us alone, and you were going to backstab France with all those chariots. That was clever... You fooled us for a few minutes, but that was about it. We were pretty sure that you were lying, and then just recently one of your "allies" in CAN ratted you out and informed us that you are sending chariots at us. Thankfully we have been expecting that, and will have a few surprises prepared . I hope it was fun whipping all your cities into the ground!

The next matter is that of your honor. We've gotten multiple emails and an hour-long chat where you (Mukha) have directly lied to us about your intentions. I think your allies would, at the very least, be a little disturbed by your willingness to directly lie over and over again. So I will be preparing an email with a log of all your lies and I'll mass email everyone we have contact with. We will probably save it as a draft, and the moment you alt+click our name in-game, it will be sent! We'll have a few friends forward it on to everyone else too, so don't you worry about them .

I believe that will be all for the moment, until then, we will eagerly be awaiting your chariots!

Have a lovely day,
scooter - Team SsS

All that hard work for nothing, spoiled by me blabbing to France.

[Mukha]

Also Yaz founded a city, it wasn't on copper as we were hoping. It's not even near the copper I don't think or we would see the border. It's also not on horses, but I think it's probably near them.

India ran the numbers on Rome's power:

Okay - here's what I can figure out.

Rome's power is 48K.

4K population - pop 8 or 9 total
24K tech - 10K IW, 8K BW, 2K mining, 4K wheel
6K imporvements - 2 barracks
14K units - 4 warriors and 1 axe

I feel pretty good that this is pretty accurate

DJ Civ
India

And they added another axe last turn. Most of those warriors are out and about somewhere. We'll be able to tell on t73 before we even see the city whether they could have a spear inside.

[Mukha]

Quick chat with HRE

Also, I think everyone thinks we're ruthless now. We're the good guys!

I think it's time to run a PR blitz.

[Mukha]

Ottomans are contributing one chariot. They don't really have a reason to worry about Rome though as I've managed to so thorougly paint ourselves as Rome's first target.

If anyone's still here I could post some screenies etc of possible plans post Roman invasion?

About to log in now and move all units. The chariot in the north is no longer needed against Yaz so it can move in the second half as well. Workers finish building our road to Rome and 6 chariots only are assembling on the staging tile. Rome added an axe on turns 69 and 70, giving them 4 wars, 3 axes and 2 barracks. So with a whip and assuming that most wars are out scouting, we can probably say that Rome could have 4 axes and a spear defending.

My prediction is this is going to be a complete disaster. We'll still go ahead though, we can pillage and harass. With only 1 spear on t73 it won't be possible to defend any iron city they might settle and their capital as well.

[Mukha]

Whoops. Miscalculation of Rome's army:

They have 3 axes 4 wars 2 barracks.

Did a 2 pop whip of a pre-built warrior in both their cities. Actually not sure about scooterville haven't done the figures. Which means a spear in both those cities, next turn and the turn after.

So T73 when we can attack Sandograd it could have 3 spears (spear from second city could reach and reinforce t73 if there are roads and no bad crossings) and 2-3 axes. If we take the first half of the turn there would be 2 spears, 1 unpromoted and 1 promoted. Even just one spear stops chariots pretty thoroughly.

It's tempting now to pull out, and just use chariots for military police/barb control/scouting. They would have hated whipping their cities as their food really sucks. Also overflowing into spears is far better for us long term than whipping praes/axes. Also, the only word they have had that we've been targeting them is from France, so if we don't follow through maybe they might begin to have some doubts, especially if we contribute those chariots to any anti-France action? But I'm very doubtful that they would begin to be doubtful. Still don't know how we could explain that road unless we plant a city there real quick. We could pillage it on the return journey I guess.

So I'm torn what we should tell our people:
Either this or this.

[novice]

Great videos, and an interesting conundrum. Your thread is still highly entertaining!

I'm still reading so screenshots are always appreciated.

[Mukha]

Hey thanks for the interest novice.

I ended up signing a NAP with France till t100 as I figured while taking Roman capital is off the table, 6 chariots can still do an awfully mean job of pillaging. Still absolutely sure it was France that talked to Rome.

We implied in a message to Rome that CAN were getting sick of one of our neighbours and that our whipped chariots were for that purpose. Rome took this to France and France responded by telling Rome what we told them. Fairly straightforward, I just misplayed the diplo badly there, should either have not told France or given them advanced warning that I was about to use them in that way.

Asked rest of CAN not to include us in any further discussion of anti-French action.

DMOC,Rash: Good Morning Williem of the Oranje, we hope all is well with you
me: oh hey
how are things
8:13 PM DMOC,Rash: good thanks chap, little worried we are out of the loop. trying to speak with our allies on a daily basis. Is there anything we can do to assist you? or have you any diplomatic pointers that we can adddress?
me: yes, there was something I wanted to discuss with you, and might perhaps explain why you feel out of the loop
8:14 PM we are pretty sure you told rome that we were coming for them
I know why you did that
I sort of understand, because Rome and others in CANT have been trying it on all of us for quite a while
8:15 PM DMOC,Rash: Whoa, whoa.
me: rome and others in CANT have all been talking about a split in CAN that simply doesn't exist
8:16 PM DMOC,Rash: We have had no diplomatic contact with Rome or any other CANT members
abosoulty none.
8:19 PM me: ok, not sure how I can convince you if you are thinking of siding now with CANTs because you feel out of the loop
DMOC,Rash: Let me state our postion clearly.
me: ok
8:21 PM DMOC,Rash: Since the HRE got us on board we have done everying we can to support the alliance, HRE requested us to not open diplomatic realitons with anyone but the CAN - so thats what has happened. We have not spoken to anyone else despite being cold shouldered and ignored by our supposed allys
8:23 PM me: hmm well perhaps part of that might be my fault, I was absolutely sure it was your team that had been speaking to Rome. I told some of the rest of CAN that you may been wavering in your committment and I told them that you were discussing military planning with CANT. They may not been speaking much now to you because they are unsure of how much to trust you.
8:24 PM so, what can we do now?
8:25 PM DMOC,Rash: I have no way to prove anything to you, but if you wanted to log into this gmail account i'll give you the password and you can see all my diplo
me: heh
ok, well it is tempting to say yes please send me your password heh
but I think that might break some spoiler rules
8:26 PM DMOC,Rash: i don't think it would, you can see without reading in dtail
8:27 PM me: ok, well if you didn't do it, then the timing is funny, and it could just be yet another attempt by Rome to create a split
DMOC,Rash: look the bottom line is it would suicide geographicall for me to ally with anyone but CAN. if thngs don't change soon then i'm going to arrange a replacement. i'm not wasting more hours everyday flogging a dead horse
8:28 PM me: heh ok. well we would still all like you in, you are right
you are probably the most strategically secure location out of all us
which is why you make such a good researcher
DMOC,Rash: please tell the rest of the alliance you find a way to trust me in 4 turns or you can deal with my replacemtn however you wish
8:29 PM me: ok, well that would be very diappointing, also you would have no replacement.
all that would happen is CANT +1, CAN -1
8:30 PM at the moment, it's pretty much a sure thing with CAN vs CANT
and there have been a lot of desperate attempts to get us against each other
8:31 PM so personally I'm willing to believe you in this instance, because i have heard of an even worse and more far fetched attemp
attempt
DMOC,Rash: Look is it Mutha i'm speaking with?
me: yeah
nearly always me, because Dantski can't be bothered
8:33 PM if you can get a great scientist down soon into an academy, or something like that
CAN would love you forever
8:34 PM can you tell me what others have been saying to you that bothers you?
8:36 PM whoops think I got disconnected
DMOC,Rash: hello, sorry connection problem
8:37 PM me: not sure if you got my last messages
DMOC,Rash: yep connectio
8:38 PM i'm just summing up
me: ok heh
sorry
8:42 PM DMOC,Rash: anyhows, look to sum up. we are commited and have not been doing any double dealing, we are happy to show you anything it if you wish, prove beyond doubt etc. In order for us to make a decent contribution we need to in the tech loop, maths last turn cost us 20 hammers 1/3 of a libary. that wastage means a GS 3 turns later. the CAN alliance is shitting on its best techer because of some unfounded rumour that you haven't till now rasied with us. like i said we'll give 100% and support the alliance or we'll get a replacment that maybe will be more trustable.
sorry about the essay.
8:43 PM me: heh that's ok still reading
DMOC,Rash: sorry the last few days have been frustrating
me: right ok, I'm sorry I thought you had maths
I understand totally if you didn't have maths
do you have carthage contact?
8:44 PM DMOC,Rash: yep, spoke with shoot t moon - he was undecided and not sure if the gift went through
known then for 2 turns
sent 2 emails and asked for a chat
8:45 PM me: that really sucks to have an inefficient chop especially for something that's so important for all of us
so, wait, do you have maths now or not?
8:46 PM DMOC,Rash: no maths
there might be a chance if we recieved before i end turn
me: hmm
did you log in to see if it had been offered
how much time is left on the clock?
DMOC,Rash: yes, i'm holding the turn
5 gours odd
8:47 PM 4.46
me: can't remember what time zone carthage players are in
do you have a chop coming in this turn?
DMOC,Rash: 2 chops
me: jesus
DMOC,Rash: yes, timed to recieve maths last turn
8:48 PM me: trying to find when they last logged in
do you know?
8:49 PM 13 hours ago
apparently according to civ stats
DMOC,Rash: yes last night, i spoke to shootthemoon in game, we talked i asked for maths, he say brb then disapeared. i wait 20mins in game, he never came back
8:50 PM me: gah!, honestly some people in CAN I think mb are worried they are doing all the donating
DMOC,Rash: he sent an email this morning, said he'd left a meassgae for mr nice guy
me: and combined with what I said you may have done
but they need to understand that you despereately need development techs
DMOC,Rash: i hope nice guy will gift it before 4.45h
8:51 PM maybe if your happy that we 100% comitted you could ping them a message supporting us, that may remove some doubt
8:52 PM me: right, I'll try that. but can you gurantee me absolutely that you aren't going to share anything with CANT?
I just need your word
DMOC,Rash: of course, we give our word. we are not traitors
me: you are welcome to maintain contact with them. that seemed like a silly demand of HRE's
8:53 PM just if they come to you trying to forment unrest
play dumb, but absolutely don't truly believe a word of it
8:54 PM I think everyone in CAN hopes to pick off CANT one by one
DMOC,Rash: we''ve only met rome, and as i said no contact what so ever. we sent a poilte first email and have nbever had a response to it
8:55 PM what are you views on england?
me: very little contact
opposite side of map I think
umm, not really sure about their situation either
hell I don't even know what they are teching
why do you ask?
8:57 PM DMOC,Rash: they are attacking rome with the HRE, they say. yesterday when i spoken with them, i did tell them that you may be preparing for war. i speculated (as i didn't know) that it may be rome.
me: ahh that's the best news I've heard this week
DMOC,Rash: i hope i have not betrayed your confidence, i so i apogilse
8:58 PM how do you mean?
me: england helping hre
i need to talk them asap
8:59 PM see what they have arranged with hre
9:00 PM DMOC,Rash: cool, we'll help as well if we can.
9:01 PM me: help is nice, but plans are still being formulated I think
ok, well at least now we know where we both stand, perhaps we can still do that screenshot swap?
sorry I didn't respond
9:02 PM I was a little worried again
I'm way too paranoid now
9:03 PM DMOC,Rash: sure, again we have done nothing wrong and will take all steps to prove ourselves. we need development techs. maths and IW would help a long way to getting a GS out and us doing some seroius teching
me: also, I think it might be a good idea for us to get a NAP?
DMOC,Rash: of course
me: ok
let me think, of a good turn number then
hmm
9:04 PM T100 seems like a good random guess? but there would be a few clauses we would require
like no RoP for enemy units to move through each other's lands
9:05 PM umm, also no gifting units to someone who is planning or is at war with either of us
DMOC,Rash: have you naps with other memebers? we could have a group nap, yes we are happy for those clauses
me: we don't have naps with others, we were still in the process of getting one with india, I think I would prefer to negotiate them individually
ok
9:06 PM can we just preliminary agree to one now? so we can rid ourselves of paranoia?
DMOC,Rash: of course
me: ok
should I send it as an email? or is this enough
9:07 PM so here it is officially then mb:
1. NAP till t100 inclusive of t100?
DMOC,Rash: email would be good, to confirm and for easy records
yes 100 inc
me: 2. No RoP for enemy units
3. No gifting of units
9:08 PM 4. No sharing of map information, or any other sort of information like graphs etc or plannning details with others
DMOC,Rash: agreed
me: ok done?
9:09 PM could you copy and paste that into an email then?
DMOC,Rash: i'll send it out in a mo
me: great ok maybe we can start to work together a bit more then
honestly, we were actually worried about your warrior on our borders heh
9:11 PM DMOC,Rash: you agreed we could o/b to the indians
we discussed it a few turns ago
me: what do you mean? oh you want to use our roads
i completely forgot about that
sorry
heh that explains that then
the road doesn't start at that southern city actually
only starts in our capital
9:12 PM DMOC,Rash: which way is best?
me: trying to remember where it is atm, it's on a hill i think south of covenant
it might actually be quicker now, to just ignore our roads, and head straight to india
i'll have to log in and see
9:13 PM DMOC,Rash: east yes?
me: ne yes
more north than east
one minte let me log in
DMOC,Rash: thanks
9:17 PM me: ok here's the route
go 3N, that will put you in covenant
9:18 PM go 4 NW from there, that will put you in our capital
DMOC,Rash: ok
me: then follow the road NE from there to scales and indian territory
should be 10 turns mb all up
9:19 PM DMOC,Rash: excelent, thanks
5 minutes
9:24 PM me: oh, and just in case it wasn't clear, that NAP is not dependant on whether either of us are in CAN or CANT
9:25 PM or neutral
DMOC,Rash: ok,
me: ok all good then
did you still want to do that screenshot swap?
9:28 PM DMOC,Rash: sure, how do you want them?
me: just email is fine
9:29 PM bare map, alt-i to remove the interface, and tag the resources and then zoom out to just before clouds appear
DMOC,Rash: yep, got those, no resources mind, i'll have to retake them
9:31 PM do you wan them uploaded and sent hyperlinks?
or attached to emails?
me: whatever is easiest for you
9:32 PM DMOC,Rash: upload then
i'll do it this afternoon and email you the links.
me: cool
i'm just about to take them and I'll just email them direct
DMOC,Rash: email then in reply to the one i send
9:33 PM me: ok
10 minutes
9:43 PM DMOC,Rash: got to go. good chatting, i'll email those screenies.
me: ok cool
see you then
wait
DMOC,Rash: i'm holding the turn in the small hope we get maths
me: a sec
did carthage log in
ahh
9:44 PM DMOC,Rash: 4 hours, sorry to delay the turn end. got my fingers crossed
me: that's ok
DMOC,Rash: thanks for the chat
me: pity about no tech brokeing
9:45 PM we've only got sailing and other equally valuable techs to give you
DMOC,Rash: np, thx Mukha, catch you later
me: ok bye

[Mukha]

I really hope actually that it wasn't HRE that told Rome in exchange for a promise not to make themselves the first target. Also, so that HRE could feel secure while away fighting France.

Meh, or Rome simply is making things up, and their suspicions were so high that they thought they may as well say that a CAN member is betraying the others.