[SPOILERS] scooter's Industrial Revolution

[Sullla]

Agreed, that sounds good. I especially think we want to make that 2g for 2g offer with Dreylin and see if we get a response. We also always have the option to remain at war with REM while also attacking pindicator for those border cities. As before, we're stuck waiting and seeing what REM does on this current turn before we can make any further decisions. Maybe REM will be tired and make a tactical mistake we can capitalize on - I can dream, right?

[Sullla]

So. We're at four days now waiting on REM to play his turn, and two days since he posted that he would get to it in the next 12-24 hours. While I have no doubt that REM is legitimately busy, this is starting to get a bit ridiculous. I don't like these Pitboss games that start turning into PBEM games. Any thoughts?

(Side note: I'm sure this delay is partly due to REM playing in three Pitboss games simultaneously. For anyone reading, please don't overcommit yourself in these games! They always take way more time than you expect. Thanks.)

[scooter]

So. We're at four days now waiting on REM to play his turn, and two days since he posted that he would get to it in the next 12-24 hours. While I have no doubt that REM is legitimately busy, this is starting to get a bit ridiculous. I don't like these Pitboss games that start turning into PBEM games. Any thoughts?

(Side note: I'm sure this delay is partly due to REM playing in three Pitboss games simultaneously. For anyone reading, please don't overcommit yourself in these games! They always take way more time than you expect. Thanks.)

I've played probably 9-10 PBEMs, and all of them ran more consistently than this game. It's getting pretty obnoxious. I've been enjoying the game itself, but this is probably the 6th or 7th 4+ day turn, and we're pushing 6 days now for this particular slowdown. Every time these happen my interest in the game wanes, and it takes a few days for it to get back up to normal. I'm not really sure how to proceed. If the person lagging wasn't the odds-on favorite to win, I would have asked for them to be replaced by now, but it's hard to do that with the guy winning the game.

[scooter]

Oh hey we finally have a new turn. Had 10 mins or so, so here's two quick shots.



He withdrew his navy back to this city.



After razing pindicator's former capital, he withdrew the bulk of his army out of here. There's around 11 units total on these tiles.

[scooter]

Couple more quick notes. I did login and send Dreylin that gold/gold trade request to hopefully get confirmation that he's going to declare on REM when his peace expires. I also jumped in to check on the craziness I saw on Civstats.



This was from last turn. I don't know if you noticed, but Balakirev here actually had two units in it last turn. Last turn there was a brand new Galleon in it. I did notice it, and I thought about bringing it up in here, but honestly I forgot to even mention it because there were so many more important things to talk about. I figured there was no way it was headed at us because there were easier ways to hurt us, and he hadn't done that. Fast-forward to a couple hours ago.



Well played.



Very well played. Highlighted is where the other city is located. Looks like he captured the first one, then used the open roads to take the second one Pindicator was almost certainly unable to raze those cities since they were his pretty recently, so REM will capture them back sooner or later. It was still fun to see him pull this off. I know he killed at least 4 airships that REM had stationed here, but I don't know past that.

Anyway, those Infantry in the fort likely prevent us from taking those two pindicator cities this turn. It was tempting prior to that.

[Sullla]

Haha, go pindicator! I guess scooter was right for us not to sign peace and attack him. Hopefully this, along with REM's destroyers needing to limp home for healing, with buy us a couple more turns of inactivity.

So I poked around in-game and had a look. I jotted down the worker micro but my Internet connection here is being wonky, so I'm going to spoiler it rather than try to fiddle further with Google docs. Be prepared for the most exciting spoiler tag ever:

Worker Micro, Turn 338

A: W-S-SW-wsh 1
B: rail done
C: move SW Barb Wire wnd 1
D: SE-wsh 2
E: SE-wsh 3
F: W-S-SW-wsh done
G: SE-E-wsh 1
H: mine 1
I: W-S-S-wsh 2
J: mine 2
K: S-SW-wsh 1
L: move E Vac wsh 2
M: move SW Barb Wire wnd 2
N: SE-S-S-wsh 1
O: move E Vac wsh 3
P: S-SW-wsh 2
Q: W-S-S-wsh 3
R: SW-wsh done
S: SE-S-S-wsh 2
T: SE-S-S-wsh 3
U: E-E-NE
V: S-wsh done
W: rail done
X: W-rail 1
Y: W-rail done

Since REM essentially pulled back this turn, there's not a great deal of tactical advice to go over. I did notice that he has some soldiers creeping around in Donovan territory (REM and Donovan have Open Borders). We need to be prepared to reinforce our western border over there; it's a dicey spot since it doesn't control its own first ring tiles. Fortunately, it finishes the coal plant this turn, and the city will be able to train some more defenders for itself.

Question for thinking: assuming Dreylin does join us in fighting REM, where would we try to go on the offensive? Either the territory east of Zipper or somewhere in pindicator's current land are probably the best options. Any thoughts?

By the way, REM finished Flight research this turn. His ability to keep teching this fast while also building such a large military is terrifying. If Dreylin and BGN aren't willing to cooperate with us against REM, we can just concede right now. Statue of Liberty + Organized trait + the most cities/land/production is too powerful for us to compete with alone.

I'm assuming that we want Industrialism tech next to build panzers and battleships. Electricity did give us a nice boost to our economy, and we're now at a little over 1100 beakers/turn, enough for 4 turn Industrialism. That is with some substantial Wealth and Research builds, of course... but some Wealth builds are basically permanent for us right now to keep research permanently locked at 100%. Some related smaller thoughts:

* With no immediate threat, I thought we could use this turn to slip in a grocer at Spinning Jenny (to stop starving) and build Wealth for one turn at Haber to replenish the treasury a bit. You can feel free to veto this.

* Strategically speaking, I'm keeping the Wealth/Research builds going to speed us along to Industrialism, which I see as one of the key techs to possess. If you'd like to veto some of these in favor of building more units, we can certainly do so... but don't we want to research this tech first and build panzers and battleships?

* I used two airships we have positioned on the Dreylin border for recon missions. I wanted the extra info to help me think about our own troop positions. If you would prefer for me to hold off on this, just let me know. (My short conclusion: Dreylin's probably holding his units in the center of his territory on zone defense, since he only just finished teching Railroad. That or he's about to invade the southern island, which would end the game.)

* Dreylin and BGN Golden Ages should be almost finished. We are only a few turns away from a Great Person out of Radio, and depending on whether we get a Scientist or an Engineer, we can decide how to try to produce a second Great Person.

Overall then, pretty quiet turn. REM is healing and repositioning. I'll try to check in again tomorrow if you have anything you want to run past me. Good luck scooter, you've been playing this war very well thus far. Hopefully we have some more assistance coming in soon.

[scooter]

So I'm thinking seriously about setting us up for an assault on Rubenstein next turn. It's a massive risk, but I don't think we're going to get a better look anytime soon. Here's how things look.





If we can somehow get pindicator to cooperate, we're looking at something like this.

Rubenstein:
1 MG
3 Tanks
11 Infantry
14 Cavalry
1 Rifle

Tons of boats and airships

Pindicator:
9 cannon
11 Infantry
3 Cossack

Us - mostly on boats, also in pindicator's land
~16 infantry
~4 Cannon
2 rifle

Two massive caveats.

1) It's really difficult to get pindicator to cooperate. We'd probably have to ensure that we get in to start the turn before him and use our 4 cannons + airships, and then... just kinda hope he uses his units? We don't really have enough just on our own, but adding his units we would. I don't really know how this would work. There would also need to be some combat rails that only he could provide.

2) Very real risk REM sends stuff at our island in return, but the benefit is by the time he could land us, Dreylin would be able to enter the war. This combined with REM's wounded navy gives us this tiny window. We could move our Destroyers up ever so slightly to cover this off.

Basically, the window here is as good as it's going to get to have a battle on favorable terms. The upside would be removing a very dangerous canal city, but also it benefits us greatly if pindicator were to, you know, spend some of his military on REM.

I don't see a way around #1 though... Sullla, any thoughts here? The opportunity of REM's navy sidelined far away from our island seems too good to pass up.

[scooter]

Alright, I have a different idea. It's either more sane or more crazy, I'm not sure yet. I spent a lot of time trying to craft something sensible around Rubenstein, and I came up with nothing. The sticking point is that this would require full and perfect coordination with pindicator, and we just can't get the necessary rails in place. So what about back-stabbing pindicator?

The plan:



1) Declare war. The units in Kabulevsky teleport to the spot next to Induction (right?).

2) Capture Kabul and Balakirev. Kabul is easy - single Infantry, and we have airships in place to soften it. Balakirev will take a couple casualties, but we do have a Destroyer to lower the defenses slightly, so the 3 Infantry ought to be enough. Balakirev is definitely a capture. Kabul could possibly be razed and replaced if we have to.

3) Borodin doesn't have enough culture to cover any of those western tiles - it only has 3rd ring. So now all of our units (teleported and those on boats) can ride rails. We suicide our 4 cannons into pindicator's fort Infantry. I initially thought their presence on the fort made the attack a non-starter, but now I actually like the idea of using it to kill some strong units. I did a quick and dirty sim, and we'll probably get decent odds after using 4 cannons. At most we'd lose around 2 Infantry. We also get 6 workers for our troubles which will make great combat railers.

4) Immediately offer peace to pindicator and desperately hope he says yes.



This is why he might say yes. His mission on REM + his fort defenses has left his capital pretty bare - 11 Infantry, 9 Cannon, 3 Cossack. If we cut a couple rails, he won't be able to really counter-attack us much, especially since we would reduce him to just 2 workers.

If he retaliates by sending the house at us... well, it's not like we were winning . But if he immediately takes peace, we've picked up two nice cities, and we've significantly increased our chances of holding this region (and eventually the rest of pindicator's land) over REM. Even if he doesn't make peace, if he sits back in the interest of survival, the status quo hasn't changed vs REM, but we've picked up two nice cities. As for defending ourselves, we can stick our navy in Photography and prevent REM from sailing directly at us without losing tons of boats. It'll still be dicey, but it's maybe manageable.

It got too late for me to actually do any of this (don't make hugely consequential moves late at night) which may prove to be a good thing if Sullla can talk me out of this tomorrow. The biggest drawback is that losing 4 cannons actually stings a good bit.

[scooter]

One final note. Yesterday I sent Dreylin an offer of 2g, horse, oil, iron, and world map between each of us. Message being "in 2 turns, military cooperation across the map" or something like that. He re-offered it to me but without the 2g (everything else the same).

I read that as yes he's willing to pile on REM, but he isn't guaranteeing T340 exactly. I suspect he wants to reserve the right to be a bit opportunistic. Not really sure what else it could mean? Pretty decent news overall.

[Sullla]

Attack on Rubenstein is a no-go. It's not just the units inside the city, REM can pull units within 10 tiles in any direction on rails. Even if we could take the city, we could never hold it, and fighting just to raze is a waste of our forces.

Much as I agree with attacking pindicator, this is probably not the turn to do it. We don't want to be using up our forces on him. Let's let REM do the hard work of killing pindicator units so more first. Alternatively, we can just do the same attack with panzers in a few turns. Keep in position to attack pindicator at any moment. But with him making a successful attack against REM this turn, I say we wait a bit.

It would also be immensely easier to attack pindicator if Dreylin has entered the war. I think that's what I'm really hoping for. I don't think we can attack pindicator and also defend 1 vs 1 against REM.