[SPOILERS] - Tredje and Mardoc are Sheelba of the Clan of Embers

[Gaspar]

I don't think its a harm if he misunderstands the terms - when you're ready, you tell him you're cancelling in 10T, and that's that. What's he going to do, cry in the tech thread? Who cares, clarifying at this point only betrays your intentions. Currently, he's just believing what he wants to believe, which is that he has a chance of not getting killed by you.

And as far as Loki - I adhere to a strict no Loki policy. He *is* the next target - why let him gather *any* information?

I might just be a bit of a paranoid jackass, however.

[Tredje]

Turn 96:

Still no sign of Sareln. That puzzles me a little. What does he have to gain by holding back? In any case we have had enough time to get our troops in position:

I will put enough hammers into Warriors in our three core cities so that they can be finished in one turn. That way if Sareln shows up we have 4 more Warriors. If he doesn't we can build infrastructure. If I can avoid it I would prefer to not build more Warriors. Our economy is suffering (but Sareln's is even worse, an indicator that he is producing nothing but units.)

I've been thinking about Loki, and I think I will ask Bob not to enter our borders. If we weren't planning to attack him I would use this opportunity to gather goodwill from a powerful neighbor, but what good is his goodwill if he is dead? That being said I think he will be able to spot our Sons from outside our borders anyway, so he will know there are at least three of them. If he accepts to not go through our borders he won't be able to access the west without striking a deal with Iskender, who I assume will be unwilling to allow Loki to spy inside his borders. So shoo Loki, shoo!

Maybe he's getting close to something that would genuinely thwart the Sons? Has he gotten Trade yet, that we could examine his tech?

Nope, no one has Trade yet.

And that is of course possible, but what could he possibly have in the immediate future that would stop 4 Sons? And would 10 extra turns really be an issue if he did? If he had an ace up his sleeve wouldn't it be better to don't sign a NAP and be able to strike at us while we deal with Sareln? I don't know Bob very well, but this appears to me to be a case of projecting his wishes. He wants peace with us, and when I offer something that looks like peace he accepts readily. He may even be confident since, like you stated, he managed to direct us elsewhere earlier (but to be fair that wasn't so much due to his clever diplomacy as it was to my aversion to a 2-front war.)

I don't think its a harm if he misunderstands the terms - when you're ready, you tell him you're cancelling in 10T, and that's that. What's he going to do, cry in the tech thread? Who cares, clarifying at this point only betrays your intentions. Currently, he's just believing what he wants to believe, which is that he has a chance of not getting killed by you.

&

You know, if Bob is interpreting the NAP as either party can unilaterally decide it continues, then that would explain why he wants it. Which occurs to me as another interpretation of your words.

Haha, isn't that the sign of a skilled diplomat? Wording your agreements so that if you break them you can never be held responsible? What I meant was that every 10 turns either side can terminate the NAP with a 10-turn cooldown period. That would mean that at T110 I can go up to Bob and say "NAP is ending on T120." It would probably be better to just have a 10-turn cooldown, where I could end the NAP on any turn, but as I phrased my proposal this way I am gpoing to adhere to it. Most likely I will end the NAP on T110 (i.e it ends on T120.) That will give us about 13 turns to deal with Sareln and get in position to hit Bob.

[Mardoc]

And that is of course possible, but what could he possibly have in the immediate future that would stop 4 Sons? And would 10 extra turns really be an issue if he did? If he had an ace up his sleeve wouldn't it be better to don't sign a NAP and be able to strike at us while we deal with Sareln? I don't know Bob very well, but this appears to me to be a case of projecting his wishes. He wants peace with us, and when I offer something that looks like peace he accepts readily. He may even be confident since, like you stated, he managed to direct us elsewhere earlier (but to be fair that wasn't so much due to his clever diplomacy as it was to my aversion to a 2-front war.)

Well, that's mostly why it makes my brain hurt, because I can't think of anything that would stop the Sons. But I'm fallible, too.

I think that is the advantage of the rolling nature of the NAP, though; it sounds like a lot more than it actually is. Granted, in a normal game where built armies dominated the battlefield, a 10 turn guaranteed warning is a significant boon.

[Krill]

I don't think its a harm if he misunderstands the terms - when you're ready, you tell him you're cancelling in 10T, and that's that.

Actually the way that's written would suggest that you'd be breaking the NAP if you just said it was getting cancelled in 10 turns...

[Tredje]

Turn 97:

Still no sign of the Amurite army. Will Sareln come at all?

Bob is moving Loki along our borders. As you can see the borders of Renegade Hill just expanded. My question to you is this: If Loki stops on the tile marked by a circle, will he be able to see our Sons that are stationed 2S1W of that spot? If he is able to I think I will move the stack 1SW in advance. Sareln might have spotted them already, but there is no need to give our opponents free information.

We signed OB with Iskender this turn. He will send a Hawk to our capital to do a recon mission over Balseraph lands. Yes, that will reveal most of our stuff to him, but it is a show of good faith. Besides, everyone will soon know that the Clan has 4 Sons (the 4th is disembarking next turn.) Our cities have reverted to building infrastructure for the moment, while we wait to see what Sareln decides to do.

[Mardoc]

Turn 97:

Still no sign of the Amurite army. Will Sareln come at all?

The only thing I can think of that would delay him is waiting for more warriors. I think I'd recommend you go ahead and finish off the partials, and start new ones. We only really have to pay for them for the next 10 turns or so.

Also, it occurs to me that he might take his goal as the Sons, not the cities, in which case having them stacked up with archers and warriors is perfect. But I'd recommend you fortify the mobile stack, since that doesn't cost anything.

@Loki - I'm afraid I don't know the visibility rules that well, but I don't *think* Loki can see us from there since neither he nor we would be on high ground.

@Galley - might it be worth sending the galley back to Acheron to pretend it's fetching yet another Son? Or to go exploring? Or would you rather keep it close for tactical options?

[Tredje]

Turn 98:

Still no sign of Sareln.

Where could he be? Perhaps he is busy preparing a warm welcome for our Sons?

Iskender flew his Hawk into Balseraph territory. This is what he saw:

The city is defended by two unpromoted bronze Warriors. While that information isn't astonishing in itself, we now know how far we can scout Bob's lands when our conflict begins. Having scouting information like that will be very useful so that we know where to position our stack. Also note that he has a cottage on the Ivory. No Hunting yet (meaning probably no Hawks to see Iskender's invisible Priests.)

@Galley - might it be worth sending the galley back to Acheron to pretend it's fetching yet another Son? Or to go exploring? Or would you rather keep it close for tactical options?

I don't think anyone is in position to scout as far south as Acheron's island so I decided to send the Galley exploring. To start with it will see if there is anything beyond the small island to the west of our colony.

@Loki - I'm afraid I don't know the visibility rules that well, but I don't *think* Loki can see us from there since neither he nor we would be on high ground.

That is what I thought as well. In any case Loki has disappeared from our borders and Iskender reports him to be 3 tiles north of the Copper source east of our capital.

Education will be done in 5 turns at the current tech rate. I should perhaps mention that I am considering delaying CoL until after BW. There are a couple of reasons for this. A) We don't have that many farms. B) We will then get access to Sugar and Dyes for +2 happy cap. C) I think everyone but us has BW, wich makes it quite cheap. D) We will get access to Copper within 20 turns, and having bronze weapons on our Warriors would be handy.

[Tredje]

After a short chat with Iskender I now know how Bob came to know about the length of our NAPs. It appears that Iskender told SL about the length of our NAP (btw, isn't the point of a CA precisely to stop people from divulging this kind of information? Or does a CA just cover plans, troop movement and so forth?) SL must then have told Bob. I understand that people are edgy about our Sons, but I feel that an agreement is an agreement.

[Tredje]

Turn 99 played.

With the risk of repeating myself: Still no sign of Sareln. I am starting to believe that he is going Helm's Deep on us. That might sound ominous, but this time around Gandalf (the Sons) has sided with the Orcs. I don't have much more to add. I continue to build infrastructure and wait for the AL to wear off.

[Mardoc]

Turn 99 played.

With the risk of repeating myself: Still no sign of Sareln. I am starting to believe that he is going Helm's Deep on us. That might sound ominous, but this time around Gandalf (the Sons) has sided with the Orcs. I don't have much more to add. I continue to build infrastructure and wait for the AL to wear off.

How's his Power rating looking? That might give a hint. Still, if he's left only what, 6 turns remaining on Arcane Lacuna - then maybe you're right, maybe he's staying home. Seems foolish to me, but I also think he was pretty much in a no-win situation, so it's trading one gamble for another.

One thing to note, when we resume the offensive - combining Haste with combat workers means even a Warrior stack has the ability to move 3 squares then attack. And he'll have better visibility than we will, from Magic Eyes. Admittedly, warriors might not be too good at attacking Archers and Sons after taking Collateral damage from 4 Elementals - but don't leave the Sons on their own.

On your earlier topics - I don't think you signed the CA with Iskender until after the NAP; I had been interpreting it as confidentiality with regards to all plans to hit Bob. I might be misremembering this, though.

I can see the argument for BW, especially if you're planning to plantation some Calendar resources and build some Cottages. It would make the homefront much more secure from any surprises, so as long as you're working on the commerce from some angle, I'm ok with delaying Aristocracy.