[Spoilers] What's Sheaim to do? Irgy controlling Tebryn

[Irgy]

This turn began with a mystery:

Where's the spider gone? It must have eaten someone else. I wonder who? Turns out it's moved 1N, trying to hide under my tentative city marker.


I moved the zombies onto the forest hill, where they should hopefully kill it without me losing either of them. Doing so revealed a tile, and some very good news - reagents! I really need them for the late game, and now I don't need to go hunting in other people's territory for them. They're also a happiness resource with AV temples. Great news really.

And now, a long overdue review of what my cities are doing.

First, the capital Galveholm. It's just finished a pyre zombie, built mostly so that I could grow to 9 population. Now working on a settler. Originally I'd planned to send it to claim the rice-pigs-fish site, but it appears I have that one reserved so there's no rush. I might settle the closer site to the NE near the spider and the dyes. The workers are already over there chopping jungle anyway.

Grottiburg is primarily pumping out adepts. The granary in the queue I built while needing to grow a while back, I picked a building as they take longer for hammer decay to start than units. In hindsight, I should have built a workboat. I plan to send one to make contact with Mardoc some time soon - assuming he doesn't send something my way to save me the trouble.

Tongurstad is being harassed by barbarians, but no surprise there really. I killed one skeleton with no damage last turn. I planned to kill the other skeleton, but I'm going to wait another turn as there's a goblin here as well as a third skeleton behind the current one. They should both attack this turn, and after that the coast will be clear. That will let my worker get on with farming the floodplains, as well as let me get back to working the existing farm.

Graelingvig has struggled its way to 2 population next turn, and the gold will be improved just in time. That should hopefully improve my GNP a little. I'll have to wait until Sanitation to work the second gold though.

Steinvik is new, and just getting off the ground. I was building Elder Council, but because I have beaker but not gold multipliers in the capital I switched to the Market instead as it's more efficient.

On the whole I should probably really be building more workers and settlers, and less units and commerce buildings. I do plan on whipping a worker or settler out of Tongurstad some time soon though.

[Irgy]

Some conversation with Mr Yellow. It's my honest opinions in my reply so it speaks for itself I think. Long, but worth a read even if you're not that interested in diplo details.

WK would like to stay visually neutral, not showing Thoth that he is supporting me.
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]
Well that makes sense anyway. WK is rather reluctant to commit to anything when I talk to him about the subject, probably doesn't want me giving anything away to Thoth in the future. Thanks for spelling it out at least.[/COLOR]

Anyway since we're negotiating, i can follow up the open borders, map trade requests.So how does your map and copper loan for my quite certainly much bigger map sound like? I've covered almost all of the western and northern lands as well as a fair bit of the middle and eastern lands. Believe this should be a good deal.

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Look, I'll be completely honest with you, it's not a deal I'd normally agree to on its own merits. I am very interested in your map as you can probably tell, but at the end of the day it's primarily out of personal curiosity rather than any significant in-game benefit. I expect you need the copper a lot more than I need a map.

The fact is though the copper is something I want you to have anyway. If you didn't even have Cartography I'd just give it to you. All I really want in return is good will, but at the same time I also see trading maps as something which comes along with good will.

I don't really know why I'm bothering to say all this though, as it works out the same either way. You get copper, I get my map, it's pure profit really on both counts for both of us, and we're all happy. So it's a deal. I guess I just like to be clear about my thoughts.[/COLOR]

One more thing, if we go through with this i'd like to request the copper at a specific time, to suprise Thoth.

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Not a problem, just let me know when. Given the choice, I'd prefer it was before I made contact with Thoth (which will happen some time soon according to WK), as that way he hasn't told me not to do it before I go and do it anyway. I'll go through with it either way though don't worry about that.

I can tell you I take my reputation for honoring my word very seriously, but if you want to hold off on the map until I transfer the copper I'll understand.

Although, I was chatting to WarriorKnight about it, and we're not entirely sure whether trade routes will open up just from connecting through other players, if we don't have any visibility of each other. It's never been entirely clear to me either way, but I've had experiences where I needed to reveal terrain to connect trade routes. I was never sure it wasn't just the sailing/coastal thing, as they definately need to be revealed for that to work, but WarriorKnight seems to think it happened to him with a land route.

So we might need to trade maps to get trade routes connected regardless.

Or we might not. This isn't some effort to talk you into the map trade that we've now agreed to anyway, nor to talk down the value of it. Simply something to watch out for if trade routes aren't connected when it seems like they ought to be.

One final thing. I owe you an apology for the fate of your scout. When posting in my spoiler thread the other day, I noticed your scout was 2 tiles north of the tile I had marked "spider", where my own warrior died some time ago, and looked likely to move into range. I looked at the tracker however, and you'd already played the turn, so it was too late to warn you. I wish I'd thought of it earlier, and saved your scout (who as it turns out would be revealing land for both of us otherwise). If it's any consolation it hurt me too, as the bastard moved from grassland onto a forest-hill. I think I've managed to track it down though now.

Sorry for such a long rambling response, especially when "yes" would probably have done the job. Hope all is going well for you in the war!
[/COLOR]

[Acalostas]

Sorry for such a long rambling response, especially when "yes" would probably have done the job. Hope all is going well for you in the war!

Your long rambling posts are fun to read, so don't feel bad for them.


Edit: i mean emails.

[Irgy]

[COLOR="Cyan"]Map trade and open borders offer sent.

Also i didn't really care more about the scout, it's primary purpose was to discover you , so i had no real use of him anymore.
Lovely land around there though i must say.[/COLOR]

Sorry about the quality of my stitching. All I did was use the arrows to move around, yet the zoom and even in fact the angle is different in every shot. What the hey is going on with that?



All in all, it stretches east-west a lot more than I realised. It also seems like Thoth has a ton more land available than anyone else. Not sure why he needs to go taking Mr Yellow's, but it looks like it's going to be good for us, keeping them both busy.

I wonder whether there's a whole chunk of land in the fog just south of the Remnants of Patria? The tiny bit of land sticking out in the eastern end of Mardoc's land suggests there might be...

[Irgy]

So, if anyone was wondering who it would be that was the first to enter Letum Frigis:


A goblin slave! Recently captured too. Came out of the fort, wandered around annoying me for a while, and then walked into Tongurstad to volunteer for duty (after maybe a little coersion by my now level 4 pyre zombie). I sent him to Letum Frigis to build a road.

[Irgy]

Demographics from T100:


Yuck. A solid 5th place in everything. The Bannor are the victims of an aggressive war from the current leader and they're behind me, otherwise everyone else is doing better. I don't have any good excuses now, the gems are in, Graelingvig is working gold and silks, my cities have more to grow but are still at close to their target populations. I know I haven't played completely optimally on all fronts, nor made long involved micromanagement plans, or run test games, but I still basically thought I was doing ok. I seem to have as many cities as anyone else though, and my next settler is only 3 turns away. I'm a little busy researching my religion, but everyone else (except again the Bannor) has grabbed their own already. So not really sure what's going wrong. Maybe it's just the lack of economic traits and economic civ-specific benefits.

In any case, it's not the end of the world. WarriorKnight just today proposed himself to extend the NAP, so I'm safe from him and still have no borders with anyone else. Diplo is going well on the whole. With the copper trade to Mr Yellow, the only current war is likely to drag on. My traits will eventually lead to a powerful mage army, which can hopefully defeat an otherwise more powerful opponent. We'll see I guess.

I'd post my cities, but I did that just two turns ago and not much has changed, so I'll simply link here to that post.

As for plans, I'll first finish of Corruption of Spirit, then after that I've got a choice between two tech lines, which I haven't made yet:
1. Masonry -> Construction -> Sanitation
2. Writing -> Horseback Riding -> Trade -> Deception

Basically, (1) gives me Sanitation, which I think is actually what I need to pull me out of this demographics slump that I'm in. I don't need to pick up Construction on the way as I have the other prerequisite Bronzeworking, but I want it eventually for irrigation and doing it in this order gives me the pre-req bonus on the more expensive Sanitation, which pays back a lot of the costs of Construction. (2) gives me the Council of Esus, if I can get there fast enough. Getting (1) first is better, but if I miss CoE then I miss out on Nox Noctis and the shadow mana I wanted for the Tower of Necromancy. There's other benefits as well of course, Writing gives libraries which will help the tech rate, Trade gives more trade routes, Deception gives the undercouncil and CoE gives plenty of other benefits than just the shadow mana from Nox Noctis. But CoE is the thing that makes it something to hurry towards.

I'm tempted to just ask Nyktorion and WarriorKnight straight out whether they has any plans for it, but at the end of the day all that is likely to tell me is whether I should do (1) first because I'm never going to win the CoE race anyway, or I should do (1) first because I don't need to rush. If they are going for it, then it's unlikely they'll let me beat them to it by going for (2) first. On the whole then I think while writing this I've pretty much talked myself into doing (1) first either way.

After that it's:
Necromancy -> Alteration -> Sorcery -> Infernal Pact -> Arcane Lore (bulbed) -> Strength of will (from the Infernal Grimoire)

I haven't really worked out how many scientists I can have in time to bulb Arcane Lore, but hopefully it's at least two. I'll get one back if I'm the first to get to it, which hopefully I will be.

[Irgy]

I took this screenshot to try and plan out some city locations:


Some cities I'm a little more sure about:
1. Pig-Rice-Fish-Wine location marked with a "c" up the top.
2. A fish-clam-reagents city 1E of the marked location. The marker wouldn't pick up the fish
3. The "c?" partly covered by the interface down the bottom (SSW of "spider") is the only location which will pick up the other gems. It will be settled soon.

There's then space for either one or two filler cities with no resources (except of course mana). No resources isn't such a big deal once I have sanitation and agrigrarianism.

If I was to settle just one city ideally it would be... on the mountain peak 2W of the mana node The next best option for one city would be 1W again of that peak. This claims most of the tiles, however one tile which it's missing is the mana node. Unfortunately with that layout, the mana node is in the third ring of a filler city and at best the fourth ring of anything else. I won't be improving it until Sorcery, as I'm saving it for metamagic before I do anything else with it, but even so I fear it would not be under my control by the time I need it to be.

So, I'm going to go for two filler cities. One on the already marked location "c?" 2E of the silk, and the other 1W of the mana node. A whole lot of overlap, but what can you do. I can then settle the mana node one on the turn I get Sorcery (or thereabouts) and there's no rush to settle the other filler. I'll grab spots (1) and (2) above a lot sooner though.

[Lord Parkin]

2. A fish-clam-reagents city 1W of the marked location. The marker wouldn't pick up the fish

I presume you mean 1E?

The main thing I'm wondering is why you're planning on hurrying towards what I'd consider as "safe" land before expanding further north/west. Or is all the good land that way already taken?

Either way, I'd probably consider expanding north/west before even taking spot (2), unless it's likely to be taken by someone else if you leave it (WK?). Spot (1) is the only one I'd consider putting priority on, simply because it's so good. It'd also quite effectively secure all the other city spots behind it as yours, too.

[Irgy]

I presume you mean 1E?

Fixed.

The main thing I'm wondering is why you're planning on hurrying towards what I'd consider as "safe" land before expanding further north/west. Or is all the good land that way already taken?

Either way, I'd probably consider expanding north/west before even taking spot (2), unless it's likely to be taken by someone else if you leave it (WK?). Spot (1) is the only one I'd consider putting priority on, simply because it's so good. It'd also quite effectively secure all the other city spots behind it as yours, too.

I'm a little behind in writing up the diplo, but basically my entire land border with WK, which is in fact my entire land border, has essentially been agreed on. The only thing not completely settled on is whether I could try and claim another city north of (1). So there's no real rush either way at this stage, I'm not really concerned about blocking land and claiming controvertial sites so much as settling the better and more convenient sites first.

Where to look for new land once I've settled all this is another question

I should show a complete dotmap at some point to illustrate this.

[Irgy]

An overview of the diplomatic situation. Communication histories are yet to be filled in, I'll edit them in later. They're more for my own reference than anything else anyway. On the whole, I have a safe and agreed border with my single neighbour, and no real enemies yet - although Thoth may become annoyed about my loaning copper to Mr Yellow, once it happens. I have still yet to contact two of the other players.

WarriorKnight as Einion Logos of the Elohim
My main neighbour, and my entire land border, with a capital basically directly northwest of mine. On friendly terms, with an NAP that's rolled on another 30 turns every time it's close to ending with little argument from either of us. We've agreed our settling border in almost complete detail. We've had a few gmail chats, and generally tend to keep each other informed of what's going on. He can be a little reluctant to volunteer information about his plans, although if I ever ask him things directly he'd probably answer.

Founded and running The Order.

Current deals:

• NAP until T140 (was T80, then T110).
  
• Agreement to share the ice mana (what was I thinking... really... ?)
  
• Agreement for him to loan me 1 mana of a type I may request - within reason, he needs the appropriate tech to improve a mana node, although I may dispell it for him. Currently borrowing his Palace water mana.
  
• Various settling agreements which constitute our border. I'll post an image of this later on. To sum up though, in the west he's claimed a cows-dyes site west of Tongurstad, then I've claimed the clams-dyes site to the south of it, and he has the corn-mana site to the west of it. That basically completes our western border. To the north, he will settle a mana-dragonbones site just north of Graelingvig. To the northeast, I've claimed the fish-rice-pig-wines site, and while it hasn't been confirmed yet, I'm probably unlikely to get anything north of there.
  
• Agreement for open borders and a map trade as soon as they become available (possibly next turn).
  
• An ongoing gems for beer trade.
  

Communication History:

(TBD)

Nyktorion as Thessa of the Ljosalfar
Located far to the north. Quite friendly diplomatically so far. In the back of my mind I'd originally envisaged talking WarriorKnight into a joint attack on the elves. However their friendly nature, along with the fact that they're not as close as I imagined (in fact as far away as anyone else really), makes me more inclined to work alongside them.

Founded and running Fellowship of Leaves.

Current deals:

• We've negotiated general terms for how to go about mana trades.
  
• We have intention to trade my fire mana for his death mana.
  
• We have intention to trade resources once trade routes are available, but no specific suggestions.
  

Communication History:

(TBD)

Mr Yellow as Sabathiel of the Bannor
A little caught up in being attacked by the runaway Malakim, Mr Yellow has not had all that much to say other than requesting copper. He's holding out reasonably well, although he appears to have lost a city.

No religion.

Current deals:

• Open borders, and a map trade has been made.
  
• In exchange for the above, I have promised to loan him copper. The timing of this loan will be shortly after trade routes are available, but the specific turn will be by his request, as he wishes some element of surprise.
  

Communication History:

(TBD)

Thoth as Varn Gosam of the Malakim
No contact with this civ. He was sending a scout to make contact, but it was blocked by WarriorKnight's culture. He apparently prefered to just delete the scout rather than agree to open borders. Despite the civ being temporarily taken over by Sciz while Thoth was having technical difficulties, he appears to be a bit of a runaway at the moment, with the top score and general demographics values. He's currently fighting an aggressive war against the Bannor.

Founded and running Runes of Kilmorph.

No deals nor communication.


Mardoc as Hannah the Irin of the Lanun
No contact with this civ. The other southern civ, but located far to the west - we're effectively at the far opposite ends of the map as far as contact is concerned. I have an extremely unenviable position relative to him, being significantly closer by sea than by land. Made worse by the fact that this is not true of any other civ (except arguably WarriorKnight). The two of us are teamed up in FFHPBEM6, which means we'll likely have a bit of a rapore, but there's no reason why that has to extend to remaining at peace.

Founded and running Octopus Overlords

No deals nor communication.