RBPBEM FfH V [SPOILERS] Sareln of the Amurites

[Sareln]

Post Amurite/Sidar and Amurite/Clan Settling Agreement Dot Map

Gives me a total of about 5.5 cities. Size and shape of agreed sites almost certainly guarantee a mid-game war with either Clan or Sidar.

Light blue City is filler, but will probably get settled before the cities it's filling in, due to the fact that it grabs both Sugar and Gems, and increased happy cap is important. Eventually I will just fill it with farms and run specialists or something, since Aristocracy is going to be in the cards eventually.

Founding Order is Green->Blue->Teal->Red->Yellow

Clan agreement is tentatively that neither of us can found on the other's side, or on the Odio's Prison North/South Line, though I carved out an exemption for the clam city in the south. City found order persuant to change on a copper reveal. If copper is revealed on the clan's side of the line, there was really no way I was going to grab it anyways, so I shouldn't feel too bad about it.

[Sareln]

Both of the last two turns have been very quiet on the actual game front, explains why we've all had time to focus on the diplomacy part. On the plus side, I finish crafting, start in on mining, and proc the event that gives me 10% of the tech (20 beakers or so, about 2/3's of a turn's worth of research).

Mining in 6.

Turn 43:

Turn 44:

[Sareln]

YACWB:

Synopsis: Noise and speculation upon what the clan could be up to. I forget to mention that Tredje is probably considering a settling agreement that he and I worked out. Not too important. I just don't want Bob to meddle in it while the jury is still out on whether the Clan will buy it.

(11:49:03 AM) Sareln: Did you panic Tredje by declaring war on him or something? He appears to have locked up...
(11:49:14 AM) BobChllingsworth: no idea what his deal is
(11:49:22 AM) BobChllingsworth: SL already asked me :P
(11:49:29 AM) BobChllingsworth: the guy was online like all yesterday
(11:49:34 AM) BobChllingsworth: and his thread keeps getting updated
(11:49:57 AM) Sareln: Yeah, that's why I figured it's a game thing and not an RL thing
(11:50:04 AM) Sareln: maybe Squareleg threatened Tredje?
(11:50:11 AM) Sareln: or vice-versa I suppose
(11:50:13 AM) Sareln: though, really
(11:50:19 AM) Sareln: that would be silly on either one's part...
(11:50:22 AM) BobChllingsworth: I'd worry that he decided to declare on me with that wolf rider, but last I saw it was out of range
(11:50:35 AM) Sareln: hrm
(11:50:49 AM) Sareln: Geographically, I don't expect to see the Clan attack the Dwarves or vice-versa
(11:51:05 AM) Sareln: b/c the end result, even with amazing success, is a strung out empire...
(11:52:08 AM) BobChllingsworth: maybe you were attacked?
(11:52:25 AM) Sareln: It's certainly possible
(11:52:40 AM) Sareln: though I didn't have vision on any clan for miles around
(11:52:47 AM) Sareln: and, well, with the mirror, that's a long ways.
(11:53:27 AM) BobChllingsworth: no idea then
(11:53:43 AM) BobChllingsworth: I'd think that if he was going to declare on one of us he'd send an email anyway
(11:54:07 AM) Sareln: yeah, it's the polite thing to do
(11:54:38 AM) Sareln: PB was practically apologetic that I found out about my Elemination from Dave rather than from him.
(1:46:45 PM) BobChllingsworth: grrrrrrrr
(1:46:53 PM) BobChllingsworth: I sent a PM to Mardoc to see what's up
(1:47:35 PM) BobChllingsworth: he's holding the turn because tredje told him that they needed to discuss "something" before he played which was diplo related, and then tredje never got back to him
(2:40:58 PM) Sareln: thar is now a "I'm very sorry" message in the text thread
(2:41:07 PM) Sareln: he's lucky I got to him first I suppose :P
(2:41:12 PM) BobChllingsworth: haha
(2:41:24 PM) BobChllingsworth: I do wonder what his "special situation" is
(2:41:35 PM) Sareln: Same, intensely curious
(2:41:44 PM) Sareln: best guess is it involves squareleg
(2:41:55 PM) Sareln: or the fact that Iskender has the least power rating to the tune of maybe 2 warriors...
(2:42:08 PM) Sareln: and now that's 2 - 3 warriors over 2 cities.
(2:42:09 PM) BobChllingsworth: ah iskender is lowest in power?
(2:42:18 PM) Sareln: oh right, you haven't met him
(2:42:20 PM) Sareln: yes
(2:42:24 PM) Sareln: Iskender is lowest in power.
(2:42:27 PM) BobChllingsworth: I haven't check the demos in a while either
(2:43:06 PM) BobChllingsworth: it's a lot easier to just ask people what they're doing than try to crunch the weirdly distorted ffh numbers
(2:43:24 PM) BobChllingsworth: plus I don't really see the advantage
(2:43:44 PM) BobChllingsworth: not like you can do much about someone's high whatever
(2:43:50 PM) Sareln: not much really. Mostly confirms the paranoia :D
(2:44:09 PM) Sareln: yeah, I only really use the GNP benchmark in the early game to theorize about the quality of other's starts...
(2:44:45 PM) Sareln: oh nm, he did catch a clue
(2:45:45 PM) Sareln: he's probably closer to 4-5 warriors for 2 cities now.
(2:45:57 PM) Sareln: alright then, I'm all out of ideas for what Tredje could've been up to.
(2:48:25 PM) BobChllingsworth: maybe attacking me with that wolf rider, although again I'm all but certain that he couldn't reach me in a turn. Maybe he'd still attack regardless. It's possible that I gave him the idea when I questioned him what he was doing with the unit, although I'd be amazed if it hadn't at least occured to him beforehand
(2:48:48 PM) BobChllingsworth: or maybe he was wondering about when to use that worldspell
(2:49:06 PM) BobChllingsworth: choking players while orthus shows up could be a viable strat... I guess
(2:51:01 PM) Sareln: or just giving Orthus some support/backup and let him do the killing
(2:51:11 PM) Sareln: since typically the civ kills orthus by zerging him.
(2:53:01 PM) BobChllingsworth: yeah- covering him with a gobo archer would be nasty
(2:53:23 PM) BobChllingsworth: and you'd want to deploy the spell a little early to get severything in position
(2:54:36 PM) Sareln: hmm, can't be too early though
(2:54:50 PM) Sareln: b/c the map doesn't start spawning orcs/goblins until T-X
(2:54:55 PM) Sareln: where X is less than 50 (Orthus)
(2:55:04 PM) Sareln: but more than 40 by inspection
(2:55:09 PM) Sareln: it may even be 50 itself.
(2:55:14 PM) BobChllingsworth: fort goblins are already out though
(2:55:50 PM) BobChllingsworth: barb warriors might not even have much of a presence ever in this game
(2:56:25 PM) BobChllingsworth: possibly too many living barbs overseas surpressing the count, and close quarters fog busting on the mainland
(2:57:31 PM) Sareln: hmm, true.
(2:58:17 PM) BobChllingsworth: he's online how, you could always just ask him
(2:58:47 PM) BobChllingsworth: "please tell me all the secret plans"
(2:58:56 PM) BobChllingsworth: maybe threaten him to sweeten the deal
(3:00:31 PM) Sareln: you could do so yourself :P
(3:00:44 PM) Sareln: I'm already penned in between Clan and Sidar, I'll be happy enough to be left alone

[Sareln]

Hearing whispers from Bob and Squareleg that the Clan has fired For the Horde. Is that a "no" then?

Bob theorizes that they'll try to use a gobbo archer to cover orthus against whoever he lands next to. If that's the case, hoping it's not me.

[Sareln]

A chat with Squareleg:
Synopsis: Theorizing about the yield from call of the horde, some demographics C&D knowledge tossed around, some hunting around in the XML. Also talk of asking Iskender where Orthus spawns.

(9:57:10 AM) Squareleg: Hey Sareln, are you free? np if not.
(9:57:22 AM) Sareln: Yeah, I'm free to chat
(9:57:23 AM) Sareln: what's up?
(9:57:44 AM) Squareleg: not much really - just wanted to speculate about the clan and for the horde - have you seen the power graph?
(9:57:57 AM) Sareln: 68k soldier points
(9:58:12 AM) Sareln: up from something like 20k before that, iirc
(9:58:29 AM) Sareln: so his collection of warriors + wolfrider add some gobbos and gobbo-archers
(9:58:38 AM) Sareln: I don't know what each is worth demographics wise though.
(9:58:59 AM) Squareleg: Thats 48k and a warrior is 2k don't know what an archer is - I think wolf rider is 4k
(9:59:20 AM) Squareleg: his gnp dropped to about 10
(9:59:26 AM) Sareln: is there a way to read it from the XML?
(9:59:42 AM) Squareleg: so i can't see that he got that many troops... it doesn't add up
(9:59:56 AM) Squareleg: I not that good - but yeah - its there somewhere
(10:00:32 AM) Squareleg: he can't have got the sons of the inferno as it was patched out i think wasn't it?
(10:02:06 AM) Sareln: yeah, he can't pull sons
(10:02:13 AM) Sareln: he can only pull things with Orc promotion
(10:02:17 AM) Sareln: let me double-check the code
(10:02:23 AM) Squareleg: ok
(10:04:24 AM) Sareln: yeah, they can only pull non-hero units with the orc promotion
(10:04:34 AM) Sareln: with specific exclusion rules written for Disciples and Sons
(10:05:02 AM) Squareleg: He must have got a lot of good stuff then!
(10:05:28 AM) Squareleg: I had a warrior near a goblin fort when he cast it.
(10:05:37 AM) Squareleg: he got an archer
(10:05:52 AM) Sareln: Hrm, I'm buzzing a warrior out to the gobbo fort near me to check
(10:05:56 AM) Sareln: should know when I next see the turn.
(10:06:56 AM) Squareleg: i have only seen 1 fort and I've explored most of the eastern half of the map already
(10:07:04 AM) Squareleg: are there many near you?
(10:08:02 AM) Sareln: there's only one to my south-east.
(10:08:18 AM) Sareln: however, I've got 2 lairs between me and Iskender that are making things rough :P
(10:08:47 AM) Squareleg: urgh
(10:09:06 AM) Squareleg: actually - talking about the sidar...
(10:09:54 AM) Squareleg: I was wondering if you fancied a loan of any of my palace mana once KotE is in in exchange for some metamagic - need a tr of course
(10:10:16 AM) Sareln: I'd be interested of course.
(10:10:29 AM) Squareleg: enchant, life and earth
(10:10:32 AM) Sareln: ah
(10:11:08 AM) Sareln: yeah, enchant would be nice. I've go the tomb of Succellus nearby and I've never been quite impressed by earth.
(10:11:21 AM) Sareln: I assume you want to come up with magic-eyes? :P
(10:11:53 AM) Squareleg: maybe...
(10:12:23 AM) Squareleg: only way to defend his WS isn't it?
(10:13:03 AM) Squareleg: I was under the impression Hawks won't work.
(10:13:33 AM) Sareln: I thought that hawks had truesight
(10:13:35 AM) Sareln: not sure
(10:13:42 AM) Sareln: metamagic I would definitely work though
(10:14:23 AM) Squareleg: welll - I'm going to have some adepts for Repair so they fit better with my tech path.
(10:15:52 AM) Squareleg: getting a TR might be tricky for us though but I guess we'll approach that in the future.
(10:17:03 AM) Sareln: Yeah, I don't see any convenient rivers that we share. But as you say, it's a ways off, we'll worry about it later.
(10:18:07 AM) Squareleg: I was just checking my thread for that - TR's have a funny way of pathing themselves so we may get lucky!
(10:18:25 AM) Sareln: here's to hoping.
(10:18:40 AM) Sareln: btw, are you sure that the wolf-rider is 4k?
(10:18:54 AM) Sareln: I'm looking at a units iPower
(10:19:01 AM) Sareln: and the warrior has 3, and a wolf rider 8
(10:19:10 AM) Squareleg: no - that was a guestimate based on the clans graph when they got one earlier in the game
(10:19:24 AM) Sareln: so if it's a direct conversion, the wolf-rider would be about 5,300 soldier points
(10:20:01 AM) Squareleg: thats more than i thought.
(10:21:09 AM) Squareleg: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18370161/FFH2PBE...282%29.JPG
(10:21:16 AM) Squareleg: you can see the leap here
(10:21:38 AM) Squareleg: it does look more on second thoughts...
(10:22:06 AM) Squareleg: Can you see the clan borders?
(10:22:24 AM) Sareln: yes
(10:22:30 AM) Sareln: they settled their 2nd city near the dragon bones
(10:22:45 AM) Sareln: and sit on the chokepoint which I theorize cuts Iskender and I off from the rest of you
(10:22:51 AM) Squareleg: Is it on a river that flows in from the east?
(10:22:56 AM) Sareln: the ruins of Patria are on another chokepoint further north.
(10:23:04 AM) Squareleg: below a lake?
(10:23:14 AM) Sareln: opening my map :P
(10:24:10 AM) Sareln: alright, so the remnants of patria are on a lake, awkwardly shaped
(10:24:17 AM) Sareln: that lake creates 2 chokes
(10:24:22 AM) Sareln: in the north, the one between you and Iskender
(10:24:27 AM) Sareln: in the south, the one the clan is sitting on
(10:24:36 AM) Sareln: there's a gobbo fort on the south-lakeside as well
(10:24:50 AM) Sareln: a river does come from the east and run into the lake though
(10:25:36 AM) Squareleg: can you get a tr to that lake? I have a city placed on the river that flows into the lake
(10:26:02 AM) Sareln: nope, the sidar and the clan are reacing for that
(10:26:14 AM) Sareln: and I'm not about to intersperse myself between them :D
(10:26:24 AM) Squareleg: heh
(10:26:25 AM) Sareln: *interpose
(10:26:28 AM) Squareleg: i understand!
(10:27:21 AM) Sareln: alright, officially the clan jump was from 22k -> 68k
(10:27:28 AM) Squareleg: I don't know if there are any other rivers that flow into the sidar side of that lake that then head toweards you
(10:27:34 AM) Sareln: since their power was ever so slightly less than mine before
(10:27:49 AM) Squareleg: but if there are then we only don't need OB to trade through their territory
(10:27:53 AM) Sareln: (maybe 23k)
(10:28:06 AM) Sareln: we'll see
(10:28:13 AM) Squareleg: yeha
(10:28:13 AM) Sareln: not hopeful from where I'm sitting though
(10:30:57 AM) Squareleg: do you know how much the clan GNP dropped? I haven't shot the demogs from last turn but from the graphs it looks to have dropped to about 9 from whatever yours was last turn. About 18?
(10:30:58 AM) Squareleg: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18370161/FFH2PBE...ts/T46.JPG
(10:31:25 AM) Squareleg: With no libraries etc in play that is bound to all be units
(10:31:30 AM) Squareleg: maintenance
(10:31:39 AM) Squareleg: so 9-10 units most likely
(10:32:21 AM) Squareleg: I suppose that assumes that he was and is at break-even
(10:32:49 AM) Sareln: He's at rival worse 11 (9 + 2 culture)
(10:32:54 AM) Sareln: let me load the previous turn
(10:33:13 AM) Squareleg: sorry - i'm not at my civ pc...
(10:33:52 AM) Sareln: no problem
(10:34:30 AM) Sareln: Yeah, from 20 (18 + 2 culture) to 11 (9 + 2 culture)
(10:34:44 AM) Sareln: I'd estimate that as 10 - 11 units actually
(10:34:52 AM) Sareln: since he has a 2nd city
(10:34:59 AM) Squareleg: well there will be unit supply too
(10:35:06 AM) Sareln: yeah
(10:35:06 AM) Squareleg: oh yeah
(10:35:12 AM) Sareln: that's the fudge to handle supply
(10:35:26 AM) Squareleg: and he may be running deficit or surplus
(10:35:59 AM) Sareln: probably deficit, if he is
(10:36:01 AM) Sareln: but unlikely
(10:36:23 AM) Sareln: I need to find the goblin-archers in the XML still
(10:37:25 AM) Sareln: by my math, Goblin Archers should be worth 4k
(10:37:38 AM) Sareln: alright, he's running deficit then.
(10:38:31 AM) Squareleg: so 46k worth of troops and probably 10 units... he got some good shit!
(10:40:05 AM) Sareln: standard (Str. 3 poison) goblins are only worth 1.3k soldier points
(10:40:08 AM) Sareln: so yeah
(10:40:13 AM) Sareln: definitely deficit
(10:40:36 AM) Squareleg: wonder if he has enough to avoid strike...
(10:40:51 AM) Sareln: no idea
(10:41:20 AM) Sareln: have you been talking to Bob at all btw? He's pretty convinced the play is to gaurd orthus with archers against whoever he targets.
(10:42:05 AM) Squareleg: no - I haven't spoken to bob apart from when the turn was held up for ages.
(10:42:13 AM) Squareleg: That would be cruels....
(10:42:50 AM) Squareleg: Iskender is the only one who sees where Orthus spawns going last in the turn...
(10:43:00 AM) Squareleg: maybe need to approach him about that
(10:43:08 AM) Sareln: yeah, that's probably a good idea.
(10:43:19 AM) Sareln: I don't think his map is very good though
(10:43:24 AM) Sareln: so it may just all be fog to him...
(10:43:48 AM) Squareleg: general direction is nice though.
(10:44:00 AM) Squareleg: nice talking to you - I've gotta dash now.
(10:44:03 AM) Sareln: ciao!
Squareleg is typing...

[Mist]

He *can* get Sons of Inferno. Do a test in a sandbox game ( I did, both in MP and SP I got Sons from ForTheHorde ). My guess is that Loyalty exception got broken yet again and noone noticed.

So I would not instantly assume it's impossible and do some serious scouting instead.

Unit worth in demogs : Goblin 2k, Warriors 3k, Archers 6k, Sons 6k, Wolfriders 8k.

[Sareln]

He *can* get Sons of Inferno. Do a test in a sandbox game ( I did, both in MP and SP I got Sons from ForTheHorde ). My guess is that Loyalty exception got broken yet again and noone noticed.

So I would not instantly assume it's impossible and do some serious scouting instead.

Unit worth in demogs : Goblin 2k, Warriors 3k, Archers 6k, Sons 6k, Wolfriders 8k.

Whenever possible, I prefer looking at code instead of sandboxing. Might as well take advantage of my literacy in it when I can.

Here's the Python:

Code:

def spellForTheHorde(caster):
    pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
    iHero = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HERO')
    iOrc = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_ORC')
    iDisciple = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_DISCIPLE_OF_ACHERON')
    iSon = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_SON_OF_THE_INFERNO')
    py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
    for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
        if (pUnit.getRace() == iOrc and pUnit.isHasPromotion(iHero) == False):
            if ( (pUnit.getUnitClassType()!= iDisciple) and (pUnit.getUnitClassType()!= iSon) ):
                if CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob") < 50:
                    pPlot = pUnit.plot()
                    for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits(), -1, -1):
                        pNewPlot = -1
                        pLoopUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
                        if pLoopUnit.isHiddenNationality():
                            pNewPlot = cf.findClearPlot(pLoopUnit, -1)
                            if pNewPlot != -1:
                                pLoopUnit.setXY(pNewPlot.getX(), pNewPlot.getY(), false, true, true)
                    newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
                    newUnit.convert(pUnit)

*record screeching halt sound* oh damnation, you're right Mist. This is what I get for just grabbing the closest source file and assuming that it's the same if I haven't changed anything! The above is from my current mod build, and the fix probably came in thanks to Tholal's better Naval AI mod.

Here's the code for the current game:

Code:

def spellForTheHorde(caster):
    pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
    iHero = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HERO')
    iOrc = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_ORC')
    py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
    for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
        if (pUnit.getRace() == iOrc and pUnit.isHasPromotion(iHero) == False):
            if CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob") < 50:
                pPlot = pUnit.plot()
                for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits(), -1, -1):
                    pNewPlot = -1
                    pLoopUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
                    if pLoopUnit.isHiddenNationality():
                        pNewPlot = cf.findClearPlot(pLoopUnit, -1)
                        if pNewPlot != -1:
                            pLoopUnit.setXY(pNewPlot.getX(), pNewPlot.getY(), false, true, true)
                newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
                newUnit.convert(pUnit)

As you can/might see here, the first code has blockers in for the Sons of the Inferno and the Disciples of Acheron, but the second (and the code we're playing under) does not.

Here's a screenshot of my C&D spreadsheet.

[Sareln]

Diplomacy:

[COLOR="Magenta"]Tredje, Mardoc,

Per previous diplo chat, we've gone through ~3 turns (T45 - T47) since discussing the settling deal, you've got until T49 before I *need* an answer, but getting it earlier would be a bonus. Do both of you find the terms acceptable or do you still need more time to deliberate?

Ciao!

-Sareln-[/COLOR]

[Sareln]

Newsflash from the future: I have a Copper Location!

[Sareln]

Turns 45 - 49:

Big turn news on T45 was the Call of the Horde being fired. I start pushing a warrior out towards the local goblin for to see what's up.

I experiment with some micromangement, total production unchanged but with +1 commerce to work a farm instead of a plains/hill/forest.

Tredje/Mardoc did manage to pull a goblin archer from the local fort. I fortify my warrior on the hill, but should probably consider either pulling him back of deploying some more warriors to clear the fort while I'm not at war with Tredje.

Jackpot.