Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore

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[SPOILERS] Commodore, Mist and the Weed. A Farce in three acts.

So distractions of an impressively lush land aside, we're still tracking on the Guilds run. The elephant island is interesting, and the areas are almost too big for much conflict, but we still can royally mess up someone else's day with our cataphracts. It's time for another installment of:

[Image: Catafact.JPG]

Today, we discuss counters; the list of hard counters is simple: Rifles. If we had Ottomen kicking around, we'd be warry of janisaries, but as it is muskets don't hold much to fear. The usual dribs and drabs of medieval warfare, like maces, crossbows, and knights, are all respectable in large numbers but cannot come even close to matching 'phracts on anything like an equal hammer conversion ratio. The three primary worries we'll face on our cataphract quest for glory are longbows, pikes, and war elephants.

[Image: Longbow.jpg]

Longbows are normally what knights are made to counter, and cataphracts certainly don't do worse against them. The point is, due to the lack first strike immunity, neither do they do much better. Longbows aren't all that scary on the open field, but unfortunately, we're not really going to be facing them on the open field much. With stone at the capitals, walls are going to be dirt cheap and once the 'phract stacks show up, they'll be whipped in everywhere. Behind those walls enjoying all sorts of city-defense bonuses will be longbows, cheap and plentiful. The calculus for killing longbows is simple, throw 'phracts at them until they die...generally with combat bonuses matched against CG promotions, our 'phracts will enjoy a slightly better than even rate of exchange...which translates to a net loss in hammers.

Anti-longbow doctrine is one and the same as anti-city doctrine, use cataphract's superior mobility to fork, divide, and crush the weak points. depending on where iron is, if we can cut off the victim's supply then these little guys will be their best defenders.

[Image: Pike.jpg]

Pikemen are the natural counter to knights, and do well against non-Spanish curs...so yeah, pikemen do well against cataphracts. The trouble for pikes is in the cataphracts' much higher natural base strength and how % modifiers work in Civ 4. A vanilia pike is strength 6 +100%, or 12, against the 'phract's own 12. However, bonuses are summed and then added, so a shock cataphract against a C2 pike is 12 vs. 6+(100+20-35=85%) (net 11.1). So while pikes, particularly on defensive terrain, do get odds on the 'phracts, they don't get amazing odds. So, see the previous song and verse about forking.

[Image: WE.jpg]

War elephants are probably the worst threat we're going to face on our cataphract romp around the globe, particularly in the hands of scooter. They have a higher base strength than pikes, do pretty well on the offense, and generally are banned because they come into play obscenely early if beelined and have no counter on the attack until pikes are in play. They are slow, but with Theocracy, Vassalage, barracks and a ger, they can start out with formation, which covers a multitude of sins.

Seven placed ivory on icy little islands in the middle of the sea, which if anything makes it even more a priority for everyone to settle, because in an Always War game like this, those 2-commerce overseas trade routes are more precious than gold (at 9+ cities wink ). So far, they're the only IC-TRs we've seen, so the ivory will be getting settled on...which makes it darn hard to kill.

WE, however, do have weaknesses of their own. Like all mounted units, they receive no defensive bonuses, so they go under if someone foolishly places them on hills or forests. They're slow like pikes and longbows, so forking still works although they certainly enjoy being on the attack. The general plan for dealing with WE is going to be to cut off our victim from his ivory as soon as possible, ideally even with HA/axes in this earlier game. Again, it all comes down to initiative.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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Commodore Wrote:but that plains hill is looking very tempting to me. Shares capital deer, gets gold/pigs...

Which plains hill shares capital deer and gets gold/pigs? I don't see it.
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Ilios Wrote:Which plains hill shares capital deer and gets gold/pigs? I don't see it.

Ah, good catch, I saw the deer as in the BFC, but it's actually two diagonal from the PH. With four(!) Fin lake tiles lighthouseable, the spot 1W of the PH is best anyway.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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Play another turn, meet more people, declare war on them, get a potentially annoying scout....yeah, it's about that time. Serdoa's scout, in particular, is annoying. He's already determined (because of obvious 2nd-ring borders) that we own Buddhism, and he's in position to play a merry hell with the micro next turn if he sits on the mine. Oh, which if it is copper, yields will show we lack BW still.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0061.JPG]

Brian is one of the smaller capitals, whereas Serdoa and us are the vertical kings. Probably for the same reason too, preparing to run merchants for an MC bulb. I'm agreeing with Mist, Colossus is probably out.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0063.JPG]

I shuffled and added some signs. I was thinking Old Man and the Sea as first, but Hemingway is too late, Melville is definitely what we want to call the whaleburg. Melville is probably our next settle after MacDonald and Dickens, need to start growing cottages.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0062.JPG]

Just a little aside, switching from this game and 31 is pretty jarring visually with the signposts. Byzantine grey is unassuming and almost hard to make out, whereas the Japanese scarlet signs are bleeding neon scars on the map. Just kind of an odd contrast.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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So, Imperialistic settler being built in huge capital, let's title this shot "Zoom-zoom". In six turns, we'll have MacDonald up and running, and barring idiots (Lewwyn) we'll be working on a worker/settler pair for Dickens.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0077.JPG]

Serdoa for his part is being quite annoying, but that's fine, we'll still get those crabs netted before MacDonald needs them. His choking actions certainly support my theory that our copper be there.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0078.JPG]

I've got our warrior skedaddling back to base to deal with the scout infestation. If there be copper in that mine then there also be horses in that pasture, which makes Melville even more important. Now we just need to figure out how to put culture in there.

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0079.JPG]

Our fat and happy [strike]victim[/strike] rival Brian is being fat and happy, and also managed to figure out how to chop down trees. We'll not be bother with that until we're at the three-cities mark. :rolleyes:

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0080.JPG]

One interesting side effect of eschewing early chopping...our capital has much better hammer potential for the Oracle attempt. With some darned suboptimal play, we might even be able to snag the wonder!
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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Commodore Wrote:Pikemen are the natural counter to knights, and do well against non-Spanish curs...so yeah, pikemen do well against cataphracts. The trouble for pikes is in the cataphracts' much higher natural base strength and how % modifiers work in Civ 4. A vanilia pike is strength 6 +100%, or 12, against the 'phract's own 12. However, bonuses are summed and then added, so a shock cataphract against a C2 pike is 12 vs. 6+(100+20-35=85%) (net 11.1). So while pikes, particularly on defensive terrain, do get odds on the 'phracts, they don't get amazing odds.

Combat promotions are applied before percentage modifiers to the base strength of their own unit, IIRC. So on defense your C2 pike would have 7.2 + 75% = 12.6, and your shock 'Phract would have 13.2 attacking. Against a C1 'phract the C2 pike would have a strength of 14.4 on defense. Of course a defending pike would typically have cultural/terrain bonuses as well as a fortification bonus, giving the 'phract even worse odds.
I have to run.
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novice Wrote:Combat promotions are applied before percentage modifiers to the base strength of their own unit, IIRC. So on defense your C2 pike would have 7.2 + 75% = 12.6, and your shock 'Phract would have 13.2 attacking. Against a C1 'phract the C2 pike would have a strength of 14.4 on defense. Of course a defending pike would typically have cultural/terrain bonuses as well as a fortification bonus, giving the 'phract even worse odds.

Actually what Commodore posted is right. Combat promos are worse on defense because they just get summed into the other % bonuses. Only on attack are they applied separately.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Actually what Commodore posted is right. Combat promos are worse on defense because they just get summed into the other % bonuses. Only on attack are they applied separately.

Yeah, and as I said before, pikes do get odds on 'phracts most of the time...just not incredible odds.

Also:

Commodore Wrote:...and barring idiots (Lewwyn)...

[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0083.JPG]

frown
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Actually what Commodore posted is right. Combat promos are worse on defense because they just get summed into the other % bonuses. Only on attack are they applied separately.

That's inconsistent... and good to know! smile

So what relative strengths will a C2 [edit: Pike] attacking a shock 'Phract have?
I have to run.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Actually what Commodore posted is right. Combat promos are worse on defense because they just get summed into the other % bonuses. Only on attack are they applied separately.

Just to clear up some confusion, (or add further to it):

Commodore Wrote:a shock cataphract against a C2 pike is 12 vs. 6+(100+20-35=85%) (net 11.1).

This isn't quite right either then. The correct calculations would be the shock cataphract having strength 13.2 (from Combat 1) and the pike having 6+(100+20-25=95%) = 11.7 strength.
I have to run.
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