[SPOILER] Yell0w - Rhoanna, Hippus

[Mafro]

I think the million-ducat question in the game at this moment is this: where is Mardoc going to send his Priests of Winter?

In looking at his GNP, Mardoc's economy appears to be in the tank, so I'm thinking he's got to put those priests to use now. Pillage gold could potentially allow him to keep advancing his tech, which he needs in order to avoid becoming obsolete in a few dozen turns. Given his GNP troubles, I even think razing cities might be in his best interest, so as to avoid additional maintenance costs.

In looking at his possible targets, I think he's got a tough decision. Here's my read of the targets, excluding HidingKneel from the equation, as we haven't made contact with the Elohim yet:

#1, the Calabim: he's already at war with Molach, so the Calabim seem an obvious target. Mardoc started the war, so he's got to believe he may have made himself an enemy, and that payback will be coming at some point. And it would be much better to fight PoWs versus bloodpets instead of PoWs versus vampires or even moroi.

#2, the Amurites: they have the highest GNP and the smallest army. If that GNP is being driven by cottages, then they're offering a lot of pillage gold. Plus, better to hit them before they can build firebows, which given their GNP may be in the not-too-distant future. However, the Amurite worldspell will eliminate ice elementals from the battlefield, which cripples the potential power of Priests of Winter. Still, given the small size of the Amurite army, Mardoc could just force his way through it. Also, it appears Molach and Suttree haven't made contact yet, which I believe means he could declare on the Amurites without the Calabim being aware. This would allow him to put his forces into offensive mode without worrying about a Calabim strike timed to take him while he's otherwise occupied.

#3, us: Mardoc has got to know we're going after the Guild of the Nine and mounted mercenaries. He can also see we've got a strong economy that we can use to field a powerful army starting pretty darn soon, and he's likely noticed we can trade coin, which means we have Currency. However, he probably doesn't realize that GotN is only 12 turns from being completed, and that bronze will be hooked in around the same time. He's also got to think that we've still got our worldspell, with which we could potentially disrupt an invasion (not sure we actually could, but it's got to make him wonder). And the Calabim would be aware of it and could potentially invade him while he's invading us. Also, we've got a forward position to notify us of an invasion, and a fair amount of distance between his lands and ours...he's at least 6 turns away from reaching our capital, even if he has given his PoWs Mobility I, which is extremely unlikely, and 8 turns without it.

So...I'd be surprised if we were the first target. I could easily see us being the second, however, after Molach....

We should see his decision in the next few days...!

[Mafro]

Wow, it's turn 84 and Molach's power is really spiking. He's probably got training yards in place now and is upgrading his bloodpets to moroi and/or just straight building them as fast as possible. He's got to believe he's the likely target for an immediate attack from Mardoc's PoWs and is prepping for the fight.

(This lack of diplomacy is great...early actions reverberate throughout the game...let's hope they don't make peace....)

I still think Mardoc's got to act, as his GNP appears to be in the toilet and the balance between him and Molach isn't likely to improve in his favor. S7 Priests of Winter and S5 Ice Elementals are brutal right now, but won't be forever. Maybe he's going to roll the dice on the Deepening and hope for some blizzards? I don't recall how impactful they are, but I suspect they aren't worth it.

Still, with enough S5 morois, Molach could give him a good fight. Heck, if Molach keeps upping his power at this rate, in a few more turns he might even be able to go on the offensive. Flauros lacks Raiders (thankfully), but moroi are still wicked with burning blood. At the very least he could begin a pillaging campaign and further weaken Mardoc while filling his own coffers (might not be a bad strategy for us if we end up in a war not of our choosing).

Nine turns until we get GotN.

I think we should start thinking about the composition of our army. A stack of mounted mercenaries can get the job done if it's big enough, but we could be more effective if that force was augmented with magic. In particular, I think Body mana is a must-have. Adepts with haste (and Mobility I) are always great, even better when they turn into mages with regeneration. I also think fireball mages are a great way for a fast-moving army to get access to both bombarding and collateral damage.

We have two nodes in (or soon to be in) our territory...so in my opinion we should nab Mysticism and Knowledge of the Ether in short order and get some adepts gaining experience, followed by Alteration and Elementalism prior to our first offensive war. The first two are only 535 beakers total, 6 turns of research at 100% (probably 9 unless we find ourselves some gold). I actually think this is more urgent than Construction, Writing, and Mathematics.

After that perhaps we go Smelting and Iron Working...unless we want to pursue techs that further improve our economy. However, unless we're willing to initiate trade with other civilizations I don't see much opportunity there, with the possible exception of Runes of Kilmorph (which is only 383 beakers after we get Mysticism).

Just thinking out loud here....

[Yell0w]

Sorry for the lack of reports here. I'll manage to write another one this weekend.

The thing is we have a 4 mover army with MM even a mobility promoted hasted adept got 3.

I'd actually like to finish Construction to get access to BRIDGE BUILDING speeding up our movement A LOT. It also let's us irrigate which is nice, giving us good food in our new cities.
After Construction.. there isn't really a need to research anything for a while. We are ahead of the curve research wise, thanks to two popped techs. After Construction finishes - which I mainly want for the bridges - my plan was to run 100% Gold and then pump out about 15-20 MM's at once and fuck up one of our neighbors.

[Mafro]

The thing is we have a 4 mover army with MM even a mobility promoted hasted adept got 3.

Yes, but I imagine we're going to want to pillage along the way. With GotN, it's essentially like recruiting forces from the enemy. The 4-movers can get one pillage in each while the entire force moves along at 3 moves per turn - still faster than anything else out there. Put another way, haste allows each unit in the stack one additional pillage, which means it can translate to a lot of coin, and thus a lot more MMs. And if we absolutely need to hit a target 4 tiles away, a 3-mover mage with fireball is up to the task.

I'd actually like to finish Construction to get access to BRIDGE BUILDING speeding up our movement A LOT. It also let's us irrigate which is nice, giving us good food in our new cities.

Yeah, you make a good argument for Construction, though it will only impact movement within our own, river-rich territory. Thus, it's an efficiency and defensive military tech, not an offensive military tech. Still, the ability to irrigate is probably worth it as long as we continue pumping out settlers, which we clearly want to do for at least another half dozen cities.

After Construction.. there isn't really a need to research anything for a while. We are ahead of the curve research wise, thanks to two popped techs. After Construction finishes - which I mainly want for the bridges - my plan was to run 100% Gold and then pump out about 15-20 MM's at once and fuck up one of our neighbors.

While I definitely think your plan would allow us to win a war, I believe we'll have a hard time winning a second or third war without fireball and regeneration. The lack of the former will increase our losses with every city we take, and the lack of the latter will dramatically lessen the amount of force we can put into combat each turn due to the need to stop and heal wounded units. A side effect of that is that it will take much longer to stack up promotions on a few of our units and turn them into city breakers or elite Commando pillagers.

Maybe we can research Mysticism and KotE while GotN and - more importantly - money changers finish building. Once money changers are in place, research is effectively more costly (compared to running 125% Gold), so we should tech what we need while they're still building. I'm certain that adepts and the later mages they will become will easily make those 535 beakers (roughly 4 MMs, I believe) worthwhile.

Oh, and I'm thinking the Amurites might be a good first target.

They are weak, relatively close, and with a high GNP destined to get powerful units, especially firebows, in the not-too-distant future. If we can take them out before that happens, that'd be a good thing.

Also, their worldspell will end spellcasting for about a dozen turns, so better to take them out while spellcasting isn't a big help to us (which it will increasingly be as we get adepts and mages in the field). That said, if Mardoc starts to pound on Molach, getting the Amurites to pop their worldspell could even things out by taking the ice elementals off the field. That could be another reason why it would be good to have an adept or two in our force, to give Suttree a reason to pop his worldspell.

The ideal would be to use our first war to train up our army and get tons of pillage gold, while eliminating the Amurites and keeping Mardoc and Molach in a bloody standoff (even a cold war wouldn't be bad, as they sink hammers into units instead of infrastructure and coin into army upkeep). We then go after the Elohim, get them to pop their worldspell, and while they're under Sanctuary we either build up a massive war chest for when it ends, or we declare on whoever looks to be winning the Frosty-Vamp war.

We've got several more turns before we have to make a decision here, and things could definitely happen to impact it...but it's fun to start thinking about this stage of the game....

[Yell0w]

We don't have that many turns I think... I wanted to swap to Consumption next turn and start saving gold after we finish Construction so we can purchase ~10 MM's right away and start hitting one of our neighbors. Since both Mardoc and Molach pose a military threat I'd like to go after one of them. My hope though was to hit the Amurites with those MM's and finish them. While getting enough pillage gold to buy MM's if we need them should either Mardoc or Molach attack. You make some good points for Adepts. My thought process was to finish writing and Math and then just purchase masses of MM's to kill everyone.

[Mafro]

We don't have that many turns I think... I wanted to swap to Consumption next turn and start saving gold after we finish Construction so we can purchase ~10 MM's right away and start hitting one of our neighbors. Since both Mardoc and Molach pose a military threat I'd like to go after one of them. My hope though was to hit the Amurites with those MM's and finish them. While getting enough pillage gold to buy MM's if we need them should either Mardoc or Molach attack. You make some good points for Adepts. My thought process was to finish writing and Math and then just purchase masses of MM's to kill everyone.

Is the thought behind Writing and Mathematics to get Gambling Houses to raise our cap? If so, I'm not sure it'll be needed, or is a better investment than Mysticism and KotE.

We can now build Bath Houses, which gets us another 3 , and we also have Ultigar and its gold resource to consider. That said, our cap is going to increase at least 5 above where it is now (Consumption will cause our markets to give +1 ), and if we need it higher we can build Carnivals and/or Theatres, which gets us to +7 - double our current cap. And a successful military campaign should bring us happiness resources, assuming we build roads and capture cities.

I like the idea of hitting the Amurites soon, though their power is spiking as well - it just passed ours. Personally, I think we should stop building warriors, as they don't serve much purpose other than as garrisons (and even then they won't be proper city defenders for long) and we already have 19 of them, and invest our hammers in either money changers (coin, which is future MMs) or carnivals (growth, which is also future MMs). While keeping our own power graph up may tell the others to stay back, I don't think we're under threat of invasion from anyone before we can field MMs.

I still think an all-MM army is going to break against the first really tough city (think fortified S5 moroi behind 50% defense). MMs are great for pillaging, but without access to the City Raider line of promotions they die in large numbers against staunch defenders. And our force will get wiped out against the first opponent to marry collateral damage (or summons) with numeric superiority (or assassins).

My two cents.

[Yell0w]

We don't have that many turns I think... I wanted to swap to Consumption next turn and start saving gold after we finish Construction so we can purchase ~10 MM's right away and start hitting one of our neighbors. Since both Mardoc and Molach pose a military threat I'd like to go after one of them. My hope though was to hit the Amurites with those MM's and finish them. While getting enough pillage gold to buy MM's if we need them should either Mardoc or Molach attack. You make some good points for Adepts. My thought process was to finish writing and Math and then just purchase masses of MM's to kill everyone.

Is the thought behind Writing and Mathematics to get Gambling Houses to raise our cap? If so, I'm not sure it'll be needed, or is a better investment than Mysticism and KotE.

We can now build Bath Houses, which gets us another 3 , and we also have Ultigar and its gold resource to consider. That said, our cap is going to increase at least 5 above where it is now (Consumption will cause our markets to give +1 ), and if we need it higher we can build Carnivals and/or Theatres, which gets us to +7 - double our current cap. And a successful military campaign should bring us happiness resources, assuming we build roads and capture cities.

I like the idea of hitting the Amurites soon, though their power is spiking as well - it just passed ours. Personally, I think we should stop building warriors, as they don't serve much purpose other than as garrisons (and even then they won't be proper city defenders for long) and we already have 19 of them, and invest our hammers in either money changers (coin, which is future MMs) or carnivals (growth, which is also future MMs). While keeping our own power graph up may tell the others to stay back, I don't think we're under threat of invasion from anyone before we can field MMs.

I still think an all-MM army is going to break against the first really tough city (think fortified S5 moroi behind 50% defense). MMs are great for pillaging, but without access to the City Raider line of promotions they die in large numbers against staunch defenders. And our force will get wiped out against the first opponent to marry collateral damage (or summons) with numeric superiority (or assassins).

My two cents.

Collateral needs to hit... I don't plan standing around and waiting for it, if they want to hit us with collateral they need to attack out.
Still again, you make some good points. It will be challenging to balance research and troops.
I build those warriors because if I revolt we won't be building any warriors for quite some time. I wanted to have enough to slow down an morroi or PoW attack for 1-2 turns to finish GotN if necessary. Also I didn't want to be lowest in power.

Ultigar will be a priority as soon as our first attack force is purchased.

Yes Gambling houses are a big part o math, though it would force us into "normal" research.

I get your point about Myst and KotE, I want to have Constuction, and I want an attack force, then I'll swap to Myst and KotE, which I wouldn't do without you.

[Mafro]

Ultigar will be a priority as soon as our first attack force is purchased.

I want to have Constuction, and I want an attack force, then I'll swap to Myst and KotE, which I wouldn't do without you.

Sounds like a plan.

Sorry to be such a dednagger....

[Mafro]

Things with Consumption are looking good - 100+ gold per turn at 0% research. I notice we didn't switch to Apprenticeship - was that on purpose? Not having Apprenticeship impacts us probably the least, given we will likely be buying the bulk of our forces (and I don't think the +2 XP applies to recruited units).

Guild of the Nine is 6 turns away, and we should be able to hook up the copper in our territory by that time.

Not sure I see much use in the Palisade being built in Murousbane, or the Theatre due to follow it. I think we'd do better with builds that will help our economy, such as a Money Changer and Courthouse.

Speaking of Money Changers, it's nice to see those being built, especially in cities with a base commerce of 20+! Also, with Wheat about to be hooked up in the next couple turns we'll get another +10% commerce in our capital, which will certainly further the cause.

There's still tons of high-end real estate to expand into...what do you think about some more settlers after the Money Changers go in? Now that we've got a better view of what's around us, I'm thinking we should prioritize settlements that will help our overall empire with . I see Wine to our west and Ivory to our east. The former we can hook up almost immediately, while the latter will require that we put 287 beakers into Hunting - about 3 turns at 100% research at our current rate.

Oh, and it looks like there's Sugar just across the water from Gaene. It's annoying to have our territory bisected by an inland sea, but it's good land and the probably makes it worth it. Perhaps we settle the Wine and then immediately south to the Sugar.

Suttree switched to Arete and Aristocracy last turn, which is a powerful combination. He'll have coin flowing in while being able to invest it into infrastructure.

Molach's power continues to spike. Thankfully, he and Mardoc are still at war...though the power graph still shows no signs of open conflict. The two of them have markedly lower GNPs than do we and Suttree. This might be a case where preparing for battle costs them the war.

Looks like we found Elohim borders and will be able to make contact with them in a turn or two. It'll be nice to have a complete picture of the competitive landscape. Looking at the world map, I'm guessing HidingKneel is already sharing a border with Molach, or is close to it. Maybe he's part of the broader tensions between Molach and Mardoc.

We might consider keeping the bulk of our army in coin form for as long as possible, to avoid the upkeep. If the others are sinking a significant portion of their production into building troops, and a big chunk of their economy into maintaining those troops, we could potentially win the long game by continuing to expand. Maybe combine that with an opportunistic attempt to take out Suttree early.

To that end, we might want to consider roading towards him even now, so that when we have our forces bought and paid for we can cross the distance to his lands as quickly as possible. A 10-turn march could result in our army being met with firebows.

[Yell0w]

I just painfully learned not to underestimate a Moroi sneak attack, to that end I want to shift two more warriors in our border city and get the Palisades up. The theater afterwards is optional but will be necessary if we want to compete in a culture border war.

I'd like nothing more than to ignore that threat and just build a Money Changer, but I won't.
Additionally I'll road towards Molach in a couple of turns to "offer" him trade routes, that also means he can reach us way faster, so there is no way around at least Palisades. Honestly I'd feel a lot saver if we had Palisade and a Wall up.