[Spoilers] Peace and Purity - Einion Logos of the Elohim

[WarriorKnight]

OK, a billion things happening at once, let's go over everything to summarize:

Tower of Divination:

I get Spirit from my palace, Law from my shrine (which I'll have built T136 at the latest), Sun from Mardoc starting from T135 (for 10 turns, when that runs out I'll build a node) and I'll build a Mind node. That's all the Divination spheres so I'm able to start ToD by T136 at the latest. I'm guessing it'll take around 20 turns to complete, so it should finish shortly before my NAP runs out.



(ToD has same hammer cost as Winter Palace)

As for the free tech, well I've been planning to take Righteousness from the beginning and don't have a reason to change that yet, although Theology is another option (don't have any lvl6 Priests though). After it's complete, I should be able to complete Sphener shortly after the NAP runs out. Since he's a strength 16 hero with various Medic, Arcane and Divine abilities, I have a feeling he'll be very useful.

I also hope I can get some Paladins, but given that I need Iron and therefore Iron Working before I can build/upgrade them and therefore it's less clear if I'll have them by T160.

Corlindale:

I'm building Corlindale. He should be complete EoT135:



What spells will he get? Good question. Aside from the ones he starts with (Mind, Earth and Spirit 1) here's some I'm considering:

• Ice3 - Snowfall, extremely painful collateral spell, probably will be my only source of collateral in the war unless I get desperate and build some cats
  
• Nature3 - Vitalise, Gives him something decent to do while at peace, helps buff up food poor places (and gets grassland floodplains in Ballinasloe!) Also useful since Nature2 gives Poison Blades which is a recon unit buff, and since I plan to use rangers it will be a very nice buff.
  
• Water3 - Water Elementals: Considered only because they have water walking, and thus can counter Thoth Cultists. However, if I get build enough ships by T160, I won't need these since I would rather be using Snowfall then using archmage summons.
  

Both nyktorion and Mardoc have asked me about sharing our mana around for the free promotions (Life/Nature and Water respectively). While I don't plan to use Life promotions as I get them for free on Devouts (when I can bother researching them, still not sure when that'll be though...), I have agreed on a deal to get the other two mana, which allows me to get free Water and Nature one spells on Corlindale and any adepts I build in the next few turns.

Mana:

I have a lot of mana trades going on with everyone. Here's a summary:

Irgy:
From me: Enchantment, Death? (death is the mana i give him for free, but he hasn't put a time constraint on it.)
To me: Entropy, Ice

nyktorion:
From me: Water, Enchantment, Nature/Life?
To me: Body, Metamagic, Nature/Life?

Mardoc:
From me: Nature/Life, Water
To me: Sun, Water

Out of the mana I receive, Ice will be needed for Corlindale, Nature, Life and water will be for the free promotions (as I described above), Metamagic will be for Dispel Magic when I eventually get mages, Sun is for the ToD and the rest (Body, Enchantment, Entropy) are for their adept spells.

Ice could be useful as an adept spell too, but Mardoc says that Thoth's military goal is Iron chariots and I wouldn't be surprised to see Thoth turn Raiders on T146 so it won't be as effective. (although personally, I think he's aiming for Ratha's and we can expect to see Chalid before we start).

I'm slightly worried about my Nature mana, as all three of my 'allies' have requested my source at some unspecified time in the future. I'm hoping they won't be difficult and all request it at the same time.

Speaking of resource deals, the other 2 trades I have currently are Ale for Pearls with Mardoc, and a Corn for Gems with Irgy once I get my second Corn connected. I hope I can trade my excess sheep with Mardoc for something later on.

Army:

My main army currently consists of Valin, 2 monks and a Confessor. Very scary I know, but enough for now. They just popped a dungeon that's been siting in my borders for 100 turns (got a supplies, not bad. Probably make him build a temple somewhere). Next thing they'll do is capture another barb city, since the barbs have been kind enough to save me a settler:



Corlindale will probably join in taking the barb city. Only problem is that it only appeared a turn or two ago and so it'll take forever to grow to size 2.

I'll swap to Military State and Conquest in a few turns and that will surely help my military.

Tech path:

I just got currency for the trade route and Consumption. Current tech path is:

• Divination - Need to build Mind node for ToD and eventually a Sun node also
  
• Warfare - Military Strategy and Conquest civics, will revolt into both plus Consumption shortly after getting this
  
• Alteration - Need to build Enchantment node for Enchanted Blade and various trade agreements
  
• Optics - Privateers to counter cultists
  
• Animal Handing - Rangers
  

Other techs that could be backfilled when I get the time are:

• Archery - Lumbermills, although I don't expect to have many thanks to elven neighbours
  
• Drama - Culture stuff, but no free Bard anymore (Thoth probably burned it on a GA) so of questionable benefit
  
• Honor - Empyrean temples, although Thoth has the holy city and it's very low on the priority list
  
• WotForests - FoL temples, like Honor has a very low priority
  
• Necromancy - Need to build a Death node for Irgy at some point, doesn't help me directly though
  
• Military Strategy - Heroic Epic, not sure where to put it yet or when I'll even get to build it
  
• Poisons - Devouts, not important unless Irgy attacks, which I'll then need them to counter PZ's, plus it's rather expensive for a backfill tech
  

After that, I'd like to get IW and Animal Mastery. I may get sorcery at some point depending on when I get enough potential mages. Then it's probably a race for the late game techs.

Might as well post a Demographics screen while I'm here:



In global news, Thoth declared on Irgy and killed Rosier! Seems he fell victim to Tsunami. That massively sucks for him, and by extension us (although it does give Irgy a more personal reason to join the dogpile). Since it's unlikely that Irgy will be able to build Mardero or Abashi he'll probably only going to be able to supply mages. Just wish Irgy would've been more careful without a NAP.

[WarriorKnight]

Popped another one.



Shame copper isn't going to be useful for much longer, plus you only need one for the metal promo's. I'm not complaining though.

Mardoc has sent me his water mana and I've requested nyktorion's Nature mana, so I should be able to get a few adepts and Corlindale with both spells shortly.

[WarriorKnight]

Heh, I just realized Valin can't get March since mounted units can't get that naturally. Oh well, a couple of combat promotions were essential anyway. I'll just head up the Flanking line for now instead.

I'm debating if building ToD now is really worth it. On one hand, I'm spending 536 ToD + 25% (Military State plus Order temple) + 160 for Sphener = 830 total which could be used to instead build 10 monks or 8 rangers. On the other hand, if I don't build it now then I'm unsure when I'll get the time to since I'll probably be at war. Plus Sphener has 16 strength along with being a Medic 3 unit (45% per turn plus heal) and a High Order Priest (allows Unyielding Order, which could be very useful combined with my worldspell when capturing cities) for being a very useful unit, although probably not worth 10 monks (unless I needed a stack defender against a collateral spell, but if Thoth really does get Chalid or something similar then I don't know how to counter that aside from not to fight him at all).

Speaking of Sanctuary, I'm been wondering when I should cast it. Using it against Thoth would be very helpful, since if my units are in my border he can't touch them with anything but magic. The main reason why I probably won't though is that it affects everyone but me regardless of who I'm warring with, and casting it would mean that Irgy would be isolated and unable to provide meaningful support against Thoth. (also, if we win against Thoth without burning Sanctuary, well that would be awesome. If we don't win, well I might have to cast it to protect myself.)

The Elohim palace bonus War Weariness will probably be painful to deal with. I'm unsure how exactly to deal with that though, other than building the Infernal palace (which is probably a long shot anyway since it needs to spawn near enough to me that I can capture it and keep it safe from everyone). Maybe another palace would help? I don't think that I'll be able to build any soon enough anyway (except maybe the Malakim one, but they aren't much better at dealing with WW). Building the Tower of Eyes for the free Dungeon seems impractical (it's only a few hammers less than the ToD) and the Pillar of chains isn't on my current tech path. Perhaps I'll just have to resort to Dungeons if it gets too painful.

[Mist]

I'm debating if building ToD now is really worth it. On one hand, I'm spending 536 ToD + 25% (Military State plus Order temple) + 160 for Sphener = 830 total which could be used to instead build 10 monks or 8 rangers. On the other hand, if I don't build it now then I'm unsure when I'll get the time to since I'll probably be at war. Plus Sphener has 16 strength along with being a Medic 3 unit (45% per turn plus heal) and a High Order Priest (allows Unyielding Order, which could be very useful combined with my worldspell when capturing cities) for being a very useful unit, although probably not worth 10 monks (unless I needed a stack defender against a collateral spell, but if Thoth really does get Chalid or something similar then I don't know how to counter that aside from not to fight him at all).

I'd keep it for something really expensive like Arcane Lore or IW.

Speaking of Sanctuary, I'm been wondering when I should cast it.

Offensively after scoring a high value target like a Malakim core city? This would give you 20 turns to consolidate your hold on it.

The Elohim palace bonus War Weariness will probably be painful to deal with. I'm unsure how exactly to deal with that though, other than building the Infernal palace (which is probably a long shot anyway since it needs to spawn near enough to me that I can capture it and keep it safe from everyone).

Try to do most of the heavy fighting within your borders? But you're right, you might actually need Dungeons and a lot of gritting teeth.

[WarriorKnight]

I'd keep it for something really expensive like Arcane Lore or IW.

Ummm, Righteousness is around 7.5k beakers, while Arcane Lore is 3.5k and IW at 2.5k. Arcane Lore does practically nothing for me if I not first to it (as I'm sure whoever is first to it will make the Crown top priority) while I'm not planning on using Champs or Iron heavily (although I do need Iron for Paladins and it leads to Animal Mastery).

I am leaning towards saving the ToD though, primarily because if I get Heroic Epic in there then I can get almost double the military I estimated. As cool as Sphener and Paladins are, they aren't worth 15 Tier III units. Shame, the sun mana Mardoc is going to lend to me will be almost useless (oh wait, I can also build my own source for free Sun promo's, then at the mage upgrade I can promote to Blinding Light. Awesome! )

Offensively after scoring a high value target like a Malakim core city? This would give you 20 turns to consolidate your hold on it.

30 turns actually. Despite popular belief, Sanctuary does not scale depending on game speed. Otherwise imagine how long it would be on Marathon speed (if anyone played it).

Still, waiting to capture a Malakim core city suffers the problems as before, mainly that Irgy will be stuck between my lands and the Malakim and thus prone to counterattack when I cast it. If he has any useful units (he has mentioned that he would be able to provide Death 2 mages, invaluable if Thoth doesn't get Spirit mana, still useful if he does) then I'm not sure it'll be worth it.

[WarriorKnight]

Heh, Thoth has started scorching neutral tiles on our border. Fortunately, Ballinasloe my border city will expand it's borders in a few turns to claim all the remaining neutral tiles and there's plenty of time to spring those tiles back (or Vitalise them to prevent him scorching them back down). Still, my primary concern is that he's preparing for war 30 turns before we actually begin, I can only imagine how ready he'll be by then.

Corlindale and CoJ (Order Shrine) will be completed next turn, and I'll revolt to Consumption/Military State/Conquest the turn after.

BTW, it's occurred to me that maybe I should promote Valin up the Mobility line. Primarily because since my main army (rangers, monks, Priests) can't pillage, and the only other unit I'll have which can is adepts, who usually have much better things to be doing. I guess that's the main downside of my army, but since I don't have horses I don't have many other options. (unless I get some melee units with mobility, but champs are a long way off)

[Mist]

Well then. If you feel like you're heading into a meat grinder 30 turns from now, then here's a devils alternative for you -

Sign a quiet nonhostility deal with Toth. He goes after Mardoc, you go after Irgy. Beating Sheaim seems doable, Irgy is behind on tech, still dependent on PZs and other undead for the army mainstay, and conquering him would probably more than double your output. What's important, his land is good and rather secure, this conquest would not be challenged.

It would set you as this game topmost bastard, but it is a solid option that's less prone to accidents ( any dogpile is an accident to happen ).

[WarriorKnight]

Well then. If you feel like you're heading into a meat grinder 30 turns from now, then here's a devils alternative for you -

Sign a quiet nonhostility deal with Toth. He goes after Mardoc, you go after Irgy. Beating Sheaim seems doable, Irgy is behind on tech, still dependent on PZs and other undead for the army mainstay, and conquering him would probably more than double your output. What's important, his land is good and rather secure, this conquest would not be challenged.

It would set you as this game topmost bastard, but it is a solid option that's less prone to accidents ( any dogpile is an accident to happen ).

I did consider the possibility of invading Irgy briefly a while ago and decided to keep it as a backup plan in case the dogpile didn't work, since I doubt that I can compete with Thoth long term unless I get more land somehow. However, I'm starting to thing that the dogpile won't work out at all, despite everyone's best intentions for various reasons:

• Irgy is currently getting bombarded by Thoth Cultists
  
• We all have NAP's that expire over a 20 turn period
  
• An Adaptive switch into Raiders or some military trait could be painful
  
• A possibility of Thoth switching to Empyrean and then having to deal with Ratha's and Chalid
  
• It's possible for Thoth to get instant mages via Lightbringers which can upon upgrading summon Sand Lions which are nasty
  
• Thoth is busy preparing for war right now with several chariots already
  
• Finally I recently found out what the Citadel of Light does, let's just say it's not pretty
  

All those reasons combined with your last post made me think about what I was really getting from this dogpile. Of course, eliminating the top dog is all well and good but even with Sanctuary it's rather unlikely to happen and if it did I'm probably the next target thanks to my central position. On the other hand you gave plenty of reasons why invading Irgy is better overall (in fact you missed one, tolerating the Sheaim gives me much more than tolerating the Malakim), although it is a dastardly act and I'd probably have to burn Sanctuary anyway to keep nyktorion off my back.

Overall, I probably can't turn on the dogpile right now, simply because when trying to get Mardoc aboard I gave him several reasons why none of us would do such a thing, and I don't think I'm enough of a bastard to pull it off. I do realize though that it's silly to war against Thoth if I'm not getting anything out of it. I think what I might do is wait and see how well nyktorion defends against Thoth when his NAP expires on T150. If he doesn't do that well, I might request a NAP extension with Thoth (or failing that, burn Sanctuary) and go after Irgy.

(Maybe, if I go after Irgy and he realizes the trouble he's in, he'll summon and switch to Hyborem. That would be pretty good for me actually since if the Infernals spawns anywhere near me, Sanctuary will last long enough for me to finish off Irgy and I get several bonuses fighting and tolerating him.)

[WarriorKnight]

Finally got Corlindale. Plus I start with 6 free spells (3 from doubled mana, 3 Corlindale starts with naturally) although they are all 1st level spells. I'll likely promote straight to Vitalise, Inspiriting cities while waiting to level up, and then start near Warrenpoint, my border city with Irgy.

Order shrine saved me 16gpt, very nice. Law saved me 3 of that, but it'll become more useful later on. It also allows me to run another 2 priest specialists so Glens will pop another GP in around 5 turns. I'm secretly hoping for a GE from the shrine so I can rush a useful wonder (ToD, Pillar of Chains or Guild of Hammers would help a lot) but a Prophet or Sage is much more likely (dunno what I'd do with a Sage though, another Academy or a Golden Age?, Prophet will start the first Altar layer).

Thoth swapped back into Agrarianism but away from Arete so now while his food has jumped back up away from everyone I'm not too far away from his MFG.

[WarriorKnight]

Well, I couldn't switch into Conquest without my core cities starving so I skipped that and just went with Consumption and Military State. No free xp hurts but everyone except Thoth is in the same boat. Still, it saves me a nice amount of change and boosts my military production to 25%.

Thoth built the Mines of Gal-Dur, as expected. The question though is whether or not he'll stay in RoK or switch to Empyrean or something.