Adv 48 - Regoarrarr

[uberfish]

Well played, I tend to agree that mass gold is probably the optimal strategy - I was running a 50:50 hybrid of gold and food, finished faster than the high food players but slower than the gold hoarders. Although food reaches a higher ceiling, the later GPs just don't have enough time to work to make up for gold's instant high output.

It seems the elimination of Hannibal was what slowed down the tech rate on the other continent in your game, did you influence the war there by diplomatic means?

[regoarrarr]

It seems the elimination of Hannibal was what slowed down the tech rate on the other continent in your game, did you influence the war there by diplomatic means?

I did not bribe any body to war but I did send a Taoist missionary on a caravel to convert Cyrus and then later sent a Hindu missionary to convert Hannibal.

It seems like in most games Hannibal took Hinduism around T17 but for some reason in my game he didn't and I landed Polytheism on T37

[timmy827]

Well played! I love that you appear to have won, despite forgetting Iron (and getting nothing from Ironworks).
Agreed that partial engines/thrusters is way to go. I usually do get all 5 thrusters because I beeline Superconductors, thus can finish them during "downtime" as the other techs come in. But always just one engine.

[regoarrarr]

Well played! I love that you appear to have won, despite forgetting Iron (and getting nothing from Ironworks).
Agreed that partial engines/thrusters is way to go. I usually do get all 5 thrusters because I beeline Superconductors, thus can finish them during "downtime" as the other techs come in. But always just one engine.

Wow I didn't realize that I dind't have iron (or coal post-NP) so you're right - my building IW was pretty

I am interested in your (or anyone's) opinion on the optimal tech / build path for OCC space

[fluffyflyingpig]

I think the key difference between the gold economy and the specialist economy is illustrated in the GNP growth curve.


The gold economy will explode when it gets Acadamy/Globe/Oxford way back in BC years and build a big lead, but will quickly cap out in early AD times.

The specialist economy limps to Education and really doesn't get going anywhere till they get Biology and the National Park up ~700AD. Then it takes off and starts to outpace the gold economy.



Regorrarr took only three food and 15 gold mines but looks to have leveled off at around 1250 bpt.

I ended up running mostly gold with 7 food tiles and still capped out on population and got the last research building in 700AD. The extra food meant that my research leveled off at ~1400 bpt

People who ran max food approached 2000 beakers per turn at the end of the game, but had too few turns left to make those extra beakers per turn matter.

If it was a race to the end of the tech tree or to future tech 10, the specialist economy would get there first. But the short spaceship tech tree seems to favor mostly gold tiles.


Having some more people post their final GNP graphs would be interesting for comparison.

[regoarrarr]

Here you go!

First a shot of my city screen - with building research and non-research bpt totals



And here's the GNP graph with the demos also up there



I ended up settling 11 GP and 2 Great Generals, with the Engineer from the Industrial Park also there.

I used 10 GPs for golden ages, 1 for the Academy and my next GP was due next turn (the one from 2800 GPP). I got the free GPs from Music, Physics, Econ, Communism and Fusion,

So I think that means I generated 17 natively and got 22 total.

[T-hawk]

The gold economy will explode when it gets Acadamy/Globe/Oxford way back in BC years and build a big lead, but will quickly cap out in early AD times.

The specialist economy limps to Education and really doesn't get going anywhere till they get Biology and the National Park up ~700AD. Then it takes off and starts to outpace the gold economy.

I disagree on part of that. The specialist economy explodes at Globe too, with Academy and Oxford. I had my city at size 44 and 1000 beakers at 400 AD, about the same time the gold economies were topping out. National Park is an incremental advance on top of that, not revolutionary. I came in only 3 techs behind Ruff and 1 behind Rego in the end, and only 10-15 turns on win date.

I think we're getting distracted by the number of food/spec economies that didn't do so well. I do agree that gold is easier to play. The food economy demands more precise setup and execution, but if you do, it's competitive. Also, food must be based on the 7-1-2 lake fish; the 6-0-1 land food indeed doesn't keep up. Finally, the specialist economy also makes up some ground (2-5 turns) in building the SS parts, having more hammers from settled GP and engineers/priests and even citizens.

Unexpectedly, though, it seems that the right answer is one extreme or the other. Max gold does well, max food does well, but the middle road is wishy-washy and not the sweet spot.

But the short spaceship tech tree seems to favor mostly gold tiles.

I think this is the first time that the entire 300,000-plus beakers for the spaceship has been called "short".

[regoarrarr]

I do want to take another shot at the game, but not sure yet what to do. I'd thought about trying again a military approach, but fluffyflyingpig delivered that so perfectly that I have to let that stand alone.

Yeah I have also noodled around a "Take 2" of this game. I think the thing to do would be throw down a couple more foods but still be mostly gold.

Some other thoughts / wonders I've had on my own game
* Was not building Pyramids a mistake? (I was in HR early and got to Constitution early)
* Should I have a) used 10 GPs for golden ages vs. settling and/or b) kicked them off earlier
* Should have at least 1 wheat, and maybe iron instead of / in addition to copper
* Maybe swapped stone and marble so I had stone under the capital - though that goes along with my decision to not build the Pyramids
* And of course, better privateer / nuking options for the other continent

[uberfish]

Unexpectedly, though, it seems that the right answer is one extreme or the other. Max gold does well, max food does well, but the middle road is wishy-washy and not the sweet spot.

Can't really conclude that from my finish time though as my tech order in the second half was completely nonsensical and cost me a lot of turns, probably at least 20.

[fluffyflyingpig]

I disagree on part of that. The specialist economy explodes at Globe too, with Academy and Oxford. I had my city at size 44 and 1000 beakers at 400 AD, about the same time the gold economies were topping out. National Park is an incremental advance on top of that, not revolutionary. I came in only 3 techs behind Ruff and 1 behind Rego in the end, and only 10-15 turns on win date.

I think we're getting distracted by the number of food/spec economies that didn't do so well. I do agree that gold is easier to play. The food economy demands more precise setup and execution, but if you do, it's competitive. Also, food must be based on the 7-1-2 lake fish; the 6-0-1 land food indeed doesn't keep up. Finally, the specialist economy also makes up some ground (2-5 turns) in building the SS parts, having more hammers from settled GP and engineers/priests and even citizens.

Unexpectedly, though, it seems that the right answer is one extreme or the other. Max gold does well, max food does well, but the middle road is wishy-washy and not the sweet spot.

Post your GNP graph so we can compare then. :neenernee

I think the gold economy guys were hitting 1000 beakers with biology, right after the turn of the calendar. Reggo has been maxed out for some time in 400AD, looking at his GNP graph! And they get Oxford sooner. Even after globe with specialists you are working commerce poor land tiles and don't get many specialists till after you grow for quite a bit. And lake fish require hammers for workboats.

I had 7 food tiles and 8 gold tiles, plus 1 gems and 1 silver, so closer to a middle ground compared to regorrarr or ruff. I think I would be competitive with a peaceful strategy as well, but my completed test game was to the completion of the tech tree while building dozens and dozens of nukes.



Reggo, I think the early academy was the right way to go. Stone under the capital and the pyramids would've been nice to go along with it, but you don't have much food for specialists early anyway so it probably wasn't that important. Your tech path was suited to the lower food and skipping the pyramids. Setting off first golden age early to get the first few GP early due to the +100% gpp and avoid anarchy probably gives you the most bang for your buck and increases your early game lead. Subsequent golden ages seem like a waste unless the great people come close to the finish and cannot bulb anything useful, except for the case that you build research for most of the golden age or need the hammers for spaceships. You only get 1300 beakers for each golden age, plus the hammers and gpp.

Thanks for the graphs! I'll put mine up as soon as I sort out some computer problems.