[Spoilers] PBEM 2 Lurker Discussion - No Players!

[scooter]

Also, getting the culture from those specialists online X turns sooner seems like not a bad idea either if you're aiming for culture win.

[novice]

Also, getting the culture from those specialists online X turns sooner seems like not a bad idea either if you're aiming for culture win.

All the heavy lifting in a culture win is done much later, with culture multipliers in place. Building Sistine is just setting up the ground work. Delaying it X turns wouldn't matter at all.

EDIT: With the possible exception of getting doubled cultural output from the wonder itself in time for the big cultural push.

[MWIN]

What is going on with this game? No lurkers? Is Krill truly running away with this game?

[T-hawk]

We're lurking, just not much new lately. The diplo situation hasn't seen any change for a couple weeks. Once Yaz is killed for good, we may see some new shifts.

Yeah Krill is the monster. He got the most land of anyone, plus the island to his south (Square Leg's original starting spot before I moved him.) Thanks to Yaz attacking Darrell and Darrell returning the favor, Krill has been able to expand unopposed and clean up on wonders and tech. It will take a dogpile to beat him, though he's going to have Steel before anyone could get that going.

[Sullla]

I haven't followed this game too closely, but my general impression was that all these teams declaring war were absolutely nuts. Going in order:

- Ruff's attack against Yaz (to kill a scout?!) seemed like pure folly. Major hot war with Persia's immortals just to eliminate a 15-shield unit.

- Yaz's invasion of darrelljs was even more egregious. Wasn't fighting Ruff enough of a challenge? I can't believe someone actually CHOSE to get into a two-front war, and build a bunch of galleys to conduct a naval invasion in BC times. Even if Yaz had succeeded and taken out darrell's capital... what then? It would have been impossible to take and hold that land permanently, so far away from home. Just hurting darrell did nothing to help out Yaz. Very silly and unnecessary, IMO.

- darrell's decision to commit so many resources to a counter-invasion was also puzzling. What exactly was the point of that (?) Having a very long, drawn-out military struggle to capture... one city, at most, on a faraway island which couldn't be defended? Umm, OK...

It's definitely Krill's game to lose at this point. A classic case of why peaceful early game expansion nearly always beats early warfare in Civ4.

[Tatan]

@Sullla

To be fair to Yaz, I think that when he invaded Darell Yaz was under the impression that himself and Ruff had a truce and a NAP.

[Yazilliclick]

- Yaz's invasion of darrelljs was even more egregious. Wasn't fighting Ruff enough of a challenge? I can't believe someone actually CHOSE to get into a two-front war, and build a bunch of galleys to conduct a naval invasion in BC times. Even if Yaz had succeeded and taken out darrell's capital... what then? It would have been impossible to take and hold that land permanently, so far away from home. Just hurting darrell did nothing to help out Yaz. Very silly and unnecessary, IMO.

I'm going to disagree with parts of this. At the time I decided to attack Darrell I had a lengthy NAP signed with Ruff, the war was over and I had troops lying around. The move may not have been great all the same but I don't think it was bad either, it just turned out that. Same thing can happen to any decision in multiplayer game where so much depends on how others react.

My actual mistakes in that attack were:
A) Telling Ruff anything. That was stupid and probably what hurt me most this game.

B) Over committing and not calling it off once I was certain Ruff had betrayed the plan. I should have been willing to call it off when things started to look less then rosy.

C) Messing up my drop time giving Darrell extra time to prepare.

The plan wasn't really to hold it, though it was tempting, it was to burn his cap. More importantly it was to burn the great lighthouse in it as well which would have a huge impact on his GNP. Losing that and he probably wouldn't be where he is right now.

Also without advance notice of something coming there was always the possibility of doing further damage beyond that putting him further behind. All of that would have made it easier for me to expand on to the islands between and around us which he was already looking to take.

It's definitely Krill's game to lose at this point.

I agree with that Meets my goal basically of keeping Ruff, SL and Darrell from winning. Though I started to favor Dreylin more at the end simply because he was only one not to provide resources to my enemies though I don't really fault Krill for giving copper to Darrell.

[Yazilliclick]

@Sullla

To be fair to Yaz, I think that when he invaded Darell Yaz was under the impression that himself and Ruff had a truce and a NAP.

Yes we had a NAP then and I believe were at the opening stages of forming an alliance. At least that was my hope. The only real chance I think we both had there was to work closely together and that's what we talked about after forming the NAP. Unfortunately he obviously chose that he didn't want to go that route.

[pocketbeetle]

Nevermind Yaz.

I think all will agree you acquitted yourself pretty well in a 2.5 v 1 war, and certainly had an impact on the game.

[Sullla]

OK Yaz, not trying to beat you up here. You lasted a long time in your various wars, which was very well done.

But I still don't really understand - what would attacking darrell achieve? Let's assume that you were successful and managed to capture his capital. Then... what? You'd have to raze the city, because there was no way you would have had enough forces to take and hold the location (not with those long, over-water supply routes). Even if by some miracle you were able to take and hold his capital, that's an extreme amount of cost and unit investment to take a single city. Not to mention, unnecessarily making another enemy for the rest of the game!

I really don't want to seem like a jerk here, and I know I wasn't involved in playing this game. It just seems like you would have been much better off not launching that attack (NAP with Ruff or not!) and building up your own civ economically. Just hurting other teams doesn't really do that much to help you win the game, unless you can strengthen yourself in the process.

EDIT: If it makes you feel better, I also think Ruff has played a very poor game, and was rather dishonest diplomatically with you.