[no players] Lurker Thread

[Gaspar]

I wasn't implying he was throwing the game (though I don't think that was directed at me anyway) just saying that in talking to him he believes he has no chance to win.

[zakalwe]

Nah, it was just directed at the general tone of the discussion. In general, I think lurkers are a bit quick to label actions as "throwing the game", failing in particular to take their own omniscient perspective into account.

[Ceiliazul]

No one 'threw the game' by any means. It has been apparent for a long time that the ONLY way the outcome could change is a Yuri/Mack joint action.

The game has been realistically over for a long time, but there was a chance (however small) that Yuri would join Mackoti in war.

If i was a player i would not concede yet, but as a lurker the conclusion is inevitable.

[oledavy]

Our scouts have sharp eyes, bring news! Many men with horses come riding great wooden fish. Use Iron to protect your coastal cities bordering Mackoti, Thessalonica and Iconium!

I love Seven's diplo

* 2 cities to NS7 for world map and some resources - I have no idea why they offered this deal, I even checked with Seven it was a real offer, not a bug. The cities he asked for are the holy city and the Moai city. He can take them from our cold dead hands. Decline

Pity Yuris missed the point of the message. Then again, I would challenge anybody to properly decode a message like that

[Ceiliazul]

Pity Yuris missed the point of the message. Then again, I would challenge anybody to properly decode a message like that

I would have had the same reaction as Yuri. "huh? is that a mistake?"

But it's a good try.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, there's absolutely no way I'd ever get that.

[Ceiliazul]

Is it ok to weigh in with a neutral viewpoint in the tech thread?

I'm thinking something like, " This has been great game to lurk, and I've learned a ton... it sounds like members of both Ludicator and NS7 had some hopes dashed this turn and aren't interested in hearing the other complain about their misfortune.

As an unattached observer, I hope you guys can get past this."

Now, a bit less neutral: Seven's reaction to a relatively small matter while every other player would love to be in their shoes reminds me very vividly of the moment in PB2 when Spulla exploded because they were expected to delete 2 cavs as punishment for some rule violation.

The situations are very different, I'm not comparing the inputs. I'm comparing Seven and Spulla's volcanic response. Each team had such a lead that the outcome of the specific discussion would not change the game. I felt Spulla had a classy option that would have capped their stunning gameplay... but instead the whole game came to an embittered halt.

I sincerely hope Seven chooses differently.

[oledavy]

Now, a bit less neutral: Seven's reaction to a relatively small matter while every other player would love to be in their shoes reminds me very vividly of the moment in PB2 when Spulla exploded because they were expected to delete 2 cavs as punishment for some rule violation.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Gaspar]

The thing is, I actually believe that Seven's outburst is related to his overbearing desire for complete and total fairness and honesty. I must say when he made the 12-year old comment at luddite my first thought was "And you sound like one as well, since only small children without siblings still think the world is completely fair." But I don't mean to insult Seven here, its his world-view and he's entitled to it. I'm not even one to say he's wrong in this instance though I must say I didn't think of it as a bug when luddicator posted that was what they had done in their thread.

The issue, and this comes up frequently for Seven, is one of tone. He can't seem to resist coming off as a complete ass when these issues crop up because he is so vehement in his head that he is right. Even if that's correct, you're not going to sell that to anyone else by taking a holier-than-thou tone. You act aggressively, you're going to find people get defensive - its the natural order of things. That's not conducive to finding solutions in a democracy, which a PBEM rules situation is. Might actually do better to have novice be the one to have these conversations, he's much better at empathy.

As far as the overall point - I hate to say this but the Spullla reaction in PB2 and Seven's here is what makes them the players they are. You'll find most of the absolute best players here cannot look at things the way you two or I - good, solid players who can win with some breaks going our way do. They cannot countenance maximizing every opportunity available to them - that is in fact what makes them such great players. Of course, if you're on the other end, to paraphrase Seven himself, you feel like its someone asking you why you're starving when you've been unable to find a job for 5 years.

Anyway, the interesting part of this game to lurk is over now so I'm not fussed either way if they end it.

[Ilios]

:zzz: