[SPOILERS] Tales from the Enchanted Forest - Thessa of the Ljosalfar

[Amelia]

Technically, you could plant your city in the middle of ice, that's not marginal land anymore =) Or even or an island in the middle of the ocean.

Heck, according to your logic, all any civ needs is a Archmage to make all land marginal, just takes time =)

[Maksim]

Technically, you could plant your city in the middle of ice, that's not marginal land anymore =) Or even or an island in the middle of the ocean.

Heck, according to your logic, all any civ needs is a Archmage to make all land marginal, just takes time =)

Well, ice is tricky (need to scorch it into tundra first), but as elves, mid-game expansion into tundra is perfectly normal. By this time, the mature cities' cultural borders expand to third or fourth ring, picking up tundra tiles, so it's no problem to send some spare priests to bloom ahead of time; a tundra city with an ancient forest or two can get going quite nicely, and thrive with but a single deer or fish resource.

[Nyktorion]

Turn 4

Last turn, we provoked our first fight, scout vs goblin. And the winner is...

*drum roll*



Our scouts survived the hideous goblins' attack! For their valor in combat, they even receive their combat I promotion. It will take some time to heal from the goblins' poison, though.

The southern scouting party revealed some more grassland rivers, hills, and forests.



Evermore stopped working the 2/1/1 silk tile, and switched to the 3/0/1 corn tile. That way, both the warrior and the second population point will finish in two turns, so everything is ready for getting out a worker then.

The numbers in the demo screen were exactly the same as last turn (except for my own numbers, of course), so there's no C&D stuff for this turn.

Hi Maksim and Amelia! :wink2:
As the first non-Nyktorion posters in this thread, you win a prize:



True, in the long run, all land gets nice for us elves (after all, we are the ones living in harmony with the land the most). The tundra locations get even better once we have strength of will or commune with nature (or some religious mage hero), and thus access to vitalize

In the short run however, before we can get access to priests, I might still be trying some rather non-elven things in some places (the south might allow for some agristofarms for that timeframe, for instance). Even the capital is in settled in a rather forest-light location. However, I am still most grateful for the elven abilities here - otherwise, those nice silks would have to wait for mining to become harvestable!

[Nyktorion]

Turn 5

The northern scout is currently recovering from the goblin poison. The southern scout explores the lands further, and finds Elohim territory.



Further, a forest has grown 2W of Evermore.

Next, this turn's demo screen:

• We know that the capitals of Irgy, Mardoc, and Thoth have grown to size 2. So all three of them are probably getting a warrior first. On the other hand, WK and Yellow must be going worker first, otherwise their capitals would already have grown to size 2 from woring 3f tiles, too.
  
• Since nobody has gained any production, also the second worked tile must be a 3f tiles for everyone (for Thoth: a flood plains, as witnessed by the GNP of 20).
  
• The changes in soldier count are fully explained by the capital growths. The Malakim's life expectancy being 60 confirms the following scenario for them:
  
  Health: 2 (base) + 1 (palace life mana) + 2 (river city tile) + 1 (1-2 forests)
  Unhealth: 2 (pop) + 2 (5-7 flood plains)
  
• The Elohim graphs revealed nothing really new about them (they are working a 3/0/? tile, and have a GNP of 12)
  

Speaking of the Elohim, I sent WK the following message:

Greetings!

the age of ice has passed, and this land is coming to life again. Finally, we can settle down, and thus do the first step in allowing our people to thrive again. We are pleased to have received reports from our scouts stating that the same holds true for your people!

We, the Ljosalfar, believe that the best way towards a blooming of the new life of both of our nations is to leave the ruthless, warlike spirit of the age of ice behind, and enter a symbiotic coexistence. There are certainly many ways for us to benefit from each other. For instance, one immediate possibility to do so would be an exchange information about this land. We will go ahead and share some of our knowledge with you: our settlement is located to the north east of yours. Apart from some goblins in the far north (whose aggressivity unfortunately did not decrease with this new age), you are the first foreign people we meet.

wishing you the best,
Nyktorion of the Ljosalfar

As I said before, the general game plan is a peaceful one during the first phase of the game (unless Cahir Abbey is undefended), particularly with the defensive Elohim as a neighbor. My scout could reach their capital during the next turn, but I probably won't go looking whether he has a defender stationed there (leaving the warrior at home and wandering with the scout would be a sensible thing for him to do, anyway, and I want to get on WK's positive side for the beginning of the game).

So I gave him an initial message with some RP fluff and friendly words, and an attempt to start some cooperation by an exchange of scouting info. Maybe I can pull out some info about what scouting he has done up to now. Also, I have the secret hope that he might reveal something that indicates whether he scouts with a single unit or two units. In the latter case, I might actually try my luck at marching into his capital; I would be very lucky to get such info, though.

[Nyktorion]

Answers from WarriorKnight:

Welcome!

The order of the Elohim is always pleased to encounter new civilizations. May the wisdom of Sirona be with your people as you rebuild your civilization to its former glory.

We also believe that we need to enter a peaceful co-existence in order for us both to survive in this world. I need to see the next turn before I can say more but I'll share with you that you are also the first civilization that we have met.

WarriorKnight
Elder Monk of the order of the Elohim

And tonight:

Greetings

I find myself in the position of having to come to the negotiation table with you. Your scout is located in an extremely threatening position with the potential to knock me out next turn. Naturally I don't want that to happen, so I'm asking you what do you want in exchange for not killing me?

Keep in mind that if we don't reach an agreement, I can cast Sanctuary to protect myself. However, if I have to do that then there will be no turning back, and you will be my first, main and only target for the rest of the game.

WarriorKnight

Wow, thanks for telling me that your capital is unprotected! So, theoretically, I can demand anything from WarriorKnight that's worth less than his ability to cast Sanctuary. Also, I don't want to demand too much - I'd rather have a friendly neighbor shielding me from opponents for the rest of the game than an eternal fight from which only the other four civs will profit.

Concerning potential demands, one thing I am currently thinking about is the broken sepulcher, which is two tiles closer to my territory than his, anyway.

[Nyktorion]

Just sent WK this:

Greetings, WarriorKnight, wise elder of the Elohim!

indeed, neither of us would benefit from eternal hostility. Such a scenario would likely shrink both of us into insignificance compared to other nations in this land.

So, we would already see plainly signing a non-aggression pact (NAP), thus relieving your fears of our scout's ability to enter your capital, and building up a good relationsship, as a desirable result for us. In fact, we did not even know that your city was undefended before you entered these negotiations.

Still, since this situation already puts us into formal agreement negotiations this early, there is one more issue we would like to settle at this point. Between our two settlements, there exists a large dungeon called the "broken sepulcher", which is a bit closer to our settlement than to yours (6 tiles from us, 8 tiles from yours; and we started even closer than that before settling down). It might either contain a great treasure, or vile monsters, which would likely turn on us after being stirred up. Would you agree not to enter this dungeon (on the condition that the distance information we gave is truthful, of course)? In return, we would of course agree not to enter any dungeons in your vicinity, either, such as the one right next to our scout.

So what do you think of this: we sign some kind of NAP (what kind exactly would the Elohim like best?), the Elohim agree not to explore the broken sepulcher, and the Ljosalfar agree not to explore any dungeon in a 6-tile radius around the current Elohim capital?

best wishes,
Nyktorion of the Ljosalfar

and received this in parallel:

I should have probably mentioned this before.

I have no problems with signing a NAP, becoming an ally and/or paying you something in exchange for my survival. I just don't want my game to end early or have to cast sanctuary to protect myself.

WK

I think our demand is something we should be agreeing to even if our scout wouldn't be a threat to their capital. So I hope my offer is modest enough to keep WK on our good side - I think a neighbor on friendly terms for the rest of this game benefits us more (in the face of the existence of four other civs) than anything we could opportunistically demand right now against sanctuary.

[Nyktorion]

Just had this chat with WarriorKnight:

Ich: Hi
Sorry, I did not find your chat request earlier
Ich: Noticed I had tagged myself as offline from chat some time before
WarriorKnight: hi
finally got here
Ich: So, what do you think about the suggestion I sent you?
Ich: I hope, the dungeon suggestion is nothing too much out of the ordinary (I would have even thought of making such a proposal in a stand-alone way at some point)
WarriorKnight: no, i'm fine with that
your proposal seems acceptable to me
Ich: I probably could have demanded more in exchange for sanctuary, but I'd rather get some good relationships in the beginning than earning me a grudge for too high demands
WarriorKnight: as for the NAP, i don't really know, how long would you like?
let's just quickly fill out the details so i can send the save on
Ich: since you're a builder, too, you can probably see the value of good neighbors, too
hmm...
we could either make it just 5 rounds, so you can be safe right now, or already think of something that we would have signed in the next 10 or 20 turns otherwise
WarriorKnight: i cant really imagine either of us doing a warrior rush or something like that
Ich: me neither
WarriorKnight: anyway, let's make it 20 for now so i can send the save on, is that ok?
Ich: ok, let's make it 20 turns for now, and then renegotiate some turns before it runs out
WarriorKnight: yep, signed
Ich: so 20 turns NAP, plus the dungeon agreement?
sign
WarriorKnight: yep
ok, now to play the save, brb

EDIT: we agreed to tell each other about neighbors we find, too:

WarriorKnight: ok, save played
i appreciate that you didn't demand much for sanctuary
WarriorKnight: anyway, so the NAP is until t26
Ich: including T26?
WarriorKnight: sure why not?
Ich: anyway, we should start renegotiating some time between 20 and 25
WarriorKnight: yeah, that's a good idea
also, do you want a contact agreement?
Ich: you mean - if we find a new civ, we tell each other about it?
WarriorKnight: yeah
Ich: certainly
WarriorKnight: not sure what else we could do this early
Ich: seems to benefit both of us
WarriorKnight: ok, consider it signed
Ich: /sign
WarriorKnight: definately

[Nyktorion]

Turn 6

Northern scout is still healing. Southern scout explored some more northwest of the Elohim capital.



Evermore grew to size 2, and finished a warrior. Now, we go for a worker, for improving that corn and silks. Workers are in theory still as important as in BTS. However, there is the problem that the worker techs take much longer to research. The silks should strongly mitigate that problem, though.

Demo did not change a lot during this turn. The only thing I noticed was that the average rival GNP increased from 14 to 15, but I currently don't really know what to make out of this information.

[Nyktorion]

I used the time between turns to send a formalisation of our agreement to WK:

Dear WarriorKnight of the Elohim,

hereby I formally restate the results of our previous negotiation:

* we have an NAP until (including) turn 26
* the Elohim agree not to explore the broken sepulcher, which is located 6 tiles from the Ljosalfar capital, and 8 tiles from the Elohim capital
* the Ljosalfar agree not to explore any dungeon within 6 tiles of the Elohim capital
* whenever one of us meets a new nation, we agree to share this information with each other

signed,
Nyktorion of the Ljosalfar

EDIT: WK's confirmation is in

Nyktorion

I confirm that this is our agreement and hereby sign it.

WarriorKnight
Elder Monk of the order of the Elohim

I have a technical question to lurkers: how long does sanctuary last on quick speed? Civilopedia still says 30 turns, but a reduction to 20 turns would seem logical, too.

[Nyktorion]

Turn 7

Northern scout is still healing (4 turns remaining), southern scout explored further. The plan is to uncover some of the desert/plains on the inside of the mountain chain.



We have the following demo:



Rival best GNP is 26, and rival best crop yield is 9! That smells like Sciz got a free great merchant from somewhere (lair?). Also, somebody (Irgy) finished a warrior this turn.