Yeah, Loki is really nice as a scout. I would have lost probably around 5+ units to get to you otherwise. Lizardman and Bears are roaming to your west quite frequently and there are so many mountains it is hard to bypass them. I really like this map in this regard, it does feel really interesting and not that easy to dotmap or scout. But I did rant much about my starting location I still believe I have the worst of all (desert hills, desert, plains, no real food-resource) and wouldn't my traits have changed I probably would not be able to compete anymore.
As for the settling, I guess "I have no current plans to settle in your direction beyond first ring" means first ring around your cap, not first ring around mine, eh? Anyway, free info for you: I am to your NW, separated by water in the NW, the Doviello in the North and the Calabim in the West. So I guess we should never have issues about settling. At least not till a much, much later point in the game.
Regarding my neighbours: Ilios is running away. He might tell that he fears the vampires and I agree, when they come into play they could be scary. Except for if we look at PBEM1, if someone runs away with the game then even a big force of vampires will simply get annihilated. And as I said, he is running away right now. Thats in my book much more scary - especially as he is not very talkative. Even after I gave him several time information he did not really reciprocate at all. That together with his high score, pop, food and GNP is not really making me happy.
The Calabim are kind in their diplomacy. Guess they don't want to get into a fight already now. Other then that, well, they do have an Axeman. I guess from a lair as they should have a Moroi normally. They do not have Bronze Working I believe but copper is near them.
Lastly, the Doviello. Not much talk with them and they seem to look into their east more then into their west. Fine with me to be honest.
Btw: Who are your other neighbours? I know of the Doviello and the Calabim, but who is to your NE and E?
Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]
I'm giving out some information which he might or might not have. But I feel that is worth it if it gets him on my good side. Not now obviously but later on when the Calabim may be a real threat. I also hope to get some more information about his neighbours.
Much more interesting, Mists reply
Quote:[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]This was neither a tent nor palace.
The main chamber in it was neither a council space nor a throne room.
There was a fire pit in the middle, but what flickered in it was not a flame.
There were guards who looked neither like men, nor wolves.
Strength seeped from the earth.
Change flowed in the air.
Vitality gushed from the living.
Five figures sat on the skins strewn around the pit, their hair
bleached of all colour, their eyes clouded and their faces pale. The
messenger was brought before them next morning.
-We understand - said the one with the body of a child.
-There's a method in the maddnes and a theory behind chaos - said the
one who was in constant flux between forms of human and a beast
-It brings ruin to some - said one that was withered and old
-And creates opportunities to others - said one who was a woman in her prime
-We shall make it so - said the one who was a wolf of legend. - We are
Mist, those that follow the Mistress.
-We learn for Her.
-We change for Her.
-We destroy for Her.
-We create for Her.
-We enforce Her will. Tell the Insane One we understood. Tell that we
shall appreciate the entertainment. You may go now.
> OOC: If it is unclear or you don't have time for that, simply ask. It
> is nothing special anyway - had something else in mind but realized it will
> take more time then I first realized and thought you would rather not wait 3
> days for an answer. But I had written the text already and didn't want to
> throw it away
OOC: Nah, it's fun. We should have started this earlier
This makes you the second and probably the last faction in the game I
have a NAP with. I've had a raid on Sciz in the works since t30 or
thereabouts and that went off just recently with effects you can
undoubtely see. The thing is, I offered him a 'get out of jail free'
option in the form of a joint strike on Ilios, given I get compensated
for extra maintenance and lost expansion opportunity. He decided 200
gold is not worth peace, crippled ( or eliminated ) runaway neighbour
and freed expansion space. He also leaked the offer before
negotiations concluded. So he's on the ropes now and I expect Malakim
intervention within next 10 to 15 turns. I still don't understand his
decision, but hey, it's not me falling into irrelevance.[/COLOR]
Interesting too know. I guess he put everything on one card hoping that his raid would be successful. And it seems it worked out. At least he took one city and Barnaxus and his soldier points are only going up. Malakim intervention in 10-15 turns would also work out with my plans IF sunrise agrees on a joint strike against Ilios.
It seems I am prone for events right now. This turn:
Obviously I did not pay 26 gold only to lose my sole source of copper. And I wonder: Does this dwarven adept really searching for the secret of turning copper into gold when his homelands are being invaded by the Doviello?
This Freak was born in the Capital. I thought about what to do with him and finally decided to send him to Coombe View. With Bronze Weapons he will have Str 5 and if we attack will surely be helpful.
Settler will be finished in 4 turns, Warrior and Freak in 3. They will setup city no. 6 then. Also another Freak (from Coombe View) which does not have as strong stats as the one above is on his way to the new city so that borders can be popped quickly. City should go up in 2 and borders should pop in 7 or 8turns.
Serdoa Wrote:And so I finally settled for what I have done. I shortly thought about using a Vigenère-cipher with "Nevermore" as the key but abandoned this idea as well. I thought it would be to hard to find it out. But hey, after seeing how fast everyone (including Mist) got the solution, am I wrong? Shall I use next time something like described above?
I'd have said it was far too easy, but you don't really want to make it difficult. Without wanting to sound arrogant, my standards might be out of whack too, since I participate in a lot of puzzle competitions and have written a few of my own puzzles too. Although really anyone who hangs around a site like this probably as nerdy as I am anyway. Going by Mist's response he'd be perfectly happy with something harder though next time.
Getting back to the game, it's a shame you had to turn down the copper->gold event, gold is always good to have. But you definately need to keep at least one copper!
How much do all these freaks cost to build? They've never struck me as being spectacularly good value for hammers if you want military, but I can't remember how much they are exactly.
Freaks are expensive. 40 hammers. Thats fine if you use them for Freak Shows - which have the same hammer cost as monuments but provide on top of the +2 culture also +1 happy and +1 GArtistPoints - but you can get 2,5 warriors for those hammers. And even with great mutations I doubt that one Freak will be as worthwhile as 2,5 warriors in my current situation.
Though, you can upgrade them to Archer, Swordsman or Hunter (at least according to the Civilopedia). Means all Archery, Melee or Recons units should be createable out of a Freak. With good promotions that might be very well worth it.
As of now, I have used 1 Freak for a Freak Show in Argenteria. 2 more are available, one will be used in the new city shortly. The other one will probably be kept, simply because of the Heroic Strenght promotion (you would need Hero (!) and C5 for this promotion normally). A 4th one is created in Hexam to build a Freak Show there.
Yeah, Loki is really nice as a scout. I would have lost probably around 5+ units to get to you otherwise. Lizardman and Bears are roaming to your west quite frequently and there are so many mountains it is hard to bypass them. I really like this map in this regard, it does feel really interesting and not that easy to dotmap or scout. But I did rant much about my starting location I still believe I have the worst of all (desert hills, desert, plains, no real food-resource) and wouldn't my traits have changed I probably would not be able to compete anymore.
As for the settling, I guess "I have no current plans to settle in your direction beyond first ring" means first ring around your cap, not first ring around mine, eh? Anyway, free info for you: I am to your NW, separated by water in the NW, the Doviello in the North and the Calabim in the West. So I guess we should never have issues about settling. At least not till a much, much later point in the game.
Regarding my neighbours: Ilios is running away. He might tell that he fears the vampires and I agree, when they come into play they could be scary. Except for if we look at PBEM1, if someone runs away with the game then even a big force of vampires will simply get annihilated. And as I said, he is running away right now. Thats in my book much more scary - especially as he is not very talkative. Even after I gave him several time information he did not really reciprocate at all. That together with his high score, pop, food and GNP is not really making me happy.
The Calabim are kind in their diplomacy. Guess they don't want to get into a fight already now. Other then that, well, they do have an Axeman. I guess from a lair as they should have a Moroi normally. They do not have Bronze Working I believe but copper is near them.
Lastly, the Doviello. Not much talk with them and they seem to look into their east more then into their west. Fine with me to be honest.
Btw: Who are your other neighbours? I know of the Doviello and the Calabim, but who is to your NE and E?
Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]
Some information bits but mostly non-sensitive. He should know most of it anyway. Maybe where my position is relative to him was news to him, but if so, he should find out soon anyway.
He wrote an answer back already too:
Quote:[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Hi Serdoa
Thanks that clarifies quite a few things. My starting position was also bad and I've been complaining about it all game too. I do have food resources but no plantations, gold etc. I can tell you why Ilios is getting so far ahead, it's not because he's better than anyone else but because the map is imbalanced. He has floodplains + gold dye incense copper. Just switched to financial. But yes I agree Ilios is a much more immediate problem than vampires here and something needs to be done about it and preferably soon before he can rush some sort of tier 3 unit way before everyone else. PB scenario from the first game should not be allowed. I have full contact with everyone now and Ilios is a very clear #1 in all of food/production/GNP. Calabim have also been complaining about him. Last time I chatted with them they said they wanted to set up a three way chat between you, them, and me to discuss what to do about Ilios.
My northern neighbours are Mist and Sciz who are fighting. now I'm going to give you some interesting information which I trust you won't tell Ilios about...
Mist offered Sciz a deal whereby Mist would stop rushing him and attack Ilios again if Sciz paid him tribute. Ilios isn't happy about this and intends to send units to help prop up the dwarves. I don't know if he would push out further, but in any case his army would be out of position if attacked from the east. Calabim would likely cooperate.
Uberfish[/COLOR]
So, we both don't like our starting positions. If what he says is true regarding the start of the Malakim then we really have to do something right now, as long as we still can.
For all other stuff he writes: I knowed all of it already. I had hoped he would tell me about his eastern neighbour which have to be the Lanun but I guess there will be a patch of water between them similar to the one between them and the Calabim.
Oh, last point to notice: He has contact with everyone, I am still missing Sciz and the Lanun. So he either did a better job scouting or had an easier time getting to them. Probability is high that he scouted better
Elves move fast through forests and start with two scouts though, so he'd have had an easier time of it. If you get scouts out early enough they actually get somewhere, wait a bit longer and it becomes impossible.
It's really good to hear the same story confirmed from a different source, even if it is no new information. Nice that he was willing to tell you too.
Ok, this will be a reaaaaallly lenghty post with chat-transcripts and stuff. I will put all that stuff in here without commenting. I try to write up a post on my thought on all that today or tomorrow.
Quote:Ilios: wow you're online Ich: yeah, happens sometimes Ilios: how are you doing? Ich: quite ok. some pain from a dentist visit still. and you? Ilios: i'm ok
you got time for a quick chat about the ffh game? Ich: sure Ilios: I've discovered Cartography, and will get access to Fishing in about 5-10 turns, giving us a trade connection
would you be interested in Open Borders?
no scouting to begin with, ofcourse Ich: That should give us both trade routes with each other right? That would surely interest me Ilios: yup
how are relations with your other nations?
your other neighbours i mean Ich: Well, I have only really relations with one neighbour (except for you of course) because Mahala and I didn't talk much. I was pretty lucky not to be the one to get attacked I guess.
As for me and the Calabim - the settled 6 tiles from my cap there second city, next to my copper... Ilios: aha
do you know if their second city is far from their capital? Ich: No, its not unfortunately. Thats also the reason why we are at peace now. Ilios: Serdoa, have you seen the lands between us? Ich: Between us two? A little bit of it Ilios: Any war between us will be a slaughterfest
as far as I know, there are only three narrow passes giving access to each others lands
the south, at the reagants
the middle at the mana node
the north, at a plains hill
[spoiler]Picture of that area he mentions:
I was wondering what your thoughts are on securing our border
allow us to focus troops elsewhere Ich: I am honestly not sure what to say ... that was a abrupt topic-change Ilios: well not really
I was trying to say that war between us would be very ugly and difficult because of those narrow passes Ich: well, I have other issues right now, like shitty GNP, as to think about going to war. Ilios: alright, fair enough. Should you be interested in a NAP, let me know Ich: I'll do, but honestly, right now I am much more interested in getting trade routes (well, and I dislike NAPs as PBEM7 and PBEM10 should show ) Ilios: alright
think about it though. securing a flank would be in both our interests (well especially you with the Doviello and Calabim on your border) Ich: The Doviello are no threat right now when they fight the Dwarves. And the Calabim, well, I will get Bronze Weapons soon (don't tell them) and got a city which took a tile in the inner BFC of their 2nd city. Ilios: claiming their copper?
nice Ich: Nah, now its MINE :D Ilios: they must be very happy
anyway, you can finally clear that gems jungle Ich: Yeah, that will be a relieve. Honestly, I think I have the worst starting position of all times. If I had not have luck with my traits I would already have given up. Ilios: yeah you had and yes you have been lucky with the traits
I'm playing a game with Perpentach right now and a 120 turns have passed
no change in traits Ich: Played a game yesterday with Perpentach. 3 times trait changes in 70 turns Ilios: hehe
I guess the vamps won't be getting their copper bakc?
have you only recently claimed the copper? Ich: Well, they might... in form of weapons right in their face if the try to take it.
Yeah - I have got it some turns ago but I have to finish Bronze Working first (next turn...) Ilios: I would have loved to see their faces...
have you claimed it with your capital's culture? Ich: no, build a city and a freak show Ilios: ooh nasty Ich: well, balseraph are not the strongest civ I guess, but they do have some funny possibilities Ilios: yeah, me you and mist have the weakest civs Ich: Well, appearantly you did something right, being the leader in all demos Ilios: worker moves buddy, worker moves are king
I'm looking over the FFH PBEM 5 map btw
who did you pick again? Ich: ah, I got sheaim. Ilios: oh I have Bronze working as well, if you're wondering
and access to copper Ich: Was pretty sure on that one Ilios - but thanks for the info nontheless Ilios: you were?
what gave it away? Ich: ah, just my feeling. you know, I think everyone had copper somewhere near the start and with your GNP you should have got BW easily before everyone else if you wanted but at least till now (when even I finish it finally) Ilios: amelia has a nice warrior i hear Ich: no contact with her still :/ giant spiders scare me Ilios: ah I thought you'd met her already
she got Orthus already, as you've probably seen in the IT thread
she has a Flaming axe bronze warrior with a great commander attached to it Ich: Oh nice. Ilios: and no bronze working yet
anything you'd like to know? Ich: no, nothing I can think of right now. but its late already and I haven't seen the game some time, so if something comes up I'll ask if that is ok with you Ilios: no probs
I gather you don't have Fishing yet? Ich: no - I couldn't get it till now. do you have it already? Ilios: nope
but no need really yet
you have clams i think
?
anyway Ich: yeah, I have clams. well, I would have.... Ilios: anyway
first one to get Fishing gives a holler and we open borders
like i said, I have it in about 5-10 turns
depends a bit on what happens on my western border Ich: great lets hope everything goes well on your western border
I guess that means you go help the dwarves eh? Ilios: well, I'd love to
but I'd need my eastern flank covered Ich: Like I said, I don't like NAPs. And in this situation I would piss off a neighbour who could turn around to hit me in the face for it - not a great trade to be honest for doing something I dislike Ilios: fair enough
and I'm not sure how that would piss of Mist Ich: If you go and defend the dwarves from him and can hit with full force because I agree to a NAP? I would be pissed off about that - and lets be honest, he has put his whole civ in war-mode, there is nothing else he can do with it. If he can't hit the dwarves he has to come for another neighbour Ilios: alright
just don't get twitchy when you my power increasing. it is NOT aimed at you
that was the whole point of a NAP
so you don't get nervous when my power increases Ich: Ah don't worry. We have good relations and I trust you. Ilios: alright, that works for me ;Ã
missus is calling, later man
nice talking to you - live - lol Ich: have a nice evening then Ilios:
[/spoiler]
And while I was at this chat, I was also in a chat with darrell and uberfish. I had chatted shortly with Darrell alone before, so that is what Darrell is referring to at the start, because I asked to attack as soon as possible.
Quote:uberfish: hey Darrell: Hey Ich: hi you two Darrell: we would be mcuh more useful in about 20t uberfish: so yeah I thought I might as well pass that message on Darrell: Msg? uberfish: that both of you wanted to do something about ilios before he ran away Darrell: All three of us I hope uberfish: yeah
at the moment I don't have much of an army Ich: I would hope so too - honestly, this game will be plain boring if he can run away like PB did in PBEM1 uberfish: i'm going to get as much recon info as I can Ich: Well, I think both of you have contact with the Lanun - any chance they would join our cause? uberfish: In most games I would go he's on the other side of the world, someone else's problem
hmm I only got contact with pirates recently
amelia is concerned about ilios too but didnt mention anything about wanting to attack
Trying to expand and tech I think
darrell might have more of an idea Darrell: He said no when we asked Ich: Well, it would be good if we could get her to declare war without actually doing anything. just get him to focus his attention away from us Darrell: Or she
I'll. Try again
Right now due to barb pressure we could free up only a few units uberfish: well I did drop the hint that pb only ran away with PBEM1 cause no one stopped him Darrell: Anyone else here lurke pb2? uberfish: ilios is apparently going to prop up sciz but how much force he's using is unknown Ich: Well, looking at the power numbers, he can't have that much - don't forget, he has 4 cities which need at least each a garrison unit as well Darrell: The 5v1 on sulla failed due to poor coord and lack of commitment
Sunrise wanted me to ask about stooges uberfish: don't think he is building them but can't be sure Ich: you are right with that darrell. I'd rather have people telling outright they won't join then doing it like Nakor in PB2... uberfish: ok looking at it I think the difficulties are
1) force multipliers, if ilios gets to AV/emp
2) i'm 16 tiles off
that's a very long way Ich: ah, don't get me wrong. I have no issue if someone can't commit, for whatever reason. It's also perfectly fine if the Lanun don't want to get involved. I only want to be sure that everyone who does commit to something does it in the end. If you would say you send troops and then 1 hunter would show up for example, that would be Nakor-style for me uberfish: yeah I completely get that
for me distance is the problem Ich: yeah, can see that. and I would rather be ready in latest 15 turns to hit - something which is Impossible for you to make unfortunately uberfish: the problem is once either AV+priesthood or Emp+radiant guard arrives any axe base rush can be stopped Ich: well, we should be able to find out which techs he has. but anyway, what else to do? let him go on? if he can help the dwarves survive the probably vassalize to him. not what I want uberfish: yeah
golems with no barnaxus and like 30 turns behind due to mists attack aren't much threat though tbh Ich: yeah, thats right. I was more thinking along mana gifts and stuff uberfish: yeah Darrell: Sunrise meant for our side to get the stooges uberfish: oh right Darrell: 16 tiles is a ways but hunters can do it in 8 turns uberfish: they can Darrell: We won't be ready to attack befor then uberfish: they also suck at attacking cities Darrell: Yes but thye can pcik off units and carry hawks Ich: well, I wouldn't mind having some for the hawks. uberfish: i actually have one in the area right now Darrell: Bottom line is we are gonna male a major sacrikfice to do somethibg here, and some mana isn't really symmetreic uberfish: I know
wait what's this about mana Darrell: Sorry got behinf and scaniking through I thought that was what's being offered uberfish: oh no, that was just speculation ilios might get some from sciz Darrell: Phone ergo not so great for chats Ich: as for the stooges and ilios: He got Cartography this turn Darrell: Hmm
What's his prod look like?
Brb uberfish: you want graphs?
am I allowed to send those? Ich: 50 around
graphs are no screenshots - I interpret the rule that it is there for scouting... otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to send my paint attempts of how our world might look like around too uberfish: i'll link you the graphs, you wont like them Darrell: Dang uberfish: dont post them in your threads though Darrell: So he probable has at least one very good city Darrell: Jeez
I dunno Ich: yeah uberfish: like every good resource in the game Darrell: I can't even imagine how his prod can go up that fast uberfish: i dont either unless it's a golden age? Darrell: Is one city going to matter?
Well toss more hammers taking it than a settler would cost uberfish: i admit I'm nto really familiar with MP early rush dynamics
because ilios' gnp/prod spiked so recently though I don't know what the trigger was
maybe he is building discount temples/markets Darrell: I think we need time to build up a real force
Too late to rush Ich: I would assume he is building them right now in all 4 cities. That would likely explain it. Look at my mfg. it is not that much smaller and that is with me having smaller cities then he has and only one producing something with a discount uberfish: my war readiness is pretty much zero to be honest Darrell: Sedora I think you shold get the stooges uberfish: like I said I could just take the line that i'm on the opposite side of the map and he's your problem
But I really dont want to see a tech lead turning into someone being quickly assimilated Darrell: I think we need to get equivalent to stooges in hammers from all
If we wre gonna do this
Moroi from us Ich: re Stooges: I can do this, but I think the stooges are equivalent to ~20 warriors hm? Darrell: Yeah they are. Alot
We should go in with a stack that amkes hoim say oh shit uberfish: 335h Darrell: On quick?
How many moroi is that? Ich: yeah on quick. thats 9 moroi I think uberfish: axe/moroi/sword/hunter is 40 apiece Darrell: 5 hunters uber?
You got time to get them over
They can pillage too
That's gonna help uberfish: lemme try and work out the time frmae
because none of this will work if he hits emp or AV+priesthood in time Darrell: Seroda eta the stooges so we can all sim out what we can bringt to the party? uberfish: so i'm not sure if the values I see in the wb are correct for tech costs Darrell: Wen could do stooges if ur reluctant I guess
Probably correct
I hate NTT Ich: ~93 - though I am not sure they are really optimal here. I would rather produce 10 horsemen or so to be honest, I don't feel like the stooges are really good uberfish: ok philo way of the wicked, corruption of spirit, priesthood is ~2500
HBR+philo up to empyrean ~2400 Ich: 2200 uberfish uberfish: he's researching at about 100+ per turn i think Ich: 111 - but there is a bunch of culture I would say (holy city RoK for example)
and probably some temples uberfish: rok doesn't give culture Ich: my bad then uberfish: he is off creative now
so that gnp will be almost all gold+beakers
maybe 20-25 turn window
i think to do somethin in that time frame
needs amelia
as well Ich: yeah - not all that long. thats why I would rather have tried to build some more troops and strike in 10 turns uberfish: cause like 2 radiant guards could mess up the whole thing Ich: lets see - he will build up forces now for his war with the Doviello (yeah, he told me so 15 min ago)
so his GNP might even go down soon if he really intervenes for the dwarves. uberfish: damn it, because the turn wasnt played today I have no idea whether I have copper or not yet Ich: lol - yeah, it gets hard to recognize all that stuff
btw: guys, I have to go, my wife waits to go to bed. uberfish: ok Ich: So, I'll think about all what we discussed today and will right you a email tomorrow with my thoughts and my ideas of what we can do (or at least I try to do that). Till then, have a good night
And lastly I spoke today with Darrell:
Quote: Darrell: got a sec? Ich: yeah, I'm back home from work Darrell: Amelia offered us a NAP to t100
gee, seems like the perfect turn to attack
I am starting to wonder if she is working with Iliios
sunrise is trying to figure out if bloodpets are more efficient than moroi
we will probably do some kind of mix Ich: well, we have a NAP till T100 as well if I am not mistaken Darrell: also, chatted earlier with ubefish and he wants to team with mist from the other front and make tjhis a 4v2
yes we do
we need to extend that obviously
With Amelia if she's not goign to contribute at the least she needs to stand onthe sideline
we want at least 50-60t with her I would think
you might want to do the same, given that she can attack over the coast Ich: I don't even have contact with her Darrell: oh
ok
that's safer
What do you think about ubefish's suggstion?
it made sense to me, I think we get more hammers out of him that way Ich: sec Darrell: sure Ich: as for uberfishs suggestion: I think thats a good idea. I feel that Mist will make sure that he holds up his part of the deal Darrell: he'll have to since he is on the front line Ich: But I would for sure try to get everyone to agree on a certain amount of hammers to spend Darrell: Its unfair otherwise Ich: yeah exactly Darrell: Maybe I should draft like a treaty or something formal
4 teams, agreements, etc.
I think uberfish is the only one with contact with everyone
But he could forward it Ich: If you could do that, that would be great. I fear I don't have time due to PBEM10 Darrell: sure, I will do that Ich: As for our NAP: What do you think about putting a clause in your treaty that we will all have a NAP with each other till the threat of Ilios is taken care of (of course that has to be defined more exact). Darrell: Yeah, with a cooldown as well Ich: Or maybe, threat taken care of + 10 turns - simply to prevent sneak attacks when ones army is still away Darrell: so we can get our army back to our borders
yes
10t might not be enough for us
that would be bilateral I think
so I will do one treaty for the 4 of us, and then a second just between our teams Ich: well, make it as long as you see fit, I don't care too much. Darrell: I think I will include Amelia in the bigger treaty
And then she has to actively reject it
With the implied fallout Ich: Get her to agree to a confidentiality clause before please Darrell: good point Ich: sciz got an offer from mist to help him hit ilios and rejected that (he would have had to pay 200 gold on top if I understood correctly). He instead leaked that offer to Ilios - thats why Ilios will interfere in the war it seems - don't want that to happen with Amelia as well you know Darrell: Yes
Do we think Sciz is impossible to turn?
At this point, he might be more useful as an albatross Ich: Yeah, I guess so. Mist won't accept him anyway I think. Darrell: Okay fair enough
There is a dirty fall back plan
Gibbon Ich: As for the treaty: Think about how we can be fair to the 4 of us. Everyone is investing hammers to hit Ilios but only 2 of us (Mist and I) will actually win land and maybe useful cities - at least the gold from city captures should be divided by the four of us I feel
Yeah, I thought about him already. Darrell: That has not escaped our notice
Nor has the massive unit upkeep will incur
With NTT its hard to figure out how to balance things out, especially with no idea on the map size
Well, we know the size, but not the shape
One idea I had was assitance in taking Amelia out Ich: Well, that could surely be something to talk about Darrell: Yeah
First things first though, let's figure out how to take Ilios down a peg or 4. Ich: yep, thats a good question already. Though I feel that uberfish fear of Empyrean Rathas is not really needed at this point. Ilios needs units NOW, he will focus on that first in my opinion Darrell: Back to Gibbon, if this fails I think we have to go with the nuclear option. Get everyone aligned against him (makes taking out sciz really important) and then the rest is obvious
yes, it takes a while to get those guys
I don't think ilios is goign to stick with RoK
But it will be a wjhile before he hits emp Ich: yes. honestly, I think hitting him early with 15+ troops might make more sense then waiting for 40+ and him having Emp... Darrell: yeah
I've come aroudn to that way of thinking
the problem is one of means
we've get settlers in queue we need to finsih Ich: Especially taking into account that he is putting troops over in the east, is having only 4 cities which he neither can draft nor whip and does have not much higher production then me (and it is painfully slow to get troops...) Darrell: and then if its moroi we need to get a training yard
which is why we are thinkign bloodpets
we are going to delay one of the settlers but the other we need for copper and its closer to being done anyway
by t93 I'm guessin gwe can get you 2 axes and probably 10ish bloodpets with bronze weapons Ich: well, I feel bloodpets are better right now anyway - the same for me with freaks and warriors Darrell: we will have to make 15 bloodpets to do that though
yes
they are more hammer efficient
and str 4 is not much worse than str 5
moroi have burning blood movement which is nice but beggars cant be choosers
Here is nother thought
Does someone tech cartography or do we DoW?
We will move slow without your roads
but the Dow provides cover Ich: when you say you can get by t93 - where will they be? somewhere all over your territory? because it will be another 4 turns from my city to Ilios city Darrell: well most will be in place but there will be stragglers
how far from your copper tile to ilios? Ich: 12W,5N approx. Darrell: wow
so 6 turns
with roads Ich: yep - you will have to go from your copper city NW to my city there, that will be the shortest way Darrell: Okay, prespur will be able to build about 9 bloodpets by then
we might want to only build 7 and get another 4-5 from our other cities
and attack earlier
problem is 7t left on our settler
we'll go with bloodpets right away at our other city Ich: k. my city on the copper will be on warrior duty for now as well.
I'm still thinking about getting Horsemen. More expensive then Warriors, same strenght but sooo much faster Darrell: I know worker turns are crazy prescious right now but canyou spare one worker to help connect to my copper city?
yeah if you have horse you should do that
stables are how many hammers?
if nothing else for pillaging
we've got 3 workers right now Ich: I have horses - just not settled right now. Stable is 67 hammers Darrell: hmm
do you have any settlers in queue? Ich: hard to say without the turn. I think there is one in queue in my cap Darrell: okay if the horse is in ring 1 I guess it makes sense to get that city
you are EXP now so settlers are cheap
actually, you culd in theory build a settler for our copper spot and then gift the city, and we could build 0 settlers Ich: yeah, settler is in queue. Well, I get 37 hammers per turn for a settler - that gives 4 turns till he finishes Darrell: and just do bloodpets immedieatly
hammer wise it makes more sense for youto make the settler for us, and we just build bloodpets Ich: fuck... I thought about gifting you the settler and hated that I can't do it in FFH... Darrell: yeah, you can gift the city but not the settler Ich: yeah... done that in PBEM7 when I couldn't gift the settler to dazedroyalty Darrell: It was a pretty heavy handed solution to the problem of gifting national units
think about it, those hammers will end up being 3 extra bloodpets if I did the math right
and we can start now instead of later
of course, you'll swap ttraits right about now Ich: ok... I don't have issues with getting you a city build with one of my settlers.
thing is
we have to clarify what to do if the others don't accept our treaty and we finally don't attack Ilios - we are commiting right now already and I am ok with that IF we have a clear understanding what everyone will provide Darrell: Yeah...its seriously screwing our expansion and yours too no doubt
and if we pony all this up the real winner is amelia and probably uberfish Ich: Yep, exactly. And those are the two parties which are threatened the most by whats going on right now. uberfish due to Mist finishing Sciz off and Amelia by being the optimal target for Ilios (my land is so bad, he won't want it).
I don't have an issue hitting Ilios, it is time. But not only to have someone else run away with the game. Then I rather would wait, build up my city at the horses, get an understanding with you and hit Ilios with 20 Horsemen which are 3-movers and probably can attack before he realises it Darrell: Right
and by then we could add vamps with spectres
I totally agree
Its everyone on board now or we take our time and do it with t2 or t3 units Ich: Yep - thats fine by me. As for the settler: I would still be ok with finding a trade agreement on it if we don't attack.
So, what is all that talk I posted about? Ilios is obviously running away with the game. uberfish thinks that it is due to that he has an outstanding starting position and land (Gold, Dye, Incense as well as floodplains). Ilios thinks it is due to his worker moves. I think that I don't care who is right, it isn't a lovely sight either way. Oh, and that I really have started at a disadvantage with my starting spot.
Anyway. We are now trying to setup a 5-player-alliance against Ilios. Calabim, Mist, uberfish, Amelia and myself. Well, Mist is obviously lined up against him anyway. The idea right now is to get uberfish to attack together with Mist, have Amelia attack from the south and the Calabim and myself from the east. If that does work out, we should have good chances to take him down a notch... or several. I think if that happens and Ilios realizes it finally he will be pissed first. I would be too. But I really don't see what else to do in this situation. Of course we could come with less players. But having everyone else in that fight as well will make sure that no one can pull ahead by all the others taking care of Ilios.
But chances are that one or more players are not going with us, thinking along the lines of "I can grow stronger than him later". I don't believe that. I have the most cities by next turn and I don't see me making ground onto him if he keeps pulling as he did till now. So, waiting will only make him stronger, similar to what happened in PB2. Still, I am pretty sure that at least Amelia won't help and probably uberfish as well. If that happens then I will probably focus on expansion and work later with the Calabim and T2 and T3 units to get rid of the Malakim. That obviously will be harder to do than attacking now when he is distracted.
Um, no pictures, sorry. I have moved the settler and one warrior on the designated city tile. The other warrior is 1 tile behind them. One Freak is moving up to this new city as well, the other one is moving to Coombe View.
Warrior and Growth next turn in Argenteria, Freak and Growth next turn in Hexam as well (I think, Freak maybe one more turn). Capital will finish Settler EOT75. Same for the worker in Coombe View.
I realised also that I could build an Arena for 2 happy (Arena is replacing the Training Yard and does not only let you produce next tier melee units but provides one happy on top of the happy you get for each Training Yard if you are in Nationhood), Carnival for 1, Freak show for 1 and Pagan Temple for another 1. Total of 5 happy or Pop-cap of 11. Um, would love to do that, if I had more workers that is. But right now I don't see me investing 254 hammer in buildings.
I still believe I have the worst of all (desert hills, desert, plains, no real food-resource) and wouldn't my traits have changed I probably would not be able to compete anymore.
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