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Civ6 SG 3 - Stingy Hojo and his cheap districts

Now to military matters.

First, some general strategy. I agree that we need to retreat our units and let Rome come to us, killing their units piecemeal. I agree that keeping the warrior alive is a must, since we relly need that sword upgrade. I don't agree with taking Vilnius, it's a poor city and a bit far, I think we need to set our eyes into Ostia and Antium. Those cities don't have a district up, nor are they building it, so those are keeps if captured.



Those two cities plus a city to the NE of the barb camp would form a nice core of land. I think we can work from that position to make further gains against Rome or even America. Anyway, I think we can try to mount a counter attack after the retreat, when we kill a part of Rome's forces, and gun for those cities.

Opinions?

On the tactical side of things, we have two theaters. Here's the northern one.



My idea here is to attack the archer with the sword and finish it with the archer, moving 1NE before attacking. The sword is on a hill, so it's safe from counter attacks from the warriors and next turn it has a promotion to heal. I think the sword ZOC will prevent the warriors from reaching the archer, but even if that doesn't work that way, only one warrior can attack the archer and that's not enough for a kill. Notice that the forested hill has a road, so an archer could come from the fog and shoot the sword, but that won't be enough to kill it, I don't think.

The other option would be to kill the southern warrior. It's too risky, in my opinion, because the sword will be too exposed. The only thing that option would accomplish is in the second theater, on the south:



By killing that warrior, we could move the red-lined archer into the forested hill and prevent the scout and spear from killing it. That's the best chance I see to save that unit and it's a pretty bad one, since it'd require the AI to goof it up and not kill the archer with its archer. Considering this, I see two options for that archer. Either we pillage the district, which gives us some faith and delays Rome Prophet, or we hurt some Roman unit.

We could try to combine the red-lined archer attack with attacks from the other archers to finish some unit off, but I don't think that's a good move. I think the rest of the army should just retreat. I highlighted the path I think the warrior should take, we'll need 5 turns before we can upgrade it, and a few more turns to place him in an useful spot. The big deal about losing warriors is that upgrading warriors to swords is the quickest way to get a powerful army going. And since we already finished IW, and we have a source of Iron, we cannot build any more warriors, just straight swords.

Anyway, I think the warriors should move as shown and that the archers should both move 1 NE each. It's not the safest retreat route for the southern archer, but going 1E will mess up with the warrior movement on the following turns and the unit will just take too long to reach a meaningful area of the map. Better to risk taking a shot than making the unit useless for so long. After the second 1NE move, the archer will be safe due to the terrain anyway.

Finally, we know Rome has Masonry, as Rome is building walls.



I think we pillage the stone with the scout, which will speed up PP. And I think we should try and pillage the other stone tile, to further speed up PP. I don't see better uses for the scout right now and since Rome is building walls, it won't be finishing a unit any time soon.

Those are my thoughts for the turn. Comments and discussion is not only appreciated, but it's what a SG is all about.
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(January 10th, 2018, 19:28)Bacchus Wrote: Ugh. I can somewhat understand Military Tradition in our situation, but Mysticism? Ouch. I was too preoccupied with military matters discussed above to even notice it on screens. Early Empire inspiration just wasn't happening, and sometimes that's life, you are right. Maybe we can lemonade by harvesting the rice and shooting to 6 pop? We are not gonna need extra food at this city for a long time.

That's a good suggestion, but considering the opportunity to pillage Rome's quarry with the scout, I think it won't be needed. We could wait with the scout to put the culture on PP after the Inspiration, but I don't think it's worth it. And just the 4 turns we need to move the builder and harvest the resource already makes the Inspiration not worth it, now that I look at things. Especially if we use the envoy in Nan Madol to boost our cultural output.
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Agree on all acounts, exposing the sword to maybe save a redlined archer is a bad idea. Pillage the district and cut our losses. Killing the archer north makes more sense.

Someone should post who is up next, like in the Orion games.
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(January 11th, 2018, 08:11)TheArchduke Wrote: Agree on all acounts, exposing the sword to maybe save a redlined archer is a bad idea. Pillage the district and cut our losses. Killing the archer north makes more sense.

Someone should post who is up next, like in the Orion games.

Ichabod <- UP, I'll play tonight
TheArchduke <- On deck
Bacchus
Emperor K
Quagma Blast
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My 2 cents for whats it is worth.

Well I feel responsible for our current situation, however no point in dwelling on it.

-Concerning our builder I would switch immediately to sword or archer, we need to get another city, and Rome is building walls, wont be long before his other cities have them.
-I think the envoy in Nan Model is the way to go.
-Can we slowly move our troops (while killing roman troops if possible) towards ostia?
-I think Ostia and Antium should be our focus, we are badly behind so fighting the uphill better sooner rather than later, may be the way to go.

Other than that the tech path seems sound for the moment, and unless you guys want to settle the lake spot between us and Vilinus I would say just continue to pump military.
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I played 5 turns and we have a new challenge to overcome.

The turns started pretty well. Pillaging the quarry put us 1 turn from EE, which coupled with the Nan Madol envoy made us a lot closer to PP. I killed the archer as planned and moved everything else as discussed, including pillaging the HS with the red-lined archer. I switched the builder out, as suggested, to finish the archer that was partially built (later, I started a sword).



After everything moved.

The archer was killed by Rome's scout, as expected, and that gave us another point of WW. Kyoto is at -3 amenities, while being at size 5. With EE done, I switched to +1 prod, in the lack of anything better, while keeping -1 gold oer military to keep us in the black.

By the way, the ZoC of the sword on the hill didn't prevent Rome from attacking our northern archer.




Watch out for this piece of idiotic coding by the devs. You can shoot from a low terrain tile, over a hill tile, if the enemy is on a forested hill tile. I'm guessing the units are on the top of the trees? rolleye  That little quirk in the combat rules already cost me units on previous games and now I have it screenshoted. I'm guessing they have heights for the tiles and both forest andhhills raise height by one, which allows lower terrain attacks. In Civ 5 it worked logically, where you couldn't shoot from a hill over a forested hill, but neither could you shoot over a hill into a forested hill.

Anyway,I didn't make that attack, just showing the possibility. What I did was attack the northern warrior with both the sword and the archer, killing it. That risked the sword being attacked by an archer from the fog, which perhaps could kill it, but it was a very unlikely scenario, so I went for it. As shown:



By the way, Rome reached PP and adopted Oligarchy, for +4 strength on melee units.



In the south, I retreated and Rome kept in pursuit. Here, I decided to stand my ground. Our units were protected from ranged attacks due to the hilly terrain (and Rome's archer was near Rome, the city) and we could finish those units without risking ours. The healthy archer (promo already avaiable) killed the scout, the archer on the iron shot the warrior (earning the XP for a promo) and the archer on the Camp moved to the forest, antecipating the counter-attack on the roman warrior next turn.



I also moved the scout to pillage the other quarry, even though I could see Rome's archer. I think speeding up PP was worth the risk of losing that unit, and a single archer wouldn't be able to finish the scout. Unfortunately, Rome finished its walls on the interturn and killed the scout, comboing with the archer.

My other plan worked as expected, and we killed another warrior. I started moving everything north, planning the attack on Ostia. On turn 53, Roosevelt declared war on Rome and things were looking up.




I moved everything towards the 15 strength Ostia, we would have a 75% health sword and 4 full health, promoted archers to try and take it. It looked doable. Unfortunately, we need 3 melee units to siege Ostia and we only had one near the city. The other warrior reached our borders to upgrade on turn 55 and we still had some turns to go until the new sword finished.




And then disaster struck. Rome finished a legion, which bumped every city strength to 30! I even forgot to take a screenshot. Anyway, I'm not sure about what to do now and I stopped my turnset. There's no way we can take Ostia with archers now that it has 30 str and there's the looming threat of the legions going around. There's no city with 40 health, so perhaps it was an upgrade; anyway, there's no telling where the unit is.

We are in a very tough spot. We need to wait for the 3 swords to have a chance at capturing Ostia, puting it under siege. But by waiting for so long, we risk the city finishing walls or a district, which will make capturing it impossible or useless. The timings are just not working out here...

I see two options:

1. Fall back, try to take Vilnius.
2. Retreat to the land between Rome and us, wait for the three swords to gather while trying to snipe units with ranged attacks, come back to Ostia when we have enough melee to siege/capture.

Anyway, we are in a tough spot. Suggestions are welcome. Is it time to plan for religious cheese? Perhaps tourism cheese? lol  Can the cheap districts save us?

Speaking of districts, there are 2 civs with Prophet GPP already. If we want a religion, we need to finish that HS ASAP.
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Wow, to be honest in SP I would restart. Yeah, sue me.

We are kinda pot commited on the war path now, but banging our head against legions will only risk even more.

Can you toss us the save?
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(January 11th, 2018, 23:52)TheArchduke Wrote: Can you toss us the save?

Of course. It is attached.

I also forgot to say that ew have a GG in the works. But we are currently at18/60, if I'm not mistaken, so it won't be helping with our immediate problems. We could run Strategos when we reach PP and we could work on a GG project, for what that's worth.


Attached Files
.civ6save   HOJO TOKIMUNE 55 1840 BC.Civ6Save (Size: 9.3 MB / Downloads: 2)
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Hmm, I think our options are limited, build swords, get to Oligarchy, slot a GG card and see this through.

And hope that Rome throws away its legion.
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I agree with the duke, try and fight our way out.

Who wanted an easy game any ways.
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