Fall From Heaven VII Map Thread (Help Needed!)

[Ravus Sol]

Since noone dialed me up as a dedlurker I can probably spoil myself and leave some comments.

Thank the Gods! An Intelligent Reply from someone who knows more then me about this stuff

1) Hippus have flat out the best land in the game. That 4 silk, deer and crab site is an outright monster.

I thought they seemed overpowered but i wasn't sure how much nerfing needed doing. Current thoughts are to spread Desert right up to them. Maybe as close as the Incense. Delete lots of the Silks...

Not sure after that.

2) You are seriously underestimating hammer production in Balseraph land - cows, plains hills next to floodplains, sun mana to scorch grass hills. This will add up to a lot.

I forgot that plains can be scorched and deserts springed.

I think i'll just delete ALL the Features near by and place the Mirror of Heaven deep in the desert to the West that they will have a trickyer time getting inside their borders.

3) It sucks to be Elohim. No happy, no commerce, no rivers, not financial...

Too much Nerfing. Not enough Boosting back up. I'm thinking add in a River near the gold and add a Silk and/or Wine nearer the Capital.

4) Too many trees around elf start. I understand you want to help them start a bit, but this is over the top. And makes March godawfully powerful.

euuuuugh COMPLETLY forgot about the March worldspell as an aggressive ability. I'll clear some space, probably along the rivers as the forests block the river commerce anyway.

5) Either give everyone strategic resource, or leave everyone without. Current distribution makes no sense ( Balseraph have no defence against Hippus rush )

Yeah but should I thus give everyone Copper... or Copper and/or Horse? Iron counts as a military resource but games can be decided before it becomes useable from the looks of other games.

6) Everyone apart from elves will struggle for health on this map

So too few Health resources for each individual civilization? Or for the entire map... i thought their should be enough with trading or conquering going on... have I made a false assumption yet again?

7) Tower victory will be next to impossible given low amount of mana nodes.

Again I forgot to count these resources. For Tower Victory i guess everyone should have 2 semi-easy attainable nodes and misc others in the wilderness between nations?

8) Spread out mana giving uniques next to Balseraph. Keelyn is arguably the most powerful arcane leader in this game, she does not need to have 4 times as much mana at hand as everyone else together :P

Yeah spotted that one from the get go. I just hadn't gotten around to figuring out where to move them TOO. I guess i should have gone for a NO Unique Feature start and just added back in to avoid confusion.

9) Odio's Prison *cannot* start close to any capital, to much of a crutch for defending valuable cities.

Hmmmm where too move it too...

All above is after a short glance. I'll have a more detailed look later.

Thank you! Even that quick glance is worth it's weight in gold. I allready have a better idea on how to finish the editing. I'll wait a bit longer before trying to finalise the starting points at least.

I wanted to hurry the starting spots so the players could at least have pictures of that today

[Mist]

Thank the Gods! An Intelligent Reply from someone who knows more then me about this stuff

I thought they seemed overpowered but i wasn't sure how much nerfing needed doing. Current thoughts are to spread Desert right up to them. Maybe as close as the Incense. Delete lots of the Silks...

This is a general pointer for all the starts. Give everyone one early weak happy ( wine, cotton, marble, unique mana improvement ), one forested medium happy ( furs, ivory, dry gems, wet silk) and one jungled good happy ( gold, wet gems ).
Regarding health - make sure everyone has the same amount of different cereals ( +commerce on brewery ).

Don't count on trade. Huge map, not a lot of long rivers, no likely trade connections pre Sailing. And I can't see people going for sailing anytime fast.

Yeah but should I thus give everyone Copper... or Copper and/or Horse? Iron counts as a military resource but games can be decided before it becomes useable from the looks of other games.

Copper that's awkward to settle and horse that's in a decent place. HA's are a good and cheap fallback for people that urgently need a trier 3 unit for defence.

Again I forgot to count these resources. For Tower Victory i guess everyone should have 2 semi-easy attainable nodes and misc others in the wilderness between nations?

Two solid and one reacheable. That with metamagic and some trade should make tower possible.

Hmmmm where too move it too...

Odio's? Maybe next to the dragon?

[gingereagle1969]

Hmmm .... not sure if I'm qualified enough to comment, as I'm far less experienced in Fall from Heaven than Beyond the Sword,

PBEM18 is going far better than PBEM12, but then we are in the very early stages in the apprentice game ... mainly due to the erratic movement of the turn

but here goes, I'll take each in turn:


Nicolae: Tebrim of Sheaim! [as I'm playing against Nicolae in PBEM18, I'd better keep my comments neutral ... ish]:

If they use the Iron Maiden approach that I do, see my PBEM18 thread, they'll settle on the hill-top Wine [Shouldn't that be Grapes, Sid?!?] and net the dry Rice and the Pigs in the BFC! They could then hook-up the Gems and Mana-node when the culture pops for the 2nd time. Ooh, if you're going to leave it near them, how about surrounding the Letum Frigus with Ice, it'll look like it's affecting the nearby area and maybe deter them from using it.


Kyan & Twinkletoes: Keelyn of the Balseraphs!

Hill-top start = good; lack of decent food = bad. Having lurked PBEM4 and played against him in PBEM12, I'm confident that Kyan is quite capable of making good a bad job. However, you could tempt him by adding a wet Rice under the Barbarian spawn point, and slipping Copper and either Gold or Silver into the Forested/Jungled area to the south. That will entice him into the next Barbarian spawn point. Another way to tempt him into heading into that particular direction, instead of the Flood-Plains, is to place the Sepulcher down there as well.


Brian : Einion of Elohim!:

Again the Iron Maiden ploy is best to nab wet Corn and Crabs! But, naturally, I agree with Mist, a few Plantation resources would help this start.


Gaspar: Arendel of Ljosfalar!

The addition of Gold, or Silver, sounds good; maybe on the hill behind the Jungle south of the Iron. Apart from that, can't see much else missing here. Maybe that's because, as Mist points out, there's trees everywhere!!!


Acalostas & Mackoti: Cassiel of Grigori!:

I think they start a bit too close to the Balseraphs! Maybe move the start to the Hill south of the Bananas. That'll take them away from the wet Corn start ... and closer to the Horse ...lol!!


Rawkking: Rhoanna of Hippus!

Need to remove some of that Silk!! Pass that onto the starts that need happiness.


Think that'll do.

[Ravus Sol]

AGHHHHH

Face palm moment. sorry.

Just realised that because the map was originally created as a single player with the Sheaim on Monarch i may have given all the other nations a free Ancient Chants Tech...

Also, those DAMNED Goblin Forts have gained a Goblin Archer for everytime i've worldbuildered...

*sigh*

[Ravus Sol]

Hmmm .... not sure if I'm qualified enough to comment, as I'm far less experienced in Fall from Heaven than Beyond the Sword,

As someone has said, while the lore alters some of the playing pieces at the end of the day micromanagement wins everything. So anyone experienced enough to spot obvious flaws is welcomed whole heartily

Nicolae: Tebrim of Sheaim! [as I'm playing against Nicolae in PBEM18, I'd better keep my comments neutral ... ish]:

If they use the Iron Maiden approach that I do, see my PBEM18 thread, they'll settle on the hill-top Wine [Shouldn't that be Grapes, Sid?!?] and net the dry Rice and the Pigs in the BFC! They could then hook-up the Gems and Mana-node when the culture pops for the 2nd time. Ooh, if you're going to leave it near them, how about surrounding the Letum Frigus with Ice, it'll look like it's affecting the nearby area and maybe deter them from using it.

That does make them sounds quite powerful... I'm going to leave as it seeing as Nicolae will not be able to see the pigs or the rice from his starting point.

I was thinking to replace the Frigus with the Prye, for Lore and also because as an EPIC dungeon it is a threat if left unguarded. But putting Ice around the Frigus could also be an appropriate nerf.

After what you have said i think I shall leave them surrounded by Jungle. Impeding their natural expansion initially somewhat. They can still fit 3 or so cities before hitting jungle so they should be alright.

Kyan & Twinkletoes: Keelyn of the Balseraphs!

Hill-top start = good; lack of decent food = bad. Having lurked PBEM4 and played against him in PBEM12, I'm confident that Kyan is quite capable of making good a bad job. However, you could tempt him by adding a wet Rice under the Barbarian spawn point, and slipping Copper and either Gold or Silver into the Forested/Jungled area to the south. That will entice him into the next Barbarian spawn point. Another way to tempt him into heading into that particular direction, instead of the Flood-Plains, is to place the Sepulcher down there as well.

Hmmm the rice idea is a very good one. I think Gems to the south in jungle and Copper in the deep desert along with the Mirror of Heaven. Sepulcher in these guys hands could be overpowered...

Brian : Einion of Elohim!:

Again the Iron Maiden ploy is best to nab wet Corn and Crabs! But, naturally, I agree with Mist, a few Plantation resources would help this start.

I really need to learn more lingo. I'm just nodding along when you mention "the Iron Maiden ploy"

But yes i'm thinking Cotten very close by. Silk to the east and rivers for the land area to the west. Would that be enough?

Gaspar: Arendel of Ljosfalar!

The addition of Gold, or Silver, sounds good; maybe on the hill behind the Jungle south of the Iron. Apart from that, can't see much else missing here. Maybe that's because, as Mist points out, there's trees everywhere!!!

I forgot there is a neat improvement called "new forest" for FFH. I figure i can nerf some of the forests and turn some others into New baby forests to eventually grow bigger. That should nerf the forest bit slightly.

I'll move the Iron further south and replace it's original spot with Gold and spread the jungle north to further impede the Forest-Virus

I'm also thinking the Tomb Of Succelus is a good Feature, adds a bit more happy for close cities and a Life mana. Nothing game breaking.

Acalostas & Mackoti: Cassiel of Grigori!:

I think they start a bit too close to the Balseraphs! Maybe move the start to the Hill south of the Bananas. That'll take them away from the wet Corn start ... and closer to the Horse ...lol!!

Damn you make a good point about the close starts... And i've JUST gone and tried to balance it

No wait... i thought you were talking about the Hippus, they are closer to the Balseraphs then the Grigori...

They do have lots of expansion area so i could move them South-West a bit. I'll post what i edited and see what people say.

Rawkking: Rhoanna of Hippus!

Need to remove some of that Silk!! Pass that onto the starts that need happiness.

Silk Removed! Moved to the Elohim! Expanded the Desert and the Tundra slightly...

[Mist]

This also puts an extra Bridgit in place

Make sure to start the game without admin password. Admin password forces asset lock and asset lock breaks ffh pbems on latest patch.

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="5"]Sheaim[/SIZE]

Changes:
Replaced the Frigus with the Prye.
Moved the Lizard Spawning Ruins onto the Copper to make it more awkward to acquire.

Last Modifications:
None?

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="5"]Balseraphs[/SIZE]

Changes:
New Forested the Ivory
Mirror of Heaven now in deep East Desert
Copper in South Desert
Gems to the south below Goblin Fort

Final Modifications:
Add in a Blank Mana Node on a Flood Plain to limit useability?
Add in a Wet Rice below the Goblin Fort?

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="5"]Elohim[/SIZE]

Changes:
Cotton South of Start
Silk to the South-East
Rivers added to the West
Pool of Tears added (For Situational Happy)

Last Modifications:
None

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="5"]Elves[/SIZE]

Changes:
More Jungle in the South
Less Forest
Some New Forests
Copper now has Barrows on top to spawn Skeletons
Tomb of Sucellus close by (for situational Happy)
Gold In Jungle to the south

Last Modifications:
None