[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Ilios]

The Temple of the Empyrean actually gives the city a 10% research bonus.

[Mardoc]

Thanks, Bob! I do try. Although I'll admit most of the motivation was to force myself to read in enough detail that I'd know the religions better myself. Most of my SP-games are Kilmorph, Leaves, OO, or AV on the way to Infernal, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving a good option on the table.

Thank you both for the corrections, especially the one about Empyrean; the manual is flat out wrong there. I had noticed, but discounted, the 75% chance to spawn an Acolyte or Crusader when Order spreads (or is that wrong too and it's really 100%?), since neither unit particularly impressed me to begin with, and I figured you wouldn't be going Order until you had it in many of your cities. It does mean that spreading Order isn't nearly as hammer-expensive as spreading the other religions, though.

[Mardoc]

Well, after a bunch of uneventful turns, this one had quite a bit happen!

First, Mining came in, and revealed Bronze in a bit of a stretch location - more of an argument for settlers above all. I'm sure I want to get to it soon, but maybe I can afford to do so by natural growth up the coast? I don't want to spread my borders too thin, after all.

Also, notice a neat little icon by Varn? Yep, the question of whether I want Kilmorph's holy city is now a bit moot . The good news is that I've got someone to point to if people want to tear down a leader. The bad news, of course, is that's only a silver lining. He's definitely ahead.

Also, we're down to 3 of us who haven't renamed ourselves in game. Time to jump on the bandwagon, if I can do so without being called a wolf! Suggestions? Right now I'm thinking something boring like Marrrrdoc, but maybe I should follow the theme and go for Mardoc the Irin, or Hannah the Mard?


Also, my intrepid explorers to the south kept going, and discovered my earlier assumptions were wrong! The peninsula keeps going, and has both corn, more land than expected, and strange albino jungle bears. Fortunately my warriors are on a jungle hill, so have good odds of surviving. Well, ok, 5 vs 4.5 isn't really that good, but I should at least manage revenge.


And, that text is an unfortunate free golden age if you're Ashen Veil event. Can't I precommit and get the golden age anyway? I promise I'll be evil for you, Agares...

I gotta say, haphazard, I like this kind of hard choice - all the wonderful city sites, just a debate where I go first! Of course, this would be horrible land for a non-Lanun, but as it is,

Currently thinking the best place for city3 is on the currently unrevealed westernmost tile. Or maybe on the hill with the sign. Depending on what I find, assuming my explorers live to find out, maybe this should even be the next city founded, leaving 'city2' to be a filler for later. If I'm willing to disrupt my current pattern of cove locations, I might be able to fit in 3, or even 4 coves, in addition to corn and hill and forest.

I definitely want about 5 settlers ASAP, though. What's the best way to prioritize the city sites? Any suggestions, Dave?

[DaveV]

What's the best way to prioritize the city sites? Any suggestions, Dave?

I'd save the peninsula for later and push for bronze as your 3rd city. Bronze warriors are good enough to keep you safe for a long time, and strong enough to survive animal attacks and be good explorers.

[Mardoc]

I'd save the peninsula for later and push for bronze as your 3rd city. Bronze warriors are good enough to keep you safe for a long time, and strong enough to survive animal attacks and be good explorers.

Well, that's not what I expected to hear! On the other hand, I didn't ask you aboard so I could ignore you, either. I just would have put bronze further down the priority list, probably.

Still, you've got a good point about the security bronze would grant me. So I think I'll listen up, and yes, make that my third city. It's a stretch, but it's a stretch that bronze will help me pull off. Thinking about it - I can't afford not to have bronze, long term. I've been assuming that all the land I see is naturally mine, since I haven't found a neighbor, but that might be a dangerous assumption with something this important.

So, what follows from that? Well, I need to recall Mr. Light/Strong; I'm probably losing a warrior to the bear, so I can't afford to spend him on exploration anymore; plus, if bronze is in the near future, it'd be nice for him to survive to use it . I need to push Sailing up in the order of techs; I don't think there's any way I can make and hold a road from city 3 to Cap'n Crunch sooner than I fill in the gaps with cities. And, I need to send off my worker with the settler, so I can get the bronze connected ASAP.

That makes the current build queue for Cap'n Crunch something like settler(finish)-settler-warrior-warrior-boat-worker-boat-boat-boat-boat. (I can work one cove in city 3 before borders expand, but the rest need to wait for borders). That ought to be enough to get cities 2 and 3 off to a roaring start, so then I'll need to reevaluate and see what makes sense for getting the next batch of cities founded. Meanwhile, I expect the new cities to pretty much only contribute monuments for cultural expansion. Maybe they can take responsibility for future cities' garrisons and work boats, while Cap'n Crunch sticks to workers and settlers. That seems like a reasonable division of labor, given that Cap'n Crunch has a very large food surplus, while the new cities both need to grow and don't have quite as much food supply, especially while I'm growing the coves.

[DaveV]

Right now I'm thinking something boring like Marrrrdoc, but maybe I should follow the theme and go for Mardoc the Irin, or Hannah the Mard?

Missed this earlier. I like Marrrrdoc, but maybe you should make it more obvious, like mARRRdoc (I cut back on the number of Rs to match your thread title). I had to look twice to figure out what you were trying to do.

[Mardoc]

mARRRdoc it is.

The bear did kill a warrior, as predicted, and was at 0.5/5 health, so my own warrior finished him off. Strong/light is on his way home to replace the dead warrior.

I'm debating if it makes sense to found city4, then bronze, instead of city2, then bronze - if I seal off my peninsula, I ought to be able to come back for it, right? I think it'll partially depend on what I end up deciding for city3's location and coves.

And, I'm debating what makes sense for adjusting my dotmap in light of the new information. In particular, I'm considering moving city2 1 SE to the forest hill; as below. This weakens city2, losing the forested hill and another forest, plus a sugar, but would make it a lot easier to fit in coves around city3. So far, I don't think this makes sense, but I'm irritated by city3 - it's almost surrounded by ocean, yet I can't figure out how to fit in more than one cove without disrupting the rest of my dotmap. The only thing that buys me any extra coves is planting directly on the corn, but I'm not convinced that's worth it either.

At the moment, the plan is to leave city2 where it is, then go straight for city 5 (bronze), backfill to city 4, then push out the northern peninsula and the Mirror site. Unless you can see something I'm missing, city3 will have a lot of coast, but only one cove, so it can wait a long time. City3 goes on the light blue site on the end of the peninsula.

[DaveV]

I'm debating if it makes sense to found city4, then bronze, instead of city2, then bronze.

Yes, this is what I had in mind. Not a lot of time for posting, so I haven't been giving you very detailed advice. Sorry.

I've always found it best to build cities in a nice straight line, otherwise you can run into some bad luck with barbarians and possibly lose your settler. They're a lot safer when moving mostly through your own culture.

And, I'm debating what makes sense for adjusting my dotmap in light of the new information. In particular, I'm considering moving city2 1 SE to the forest hill; as below. This weakens city2, losing the forested hill and another forest, plus a sugar, but would make it a lot easier to fit in coves around city3. So far, I don't think this makes sense, but I'm irritated by city3 - it's almost surrounded by ocean, yet I can't figure out how to fit in more than one cove without disrupting the rest of my dotmap. The only thing that buys me any extra coves is planting directly on the corn, but I'm not convinced that's worth it either.

I don't see this as being a big problem. That city's reason for existence is to claim bronze. Having even one cove is a bonus. With corn, copper, and lots of hills, it can become your production center.

At the moment, the plan is to leave city2 where it is, then go straight for city 5 (bronze), backfill to city 4, then push out the northern peninsula and the Mirror site. Unless you can see something I'm missing, city3 will have a lot of coast, but only one cove, so it can wait a long time. City3 goes on the light blue site on the end of the peninsula.

How about moving the city 5 and city 4 coves one tile north? Then you could squeeze in two for city 3.

[Mardoc]

Yes, this is what I had in mind. Not a lot of time for posting, so I haven't been giving you very detailed advice. Sorry.

Hey, I knew what I was getting into with a Dedicated Lurker. I appreciate all you can help, and otherwise I'll keep forging ahead. If you had time to treat them all as full time games, that's probably how you'd have signed up

I've always found it best to build cities in a nice straight line, otherwise you can run into some bad luck with barbarians and possibly lose your settler. They're a lot safer when moving mostly through your own culture.

Ok, that makes sense to me too. City 4 -> City 5 it is.

I don't see this as being a big problem. That city's reason for existence is to claim bronze. Having even one cove is a bonus. With corn, copper, and lots of hills, it can become your production center.

How about moving the city 5 and city 4 coves one tile north? Then you could squeeze in two for city 3.

Hmm, that might work, just gotta see how that affects the rest of the dotmap. Fortunately I've got a bunch of time to think on that subject.

It would give an extra cove to city5 and take one from city4, but that might make sense anyway. Would end up with an ungodly amount of production here, for the Lanun anyway.

I'm starting to think it might make sense to put Heron Throne in the city3 site - it's certainly my most coast/ocean site, and by the time I've founded it, I can probably afford the diversion for a wonder.

[Mardoc]

Well - I learned one good thing today. Even with a plan, don't try to play a blitz after 5 hours of 'sleep' on an air mattress at your brother-in-law's house.

I have a shiny new Elder Council instead of the progress toward settler I wanted, Captain Crunch grew so now I'm losing 3 food/turn to the unhappy and unhealthy, I managed to lose Strong/Light at 70% odds against a Goblin when I really should have waited a turn and let him attack me on the jungled hill...at least I didn't lose my settler and worker, since I did at least wait for my second warrior escort.

All in all, I've got some recovery to do. And once I catch up on sleep, I'll make a T50 report of where I'm at and how I plan to get out of this mess. And also take another look at my dotmap and cove placement plans.