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RBPB4 [SPOILERS] - De Gaulle of the Egyptians

Do you mean the cities that I'm back-filling presently, or the cities that I've already got up and running? It's not quite clear to me whether you're talking about my past or future plans.

Very briefly, the general rules I used earlier on in the expansion phase were:

#1: Expand towards powerful economic resources first (e.g. Gold, Gems).
#2: Claim as many forward locations as possible to maximise land available for back-filling later (e.g. cities of Pardus and Leo, border agreements with Luddite/Plako/Rego).
#3: Back-fill the best locations first - almost always meaning highest food output first, along with grabbing strategic resources if they haven't already been claimed.
#4: Fill in the remaining sites roughly in the order of how good they are - mostly measured by food output, but also availability (e.g. Iron Working needed for jungle sites).

I think this is generally a pretty reliable game plan for solid expansion, as long as you play the diplomatic game to make sure that your neighbours won't be on your back too soon. You've also got to pace yourself, of course, so that you don't end up with an economy too far in the gutter to be recovered easily.

So in the future, I'll be settling all the back-fill city locations I've marked out roughly in order of food output. I'm also keeping in mind that the border locations - Fish city near Plako, Clam/Cow near Luddite, Fish/Copper on the island near Rego - need to be filled out sooner rather than later. That's mainly to secure my verbal claims in the area, so as to discourage any "bright ideas" about poaching that might surface if I leave them unsettled for too long. In fact, two of those three locations I'm settling this turn and next, so that should be all good.

As for city management at new cities, there's nothing particularly revolutionary there. The standard build queue is now Granary / Forge / Christian buildings / Courthouse / Lighthouse with a few exceptions and rearrangements in the order. Most of the new cities are whipped on a 4 -> 2 cycle until they get these critical buildings up and running. After that, they'll be mostly left to grow and blossom into new commercial centres.

Earlier on I wasn't whipping at all (in fact I only switched to Slavery just before 1 AD), and that was mostly because I felt it was necessary to maximise my economic potential at the time due to the vast amount of land on this map. Perhaps a dubious decision, but it worked out reasonably well in my opinion. Now that I have a number of strong economic centres established to support the steadily growing number of new cities, I can afford to make much more liberal use of the whip, especially in those new cities - so I'm doing so. wink

Hope that covers what you were asking for. Feel free to let me know if you want me to cover anything in more detail, or if I missed something that you were asking for. smile
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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By the way, we just had a Gold resource pop on a grassland river mine at Pantherinae... which is great! A free 7 commerce per turn is well worth trading in 1 hammer per turn for. smile

That brings the total to 4 Gold resources in our territory. Pretty sure that's the most of anyone. lol Not that it does us any good from a trade perspective, since every other nation has the same resource. Still, good for the economy.
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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LP, that's exactly what I had wanted to know. It is interesting about the settling direction and purpose.

One last question, is this approach specific for this game only or is that a pretty reliable approach in MP?
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It's a variation of my "preferred" approach which was tailored a bit for this particular game. It's by no means generally applicable to multiplayer though - rather, adaption is the key to doing well in any situation.

I'd say for slow games (Pitboss/PBEM) on maps with a decent amount of space (either large size or with few players), the approach I outlined is generally a good one - provided diplomacy is an option and your neighbours are reasonable. It also helps significantly to have fewer land-connected neighbours, since that way you have a clearer direction in which to expand and a clear backline. (In this game my relative isolation has proved a bit of a blessing in that regard.)

Other types of games require different approaches, though. For instance, when I played a series of 1 vs 1 games in a 32 player German Pitboss knockout tournament last year, ambitious expansion would have been a suicidal strategy. Instead, expanding conservatively while trying to make use of every possible little advantage to slowly put together an upper hand was the key there. Every single unit built and combat fought was also critical in that environment, so understanding exactly what to build and when to build it, as well as which battles to fight and when/where to engage was also crucial. I wouldn't have done as well as I did in the tournament without a decent knowledge of that stuff.

Free for all multiplayer with complete strangers is different again. If you're playing online against a couple of random folks on a pangaea map, diplomacy is completely thrown out the window and it's pretty much all about who can build the largest army the fastest and blitz everyone else. (It's also primarily about learning shortcuts, queueing as much as possible and maximising click speed. Not everyone's cup of tea.)

Basically, different types of games require you to adapt to different strategies to do well. You certainly wouldn't win every game with the highly aggressive expansion strategy I've employed here - indeed, as I've mentioned above, in some setups you'd be guaranteed to lose if you tried. However, in relatively peaceful games with generous amounts of land per player, I'd say aggressive expansion like I've employed here is usually a fairly sound strategy.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. smile
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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What's the average maintenance cost of a new city at this stage of the game? Have you hit the number of cities cap yet?

Darrell
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Thanks a lot; that is most helpful.

I have never tried a 1v1 and only dabbled in FFA.... got quickly ganged up on most times (and i feel that is closer to Age of Empires type play).

I would like to try a PitBoss game at some stage. Though based on the analysis and explanations I have read i feel that I am quite a long way from being able to offer anything interesting. Anyway, I guess I should just give it a try sometime.

Thanks again.
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1v1 is incredibly different to FFA-type games, whether on a blazing or a pitboss timer. FFA games, you need to consider anyone around you, don't stand out too much, and keep your cards close. 1v1 resembles starcraft, where you have a set enemy, and you therefore want to deal maximum economic damage for the minimum investment, and use that economic damage to gain time to power your own economy. I'm not great at either, and I usually don't follow my own advice tongue
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darrelljs Wrote:What's the average maintenance cost of a new city at this stage of the game? Have you hit the number of cities cap yet?

Darrell
I think the last city I founded cost something like 8 gpt. Fairly steep, but my economy can still take it and I'll recover pretty quickly. Two of the three most recent settlers were important to get out ASAP to secure verbal land claims, and the third is grabbing a Gem/triple Spice spot which is too good to pass up any longer (and will more than pay for itself once it gets up and running). I'll certainly be taking another "breather" in expansion after city #20, though, as I'm not too comfortable with dropping below 30% on the slider for too long. wink (We're slightly in the green at 30% with 19 cities right now, still netting over 150 beakers per turn.)
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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Gazzahk Wrote:Thanks a lot; that is most helpful.

I have never tried a 1v1 and only dabbled in FFA.... got quickly ganged up on most times (and i feel that is closer to Age of Empires type play).
Yeah, blitz FFA games really don't feel that much like civ. The game becomes more RTS than TBS, all about speed and intuition rather than careful calculation and insight. It's not my preferred method of play, although sometimes for amusement I'll give it a shot. It isn't actually particularly difficult for a veteran of the forums to do well, because the average skill level of the random player is usually not that high.

One on one games on the other hand are extremely tricky, especially in a tournament setting because you're guaranteed to be facing some truly tough opponents. I still vividly recall the semi-final and final matches in that tournament... they were certainly amongst the toughest civ games I ever played.

Gazzahk Wrote:I would like to try a PitBoss game at some stage. Though based on the analysis and explanations I have read i feel that I am quite a long way from being able to offer anything interesting. Anyway, I guess I should just give it a try sometime.
You should, it's really great fun. smile If you don't feel you're up to the level of players in this game, you can always arrange a game between players you feel are closer to your own skill level and build up your techniques. It takes quite a few years of play to figure out all of the little details and intricacies of the game - that's what makes Civ4 so great. Even now I still come across little things I didn't know about that can improve my game. Amazing (and brilliant) that there's that much depth in a six year old game.

Anyway, I'd highly recommend trying out a pitboss game at some point, as it really is great fun. Fair warning though: it may consume significant portions of your spare time (and not-so-spare time). tongue

Gazzahk Wrote:Thanks again.
No problem. smile
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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Thanks for all that again.

In this game, what is your main objective that will help you to win? I mean, are you bee-lining something or a series of somethings which will allow you to go and dominate? If so, what and approximately when?

Your use of NAP is most interesting.

Will you be taking out your opposition one by one, alone or with others or is it just too complex to have an exact plan and that taking an opportunity when it presents itself may probably be the key?

I am just trying to get to understand your 'behind the scenes' thinking on how you plan to win... You have commented that you are somewhat isolated, this presumably affects your planning.
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