RBP4 [SPOILERS] - Shaka of Zulu (sunrise089, regoarrarr, and friends)

[darrelljs]

I've been told you can catch up in pop, GNP and production if you wage a successful military campaign against an unsuspecting and/or unfocused neighbour. :neenernee

Too bad we don't have any proof of this theory yet .

Of course, now that I type that I'll open the save and find some Real Bad News .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

As I understand it (and there's a great article on CFC about it), with Sailing, in order to get a trade route, each coast tile between your lands and the other civ's has to be either defogged by you or owned by a non-hostile civ (OB not required just not at war).

A better article is here. The bolded section under "Further Conditions" and the last paragraph essentially confirms your belief.

Darrell

[Ellimist]

I've been told you can catch up in pop, GNP and production if you wage a successful military campaign against an unsuspecting and/or unfocused neighbour.

Too bad we don't have any proof of this theory yet .

Didn't this work for the Ottoman team in RBP2?

[Krill]

Eh, they are trash talking on past and present games.

[regoarrarr]

Intriguing chat with luddite

luddite: I'll be declaring war on Mackoti next turn
regoarrarr: really?
luddite: yeah
regoarrarr: awesome
(i guess)
luddite: haha, well we'll see
regoarrarr: at least it will be something useful
luddite: i might be making a big mistake here
but it's too late to turn back now
regoarrarr: is this due to that choke point?
luddite: yeah- basically the land just isn't big enough for both of us
if i let him claim the choke point, i'd be squeezed out
regoarrarr: do you border LP on the other side?
luddite: yeah- he's still pretty far away though
regoarrarr: yeah
but expanding like crazy
luddite: indeedd
i'll try my best to contain him too
regoarrarr: cool
so we had had some thought about building the ToA or colossus
did you plan on either of those?
luddite: heh well
i was going to build the colossus, yeah
regoarrarr: right
i'm not surprised
luddite: you can build the ToA if you want, although Parkin said that he's planning on building that one
regoarrarr: oh really?
okay
luddite: so you'll have to hurry
i don't think he's started yet, though
regoarrarr: ok
i guess i'll talk to him about it
Sent at 09:53 on Wednesday
regoarrarr: so assuming you're going to get the colossus in a fairly timely fashion we won't be competing
since you already have MC and you're industrious
luddite: yeah
it's a little delicate though
obviously i need to build units right now
regoarrarr: right
luddite: but I think I can afford to squeeze in the colossus
it's really cheap with copper
regoarrarr: sure
and ind
do you think you'll be able to take the choke city?
if you want to send some maps of the area, i'll ask sunrise to give some mp warfare tips
if you want
i don't know how experienced you are with mp war
luddite: i have some experience- nothing like this of course
regoarrarr: ok
luddite: I think i'll be ok though
regoarrarr: up to you - offer stands
luddite: alright thanks\
anyway from what I can see right now, I'd say I have him severly outmatched
regoarrarr: yeah his power is pretty crappy
i mean it's close to OUR level :-)
do you have his graphs?
luddite: yes
unless he has units that haven't shown up on the power graph, and they're hidden in the fog, I'd say he has no chance
regoarrarr: cool
luddite: vultures make this a little different from anything i've done before, too
Sent at 10:05 on Wednesday
regoarrarr: how so?
luddite: well, you know they lose to axemen on open ground
but they're much better against mounted units
I guess they're sort of like a hybrid of axemen and spearmen
regoarrarr: better against mounted units just due to higher strength?
luddite: yeah
a vulture with no promos, in a forest, will have equal odds when defending against a chariot
regoarrarr: interesting
have you seen many units from him?
luddite: 2 axemen
and i know he has a chariot somewhere
my guess is 2 chariots, and he'll whip a spearmen next turn
that won't be enough to stop me
regoarrarr: cool
do you think you'll press the attack any further?
luddite: yeah
i think he really hates me right now
regoarrarr: why?
luddite: so i'll need to keep pressing the attack until he's not a threat anymore
i don't know- my diplomacy with him has just broken down
it's hard to talk to him because his english is really bad
regoarrarr: right
i have found that too
it's hrd to diplo
they were the first civ we found
so we did a lot of diplo with them
because there wasn't anyone else to talk to ;-)
luddite: also he said that ioan was handling their diplo for a while, but then mackoti took over
regoarrarr: hmm
luddite: so, i dunno how they're handling it now
regoarrarr: yeah i think oioan told me that his english is better than mackoti
we were talking to ioan mostly
luddite: basically i think mackoti misunderstoo the deal we had
regoarrarr: now you're changing the deal like darth vader
luddite: hahaha
well he was the one who broke our NAp
it's hard to live peacefully after that
regoarrarr: yeah
always some level of mistrust
luddite: i did offer him another deal~
"give me your eastern cities, and i won't raze any others"
but he didn't take it....
regoarrarr: oh so do they already know you're going to declare war?
luddite: heh... yeah i'm pretty sure they know
regoarrarr: oh ok
i was wondering why you were telling me this
i mean i wasn't going to say anything to them
but it still seemed kind of risky
luddite: yeah i'm not QUITE that trusting
regoarrarr: right
luddite: i've been pretty secretive until now
but, at this point it doesn't matter
i've got my army parked right outside their city culture
regoarrarr: nice
what do you got?
luddite: 6 vultures and 2 chariots
regoarrarr: nice
are you #1 in power?
luddite: most of them have promos too
yeah by a lot
regoarrarr: cool
luddite: mackoti has like 1/3 of my power
regoarrarr: we're #10
maybe #9
luddite: haha
regoarrarr: it's us and mackoti
we keep flipping
luddite: well i'm sure his will go up now
regoarrarr: sure
luddite: i'm surprised they didn't start building units earlier, though
i know they can see my graphs
regoarrarr: yeah
especially after the earlier war / conflict
i'd have thought that would have been a big key to start getting some defense out
luddite: yeah no kidding
i guess they thought they'd have a little more time to prepare
i started making units immediately after that

Recap:
* he is going for the colossus
* Lord Parkin is going for ToA (good to know potentially for our possible trade mission
* He is going to declare war on mackoti next turn

[regoarrarr]

Email from Moogle

Judging from the map, placing a city 2N of the Horse doesn't leave a lot of options for the city east of your Clam site. 1N of the Rice is about the best I can come up with on short notice. Other cities would probably go further east to claim the land there.. perhaps 1N of the Furs to block Adlain from advancing further, and another city somewhere to its northeast claiming the Fish and Gems resource.

Alternatives are 1E of the rice, but this would mean reshuffling the other cities. I'll try looking into that option later today, but it doesn't look too attractive at first glance. Apologies for the delay in this. My last couple of days have been crazy with changing work hours, and that always makes me feel exhausted for a few days. I'll have tons of time to pour over maps tomorrow though (and maybe a CK turnset). :-)

Anyway, Adlain is likely to be the biggest headache here. Mackoti and I are on fairly good terms, and I get the impression he's currently far more worried about Luddite than me. I'm hoping I can leverage that to block his expansion into the peninsula (okay, it's not really a peninsula) in between us. On the other hand, we are settling directly into land that Adlain will likely claim to be his, so it is much more likely to turn volatile. Fortunately for us though, Adlain seems to be falling behind and between the two he looks to be the softer target, so I am confident we will be able to counter him whatever he does.

I guess the question right now is how far you're willing to go with the united front. I am definitely open to a long-term alliance if the settling agreement keeps going like it is now, but military action (at least for the moment) is not the preferred route. Better to leave it as a defensive response, or to claim more land once peaceful settlement is no longer possible. Perhaps 'General' Sunrise will have some ideas here? It'll be an opportunity to steal some glory at least. :-)

-SleepingMoogle

I think we're heading towards a closer long-term relationship. Even though sunrise is still mad over the "overreaching yourselves" line

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Even though sunrise is still mad over the "overreaching yourselves" line

sunrise or evil fictitious sunrise?

[regoarrarr]

sunrise or evil fictitious sunrise?

What? there's a difference? He did actually say that though

[darrelljs]

He did actually say that though

Sadly, you lack proof.

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Sadly, you lack proof.

Darrell

Not proof since it could be forged but

(11:00:49 AM) sunrise089: his email was very grmpuy
(11:00:57 AM) sunrise089: but now he wants to buddy up
(11:01:20 AM) regoarrarr: mostly because his real name is <redacted>
(11:01:24 AM) regoarrarr: just sounds cool ;-)
(11:01:54 AM) regoarrarr: his last few emails have been pretty good
(11:03:16 AM) sunrise089: I'm miffed over the "overreaching yourselves" email still
(11:03:25 AM) sunrise089: feel free to use that to further you "mean sunrise" persona
(11:03:29 AM) regoarrarr: lol