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darrelljs · May 4th, 2011, 04:33

antisocialmunky Wrote:you got killed for overreaching before turn 100." :neenernee

Yeah, what a bunch of friggin' morons smile

.

Darrell

plako · May 4th, 2011, 11:38

T125

No screenshots this time. I just bombarded Corinth to 2% and this turn WK either flees or loses significant part of his army and possibly Corinth.

I had a chat with Lord Parkin. Apparently Rego had been talking with him about possibilites to slow our progress e.g. with cancelling NAP. It seems to me he has initiated the 3rd round of "stop plako" movement. I don't know what is he referring to with this 3rd round since I only know about Locke's effort, but apparently there has been also something else going on. Pretty clever from Rego. They're the good guys informng us about the threat, but they itself have initiated it lol

. He seems to like playing with fire.

I also got this from him:

Quote:How's it going? I figure at some point here we should finish up our conversation.

I'm sure you probably spent some time thinking about things - so did we. After thinking a bit, I am hoping that we are able to come to an arrangement that works for both of us. As I have stated before, it would be my preference that we work together vs. the other powers, rather than having to work on another team against you.

So as I was driving home from work last night after we chatted, I was feeling kind of bummed. I felt like we had been giving and giving up things, but hadn't received back anything from you, so I was even wondering if you even WANTED to be friends / allies with us? I know that you have said that you do, but for all I know, you're currently planning on marching that stack north once you're done with WK and trying to take us out too.

For example, as I mentioned yesterday, our initial plan before talking with you was that we would take Knossos and Mycenae. After discussing it with you, we were willing to cede those cities to you. I can understand if you don't feel like that is a big deal (that they were YOURS beforehand) but I hope you can understand that it was a big deal to us. After that we proposed that we have a front city 2N1W of the pigs but you didn't like that. We offered to throw in the cows city SW of Bob's Fork but you didn't like that. You made mention of a city near the cows north of Knossos but even that you said you didn't really like the border.

Do you understand why I'm feeling frustrated? It's doubly frustrated that I feel like you are taking lands that WK had already ceded to us. It's bad enough that you're taking the Greek cities we were planning on taking, but to even go further north into lands that we had already divided is even more! I do understand that Greece is ... uh... "under new management" ;-) but still!

So what do we do now? Is there a way that we can still work together, or are we going to have to go to an uneasy ceasefire where we both have to always watch our over shoulder?

Hope to hear from you soon

I'm getting tired of this. ASM suggested that we just accept the settling deal and then declare after WK has been handled. Main goal would be to get good border city north from the fork and then continue with peaceful builds. That doesn't sound too bad, but I'm also tired of warring and would like to start the builder game that is more natural to me. We would also need Machinery although I'd prefer Literature to build National and Heroic Epics and probably settle our GG to Heroic Epic city and start churning out double promoted CKNs a bit later. So we might need to make side step to Machinery after Literature or even before it. With building wealth we could probably get it in ~5T.

antisocialmunky

Well, I did not specify a timeframe for any potential 'Operation Shut Rego Up." My thought was to take about 10-20 turns off to consolidate. Basically tell Rego that we want the deal but we want to remove the cow city at a time of our choosing(later) because our economy is tanked and we require time to build up and the international trade routes from losing GLH would hurt us in the short run. Probably also want to secure a NAP for that period of time to make him feel at ease: "IE, we want to make sure the settling of Warlord's area carried out peacefully so take this 10 turn NAP." Maybe also combine that NAP with some scheming towards LP so we have a common ground. We then use our galleys to move most of our troops to the northern area, preferably hidden somewhere in a corner away from any of the traffic up there. We then get machinery, mass CKNs up, take the cow city, and take his choke city as well as wipe out any colonies he planted during the NAP.

Its not particularly nice but I rather hit Sunrise when he doesn't have tech parity and is in an expansion phase. We also have extra hammer in units which would be nice to turn into territory and GG points. Then... I suppose we can get back on track long term. I want to go Lit too and the war timer is annoying I know but I think it would be nice to kick him out of our backyard.

My only reservation would be long-term diplo fallout and a coalition of Nakor, Locke, and Sunrise since I don't suspect any of them like us too much and Rego will have a real cause of complaint towards us. It'll probably happen either way so while my plan is not without long term risk, they aren't too bad in the long run

I'm also going to add that LP's words cannot be trusted at this point. He may be telling the truth but his long term goal is to get us to fight Sunrise at a time of his choosing. Who knows, he probably has secret pacts with everyone. What is this, Civ5?

antisocialmunky · May 4th, 2011, 16:00

Some more international politics.

While I don't trust LP that much (he has his own gameplan and I don't know what it is), at least he more pleasant to talk to friendly.

Quote:Hi Plako and ASM,

Looks like Rego is indeed trying to initiate something bigger... no doubt that he's the main force behind this now, lol. I've copied an email sent by him a couple of hours ago to everyone except you and WK. Just remember, you didn't hear anything from us.

Seems like he's basically trying to rally everyone against you, mainly through the NAPs but possibly via other means he hasn't made clear yet. Of course, as your long-term secret ally we won't be standing for any of this. However, I'll see how far I can get with vague replies, and report any further information I can gather about his intentions. Just don't tip him off about what you know.

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Rego wrote:

Hi guys,

So over the past day or so, I've talked to some of you about what I called ... "the plako problem" :-)

WarriorKnight is going down hard as most of you know, which is going to leave plako with twice the land of everyone else. I've been trying to talk to him about it, but he doesn't appear to be willing to cede any of the lands, including open lands that were north of Greece and closer to us.

So the question is what, if anything, are we, as the community of other civs going to do about it? Like I said, I've chatted with a few of you, but the feeling that I've been getting is that nobody really wants to do anything right now.

I understand that things aren't always that simple - most of you are very far away and can't really send military - and I agree, military intervention at this point probably doesn't make sense. But I've heard reluctance to cancel NAPs, or not renew them, or close borders.

And that's fine if that's the consensus. Without really getting into specifics, I will say that we in Zululand are willing to do some things that plako probably wouldn't like, but we're not going to do it on our own.

So are there concrete suggestions that each of you would be willing to take? Or do we just punt it and say that we'll deal with plako later (gulp!)

regoarrarr
zulu

I also had a nice little chat. I gave up some information to further clarify the 'negotiations' that Rego are trying to pull. Hopefully I didn't give information - I just wanted to give him enough to try and influence his decision making later on with regards to us or Rego. I didn't really get any information out of him except that he wants us and Rego to distrust each other. Probably more defensively than anything real long term plan.

Like I said, all we learn is that:
-Luddite is stalemating... which we could have guessed
-LP does not want us to be friends with Rego (note all the references to Rego being an undesireable partner) which we could have also guessed.

I fed him the info about the border split to show:
-We don't like Rego either.
-Rego left some stuff out of his letter. lol

and hopefully get him to:
-be concerned.
-factor that into any of his long term plans with Rego in the future.

Ellimist · May 4th, 2011, 17:15

You guys do a good job of maintaining objectivity and not letting stuff bother you. It's impressive and well played.

plako · May 4th, 2011, 21:47

T126

Attacked Corinth and this time it didn't went well. Lost 6/7 cats all with more than 20% odds last ones did have more than 50% and overall more than fair share of battles were lost. Well you can't win every time. Lets see, if get a chance to finish the job next turn.

We also got another GG. Our power is now on par with Luddite.

Final result:

[Image: civ4screenshot1076.jpg]

antisocialmunky · May 4th, 2011, 22:53

Okay... you know, I've been thinking. This probably won't work if we attack him. I forget he is aggressive with cheap workers. Kicking him out of the penninsula will be hard even with 2x the power...

I think you are right plako, we should just go full builder mode. As for negotiations, give them what we cannot use. A NAP may be in order as well. I'm in favor of we can't plant north of Mycanae (seems like a natural border WK would have developed with them). On a side note, can we find the GLH city with our galley?

I want the option to Syrian it if we can with our +1 move ships. Heck, scout the whole shore. They must have plenty of vulnerable cities.

plako · May 4th, 2011, 22:55

btw. In the heat of the moment I accidentally also used stack attack frown

.

In the current light of things. Lord Parkin has gained quite a bit more creditability in my eyes and I think we should accept at least short extension to our NAP e.g. to T200. I think we could also give in to Rego. No matter what we decide to do after handling WK that area is by no means crucial to us.

antisocialmunky · May 4th, 2011, 22:58

I do not want to give into all of Rego's demands. As it stands, if we fight over that area later, the loser will be the aggressor so we might as well claim the areas we want and give them the areas we don't want rather than give them areas we might want later. I think no further north than Mycenae is fair for someone who did not help us with WK. We only lose 1 whole cow and lakes. As for Parkin, extend the NAP, we won't be fighting him any time soon. I think he's still not to be 100% trusted but I rather him than Rego or Nakor at this point.

plako · May 4th, 2011, 23:14

Alright I did send this to Rego. Cows to them pigs to us.

Quote:I've been thinking and I don't want to be unreasonable. City claiming cows e.g. positioned NW of it would be acceptable border city and if you want you could plant anothr city west of it in the narrow peninsula, that could work lake tile/tiles and possibly share cows depending on the positioning. I'm open for suggestions concerning exact positioning.

I would settle just 1 extra city in the area claimign pigs. You can suggest positioning of it.

Obviovusly we need to be prepared to handle Rego at some point.

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