A question on mods.

[Blake]

I was thinking about writing a mod that would keep track of certain things for a player to reduce attention span required. For example, it would inform the player when whip-weariness is about to wear off, and also when a specialist has been automatically created (this is critical to keep GP points pure).

If at all possible it will be save game compatiable, so it could be put in and out of custom assets on a whim.

The thing is, I only really care about such attention to detail in competitive games.

So the question is, would such a mod be legal, or ever considered for legality, in RB Civ games?

[Sirian]

That type of mod (info only) could be considered. However, since it would bring a substantive advantage to any user, it would almost need to be adopted as an official default, with players allowed to opt out but the presumption being that most everybody uses it. It would be the RBCiv equivalent of steroids and cause tension between users and non-users. We would need to make almost everybody in to a user, the opposite of what we have now, where no tools of this type are currently approved or allowed.

I admit that the interface falls short of perfect, and that it would be a good thing to improve on it. However, needing to run a mod to participate on an even keel with the regulars would intimidate some users and shrink our pool of potential new players, perhaps even cost us some of our current players. The mod would have to be something special to warrant these costs.

Though possible, I should think the odds are long. If you are so on the borderline of what is or isn't fun that not having this kind of tool on hand would be a dealbreaker for you, it may be best to seek a less competitive place to play, one where this issue wouldn't cause any side effects.

I've spelled out how members in the community can move toward getting mods approved. There's been talk, but so far no significant follow through. The doors are still open, though.


- Sirian

I was thinking about writing a mod that would keep track of certain things for a player to reduce attention span required. For example, it would inform the player when whip-weariness is about to wear off, and also when a specialist has been automatically created (this is critical to keep GP points pure).

If at all possible it will be save game compatiable, so it could be put in and out of custom assets on a whim.

The thing is, I only really care about such attention to detail in competitive games.

So the question is, would such a mod be legal, or ever considered for legality, in RB Civ games?

[Qwack]

We would need to make almost everybody in to a user, the opposite of what we have now, where no tools of this type are currently approved or allowed.

I might have misunderstood, does this mean that one of those event loggers is not allowed in RB events? I hope they are because I already used it for epic 2. Uh oh . And also that mod which tells you the turn and time instead of only the date in the game in the upper right hand corner... Damn I knew I should have asked before I used it..

[Blake]

Though possible, I should think the odds are long. If you are so on the borderline of what is or isn't fun that not having this kind of tool on hand would be a dealbreaker for you, it may be best to seek a less competitive place to play, one where this issue wouldn't cause any side effects.

That less competitive enviroment where I wouldn't feel compelled to play to a high standard ?
Well it really is about perfectionism rather than competition. Like I AM going to check my cities every turn for a couple of things. Naturally given that I'm already willing to expend the time to do this, the inability to automate the process some would not be a dealbreaker.

Pyscological factors aside (confused cause and effect) I believe that users of the mod would tend to beat non-users, but not on the basis of the mod, rather the people who benefit from the mod are those who already have finely tuned their game. Not that less experienced players wouldn't benefit from the mod, they would because they'd figure out that the new events are of significance.

I know about dangerous precedents... so the mod mission would have to be restrictive and well defined.
"The mod adds new events, for significant changes in values which otherwise must be monitored on a turn-by-turn basis by the player. Things like anger timers expiring, stealth changes made by the city governor, "significant" border expansion (that which brings new unimproved resources into city radius), "significant" hostile units spotted (those which are actually on a friendly tile improvement rather than just loitering).
In short, it converts things that must be manually monitored by the player and cannot be done so quickly, into events that can be processed at a glance.

So the questions are:
1) Would you like to use such a mod?
2) Do you think it gives a competitive advantage or just a time-savings advantage?
3) Do you think it forces non-perfectionists to play as perfectionists in a way that is detremental to their/your enjoyment of the game?
4) Generally, would it make the game more or less of a chore to play?

PS. I've made a Proof of Concept. Sooome things are pretty easy to do. The specialist-allocation code is a little grizzly tho, I think I'll go around it.

[Sirian]

I might have misunderstood, does this mean that one of those event loggers is not allowed in RB events? I hope they are because I already used it for epic 2. Uh oh . And also that mod which tells you the turn and time instead of only the date in the game in the upper right hand corner... Damn I knew I should have asked before I used it..

The tournament rules are posted. We expect new players to read them in their entirety, first, and only then post any questions they may have.

Currently, no mods are approved for use.

Infractions are handled case by case. We do appreciate honesty and forthrightness. Usually, a game is not scored (called a "Shadow" game) if there has been a clear infraction. Occasionally, a warning is issued instead. You are still allowed to report, though -- unless, due to repeat offenses or flagrancy (not at issue here) we ask you not to do so.

I'm sorry for the bump in the road. New players always have things to learn and it's common to see something learned the hard way. If you are having fun with the event, I hope you will finish. The fun is the main point. We have rules to extend the fun and try to protect that for everybody. Boundaries have to be set. I try to set them as clearly as possible.

Thanks for speaking up.


- Sirian

[Qwack]

Not to whine or anything, but the reason I used the event logger was to make a better and more detailed report. I dont see why something like an event logger isnt approved here at RB, since it doesnt change anything at all in-game.

[Sirian]

I dont see why something like {fill in the blank: _______ } isnt approved here at RB...

I've edited your reply, above, to illustrate why. We don't have the time, the energy, or the inclination to argue about the rules. You only see your case, but I have to deal with every case. That's not productive.

We're a small volunteer staff of busy people. Most of our players want us to spend our limited time and energy available to this cause in ways that benefit the majority and maintain what we have going here.

A process has been spelled out whereby the community can undertake to get mods approved. (Look around for it if you like.) Nobody has cared enough to do the necessary work for any given mod, thus none are yet approved.

If you feel strongly that the mods you like should be approved, you are welcome to engage the approval process.


- Sirian