Ipecac`s Warrior stayed in place. I decided to pressurize our eastern neighbour a bit. Our own Warrior is now adjacent to his Warrior. I think we will continue a bit further to find out whether there`s a Settler on its way (I suspect that it is).
Our western Warrior saw battle this turn as a Barbarian Warrior attacked. We won but took a few hits so we need some time to heal up. Note that our Warrior in Busan moved 2NE, to help with scouting those tiles over there. One Worker built a road on the Ivory and will start improving the Ivory next turn. The other Worker moved to the Copper. I feel that we can`t delay connecting Copper any longer.
Should we 2 pop whip the Settler right away? Busan takes some time to get back to size 4 but having a Settler ready to claim contested land is certainly worth a lot. Oh, and we should keep a turn split with Ipecac now, so we`ll need to decide on whipping asap.
Guess what? Superdeath wasn`t the only one to settle in our direction. Ipecac is definitely going for that hill plant where his Warrior stands. Note the Worker and the roads. Sigh, I cannot believe our luck so far. Both our neighbors are settling directly in a line towards us. I mean, what are the odds? Also, I must say that Ipecac`s options for a second city look far superior to ours. A plains hill sharing Copper with his capital and getting a wet Rice in the first ring is so much better than our NE area. If we somehow could have shared a Corn it would have been closer at least.
We are whipping out our Settler next turn. It will go somewhere NE I think. We need to establish a border with ipecac. Btw, Ipecac has a 137/70 EP advantage over us. All EPs were put on him. We`ll lose his graphs if we don`t do that.
(May 9th, 2018, 13:12)Old Harry Wrote: Eh? His city with rice, copper and banana is better than yours with 2 clams, corn and copper? What am I missing?
I must admit that our city is certainly better than his long-term. The problem for us is twofold.
a) It needs 3 Work Boats and a border pop in order to get up to speed.
b) More importantly, our city is a long way away from our neighbors. Settling it first feels a bit like opening with 1.Nh3 in chess (Moving a Knight towards the edge of the board and not caring about the center, which is really, really important in chess, as in civ). Maybe that`s why I shouldn`t complain?
My point is rather that Ipecac`s city is better than an equivalent city of ours settled somewhere in the NE.
(May 9th, 2018, 16:24)Old Harry Wrote: How are you going to punish Ipecac for taking up too much room?
TURN 44
So, I`m ordering up a few tanks. I`m afraid that there isn`t a lot we can do as Ipecac showed up with an Impi. Perhaps we should have connected our Copper sooner. Our Warrior stayed in place. Hopefully we`ll get teleported to the forest hill 2W of Icacac`s units but if the Warrior ends up on flatland Ipecac could kill it. That would of course make Ipecac public enemy number 1.
Our Horses showed up in a slightly awkward position. Dot mapping is going to be hard. If we build 1SE of the Horses we give up the Fish to a Superdeath city 3W. That would be a tense border. I`ll have to think a bit about what to do.
As you can see, we met another player this turn (or rather, he met us). Charriu is our NW neighbour. It could have been worse I think. But well, you never know about these new players - perhaps he decides to camp on our Corn? That would throw a spanner in the works for us. Our Settler was whipped out this turn. We could start a Barracks next or a unit if we have to. Busan will regrow in 3 turns.
Ipecac built his city and our Warrior was teleported SW, quite a few tiles. I don`t get that, it`s not exactly logical. Our Warrior moved to the tile between the Deer and the Clams. Also, Ipecac decided to double move us so that his Impi showed up right as we had a Settler ready to go. I considered complaining about it but decided against it. Anyway, we have to resort to a back up plan. We`re now going for the spot 1W of the Warrior`s current position. I couldn`t find a better spot that was relatively safe. We have an Axe in the build queue in Busan that will finish in 2 turns.
(May 10th, 2018, 15:52)JR4 Wrote: Ipecac built his city and our Warrior was teleported SW, quite a few tiles. I don`t get that, it`s not exactly logical.
... I thought I understood civ's utterly arcane teleportation rules, but I actually can't figure out how that could possibly have happened. W-SW, sure. There would even be a rare case where 2W. But 3S/2W of the city center? (And across the inlet of course, which makes it look even more ridiculous, though civ doesn't care about that part.) It doesn't matter if it goes in one hop or two - I just don't see how it could have gotten there. Weird!
Quote:We`re now going for the spot 1W of the Warrior`s current position. I couldn`t find a better spot that was relatively safe.
I mean, no place is safe until we have an axe or archer to cover it and another to cover Busan. Note if the impi moves W-SW from that hill, it's immediately forking Busan and your proposed location. We might have to accept a delay in founding our city to get some military over.
Once we do, or if the impi moves away or we assume he won't be aggressive, we have some different options:
- We could plant on the plains hill forest with the "Lion T25" sign - that would be a bit like Oghul Qaimish in that it would be in a perpetual culture war and need a perpetual garrison, but would at least be on a hill (but with a forest hill in front of it...) and would create some space for us behind it. This would be an eternally tense border though - like State of Zijin and Oghul Qaimish, basically - but on the zulu side.
(I'll note in passing that, just like State of Zijin, the new Zulu city is on a hill with a killing field in front of it on our side but additional hills behind it on his side. Only this one also has a river we'd have to cross to attack it. Since he's Imp, that city was going to happen unless we planted your "forward plant against Zulu site as our second city and got an axe or archer into it ASAP.)
- We can plant on the hill where his Impi is standing (in the latest picture). This gives him a regular forest hill highway up to our front city, and it's one tile off of two different coasts, but it gets wet corn in the first ring, is on a hill, and still contests the cow. Note that because he placed his city first by a few turns, he'll have a head start in any cultural contest - that applies to the plains hill plant too.
- We can plant on the hill where our northern Warrior is standing (SW of the Impi in that picture). Still has a trail of hills right up to it, but at least the last one is across a river? And until we chop it, a trail of forest hills and forests that don't have to cross the river too. And it's still one tile off the coast. But it is on a hill, with the wheat and oasis in the first ring, and if we want a peaceful border (and to just concede the land so we can concentrate in other directions or on other things) then it's this plant or...
- ...the river grassland north of the wheat is on flatland but behind a river. It's coastal, so I guess it would give us a port on the northern sea, which might be important if our two neighbors settling toward us means we're looking at an island empire. (Sure hope there are some islands then.) It's also kind of far away. Of course, there is a third peaceful option for that border: Assume ipecac won't plant any closer to us than he already has, and go build cities somewhere else:
- Various options to the west, toward Superdeath. These wouldn't really need axes, but they'd need archers or spears. There's some good land over there, and some good options for cities. To pick something conservative, there's the plains hill 4W of Busan that can borrow the copper for a few turns to knock out a Barracks, most of a granary, and either a unit or part of a Worker or Settler, then finish the granary and start a(nother) unit as it grows once its borders pop. There are other good, less conservative options out there too, especially if there's seafood out beyond the dry wheat and jungle gems up there. Or go even more conservative and plant for the horses.
- Or to the northwest for that matter, toward Charriu (or someone he neighbors and walked past) though I'm not sure what's up there yet.
- The city you suggested. If I understand the location correctly, it shares Dadaejin's lake clam, gets a coast clam when its borders pop, gets a tundra deer first ring, and it has lots of forests, even just in its first ring. It doesn't stop ipecac from planting further toward us if he wants to, and it doesn't claim any land toward Superdeath, there's a chance it could orphan a fish (if there's one 4E of Dadaejin that can't be worked by an island) and it won't get a trade route until we finish Sailing, but if we trust ipecac to leave it alone since it's an ultra-passive plant, we can plant it sooner than the other options. Putting our first two new cities straight into our back lines while also not claiming horses
Quote: We have an Axe in the build queue in Busan that will finish in 2 turns.
It makes me kind of sad to see Busan building an axe without a barracks while Dadaejin and its barracks borrows the corn to build a Worker, especially with granaries in both cities. That axe in Busan is clearly correct though; letting one impi kill our capital on T46 and our civ a few turns later would be hilarious, but not in a good way.
ipecac Wrote: Wrote:Hi, I'm not sure how the turn split situation would be. Prior to t45, I was taking second half. on T45, I thought it was over and played first. But it's still a turnsplit situation.
Do you have any objection to continuing with the old status, with you taking first half?
Forgot to add, if you have no objection do go ahead and play the turn first.
I got two messages from ipecac asking for clarification on potential turn split issues. I responded that I was happy for us to take the first half of the timer. It looks to me like ipecac did the right thing here. Will get to the turn soon.
As we double moved Ipecac back, his Impi is still standing on that hill. After thinking carefully about where to build our next city I must admit that my "yet another backline city plant" is pretty horrible. That`s what happens when you play late turns and expect to finish quickly, only to discover that something is not going according to plan. Anyway, we have to set up the border with Ipecac asap and I think that the best way of securing a decent (though obviously not optimal) border line is to build on that very hill where his Impi is atm. It`s on a hill and won`t easily fall. Going further east would create too much tension. Our Axe is going to persuade the Impi to go away. I don`t expect an attack on our Warriors at this point but we`ll see. Busan can perhaps build a Barracks next. We`ll need a Spear in our front city in due time.
Also, we have to think about what to do on the other fronts. I`m unsure of how to make the western border feasible without giving up even more land. We`ll need those Horses soonish.
Oh, and teleportation is weird indeed. Heading across that isthmus is rather hilarious.
