Adv 48 - Regoarrarr

[fluffyflyingpig]

The problem with HR via Monarchy is that it slows down the Education beeline. I built an early pyramids and double revolted to Rep/Bureaucracy which boosted the happy cap to 11. Globe completed in 1280 BC, rushed via chops.

I was pushing 600 beaker per turn for the music artist, so I feel like I came out ahead with the golden age to switch civics. The golden age was also timed to coincide with when I maxed out in size and ran scientists.

[fluffyflyingpig]

GNP graph collection:

Reggo: Max gold

fluffyflyingpig: 10 gold 7 food

Plateau at 700 AD is at 1300 beakers. Pushed up to 1400 if I run max beakers, which I switch to in 1400 AD. Endgame max is 1580, plus an additional 300 if I build reaserch.



T-Hawk: Max food, lake fish

Krill: max corn/wheat

[fluffyflyingpig]

Analysis:

Major milestones are: Academy, Bureaucracy, Globe, Education, Biology. This should be pretty close to beakers since most people have the same culture/cash. Max food guys who built cathedrals may throw things off toward the end, but it's the early spikes we care about, which are mostly beakers.


Reggo: Strong early academy. Gets to Globe in 950BC, Education 6 turns later and more or less maxes out after building Oxford shortly after the AD transition at around 1300 beakers or so.


Fluffyflyingpig: Fast Bureaucracy. Academy and Oxford complete 1 turns apart in 625 BC, slightly faster than Reggorrarr. Max out slower, continuing to grow till 700 AD topping out at 1400 beakers or so. GP are settled so GNP continues to grow slowly till the end of the game.


T-Hawk: Slow early game. Picks up once the city maxes out on size, several turns after Globe finishes. I'm guessing 1AD is when you go over 21 population, 300 AD is Oxford, and 700 AD is Biology. Maxes out at 2000 beakers around 1300 or so.


Krill: Slightly slower early game than T-Hawk, but much bigger boost at Biology due to corn vs fish. Maxes out even later, but the best long term potential due to Cereal Mills being better than Sushi.




Reggo and I both managed to deny religions to the AIs on the far continent, which slowed them down. I start nuking the AIs on the far continent starting around 1100 AD, right when they start growing exponentially in other games.

[Man Behind the Mask]

Following on from this great work seems like a reasonable place to add some thoughts on the relative merits of the two "power" tiles – grassland gold vs lake fish. All fish feels like it should be better than all grain for the reasons T-Hawk explains, and there is more of a contrast between the fish and gold options to investigate.

Here is my assumption-rich amateur analysis for you guys to pick holes in.

In the early game, mass gold is definitely better. Say you're improving your 4th tile:
To improve: Gold is 7 worker turns (and you get 20+ hammers from a chop); fish is a new 30h workboat. The fish can be done faster with only 2h plus the centre tile, but you could be spending those hammers elsewhere.
Yield: Gold is 1h, 8c immediately; fish is +4f, 2c and the promise of 2 specs for 12bpt, 12+gpp (with Philosophical) at some point in the future (depending on civics, happy cap and so on) in exchange for the food. Fish does need further investment in a lighthouse and Moai Statues to make it more productive, but surplus food does have other benefits

In the late game, yield is everything and fish unquestionably wins if you’ve settled more great people (numbers include bureaucracy bonus for hammers & commerce):
Gold 4.5h (levee, railroad), 12 commerce
Fish 1.5h, 3c plus 1.5h,13.5bpt, 22.5gpp (2 science specialists and half an engineer) plus further benefits of any additional settled great people.

There are two big multipliers which the alternative approaches also affect: Bureaucracy (likely to be earlier with fast-start gold and/or choppable forest for Oracle) and the Academy (food surplus likely to mean earlier scientist).

This is the kind of thinking I should have done before the game, rather than after. These musings also need someone to come along and provide a conclusion.

[fluffyflyingpig]

I think this is more or less on the money. The hammers are a red herring, imo. 95% of the space race is about the science, having more or less hammers at the end only changes the launch date by a few turns. You can only run a maximum of 8 engineers in either case. The gold starts get Mining Inc and Ironworks, fish will usually build Moai instead. Both end up building the spaceship without much of a problem.


I disagree with T-Hawk that the hybrid approach is wishy-washy. For the gold starts you need some food in the beginning to kick start your growth. More food later on is useful to have enough gpp to ensure you get mostly great scientists and gives you a higher max science rate. For the food heavy starts, you need some gold to get early techs in a timely manner. RefSteel had excellent results with a food heavy start and 5 gold +silver/gems. Sure he got education via oracle, but that's maybe a 5-10 turn bonus on top of a very nice stating setup and well-played game.


You can definitely get an early Academy with either route if you plan for it. It just means that you can't build any super early wonders. I am pretty confidant that the early academy is the correct choice in either case.