[TECHNICAL THREAD] for rules and settings and blaming the organizers

[Aivoturso]

Generally I am glad that I was able to play this game, but I regret that it ends this way. DMOC end up in loosing position with no chances of wining this game and he started discussion for terminating this game (along with Aivoturso who was loosing war in this game). I just hope that this isn't general rule how games ends here on RB: once group of players realize that they have no chances of winning they are willing to terminate game despite other players odds for winning. I hope that this is just exception or overoptimistic miscalculation of my or Bisons chances for winning.

I'd appreciate if you did not blame me of things I did not do. I've been very careful not to participate in discussion about ending the game, until after current score leader Suttree had also proposed letting the game end. Yes, I did tell that I was not happy with the game, but as the player with the lowest score I did not feel that it was my place to participate in the discussion until Suttree made his suggestion.

In fact if you read my previous post, I was actually hoping to help that the game goes on. If Yossarian and Caledorn would have managed to annihilate me, I would have joined Arki to keep the game afloat. Here's for the reference the only post I wrote during my war time:

I kind of understand Arki's pain. I also joined this game to learn as "weaker" partner of my team. But since my team mate went AWOL in September, this game has not really thaught me much. Add to that the stressing time I've had in RL, I can say that I've not enjoyed the game as much as I've hoped for.

That being said, Arki please don't quit. Assuming no miracle happens, I'll find myself soon without empire. If it is allowed in this game I could join your team as a refugee when that happens. I probably won't add much expertise to the team, but at least it is more fun to get beaten when you have company

[Catwalk]

Let's all shake hands on the game I'm also disappointed it couldn't continue, but there's no way around it being a really big problem that we had a long NAP with suttree and Oxy. We were interested in joining an alliance against them, and our hands were tied when we took over. We probably should have demanded that we be released from all pre-existing deals, but on the other hand we also had a weak military and economy and so we had an imminent need for peaceful development.

[B4ndit]

Aivoturso, I blame nobody and I don't have any hard feelings I understand your viewpoint, mine is different and I just regret that it will never be possible to tell who is right.

[Aivoturso]

@B4ndit: It might be that I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, but to me your previous message suggests that I was discussing terminating this game while I was fighting a losing war. This simply isn't true. My first post about ending the game was just a couple of days back when the discussion was already full blown. Just to make my position perfectly clear here are my thoughts about this game:

1. I've been pretty sure I won't win this game even before Christmas break. I never considered quitting the game because of that.
   
2. War with Yossa & Cal has actually been the first time this year I've had fun with this game. That had nothing to do with me being glad to get rid of the game.
   
3. Starting from the Christmas break, this game has been mostly a burden to me. Partly to frequent pauses, partly because of not having much to do in the game. Mostly though, it's been due to unexpectedly heavy RL work load I've had last few motnths. That's the only reason I voiced my support for letting the game end.
   

[Lord Parkin]

I just hope that this isn't general rule how games ends here on RB: once group of players realize that they have no chances of winning they are willing to terminate game despite other players odds for winning. I hope that this is just exception or overoptimistic miscalculation of my or Bisons chances for winning.

I felt a similar sentiment after my first game here. On the plus side it does free up time for joining new games, though the lack of closure can be a bit frustrating.

It's not an exception I'm afraid. Here's a tally of the first dozen RB pitboss endgame conditions (see here):

Space - 1/12
Culture - 1/12
Abandoned - 2/12
Concession - 8/12

[classical_hero]

One thing I am glad about is the fact this end a terrible game for me. I took a high risk start and the risk didn't come through and then I realised it was up for my team. To be perfectly honest it was a stupid risk that I normally don't even try to make unless certain conditions are met, which they weren't. The start is decisive and I totally messed up the start and by that stage I knew it was basically damage limitation. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened as things were starting to heat up.

[Dhalphir]

I just hope that this isn't general rule how games ends here on RB: once group of players realize that they have no chances of winning they are willing to terminate game despite other players odds for winning. I hope that this is just exception or overoptimistic miscalculation of my or Bisons chances for winning.

I felt a similar sentiment after my first game here. On the plus side it does free up time for joining new games, though the lack of closure can be a bit frustrating.

It's not an exception I'm afraid. Here's a tally of the first dozen RB pitboss endgame conditions (see here):

Space - 1/12
Culture - 1/12
Abandoned - 2/12
Concession - 8/12

I prefer it this way. As your numbers show, RB members are quite willing to concede a Pitboss or PBEM game when it has become boring for the majority, especially if a clear winner has emerged, but sometimes even if one hasn't. The reason for this is simple - these games are huge time sinks for many many people, and one person's desire to have a victory condition does not trump the majority's desire to enjoy themselves. I think that's a great aspect of RB, and shows that at the end of the day we recognize we are all playing these games for fun and relaxation. To imply, as B4ndit did, that this aspect of RB is a weakness and not a strength, shows very poor awareness of why RB has the culture it has, and why that culture has survived for so many years to be what it is.


I think it's great that for the most part, nobody here would seriously expect up to a half dozen people or more to endure dull pointless turnplaying day in day out for weeks or months more than necessary just so that they can have a shiny victory condition and some closure. Yes, it is a shame that no clear winner was found for this game, but I knew that was going to happen as soon as half of the original players subbed out.

You can't have a game where the roster at the end looks almost nothing like the roster at the beginning (were the only unchanged teams DMOC and SutOxy? That's what it seemed like as a casual observer of DMOC) and expect things to go smoothly.

[suttree]

Actually both Oxy and I were only dedlurkers for HBHR/Kurumi

[B4ndit]

I prefer it this way. As your numbers show, RB members are quite willing to concede a Pitboss or PBEM game when it has become boring for the majority, especially if a clear winner has emerged, but sometimes even if one hasn't. The reason for this is simple - these games are huge time sinks for many many people, and one person's desire to have a victory condition does not trump the majority's desire to enjoy themselves. I think that's a great aspect of RB, and shows that at the end of the day we recognize we are all playing these games for fun and relaxation. To imply, as B4ndit did, that this aspect of RB is a weakness and not a strength, shows very poor awareness of why RB has the culture it has, and why that culture has survived for so many years to be what it is.

I don't see a problem in conceding the game if there is a clear winner. This "sometimes" is what worries me.

[Catwalk]

I would like to echo B4ndit's sentiments, games should end when a clear winner has emerged and other players concede. Even if there are 9 other players not really having fun, I would expect them to keep playing to keep the game fair. That said, suttree's NAP with DMOC (and the one we inherited) definitely sealed the game.