You speak in whispers of the devils I have slain, Brian, Sareln & Ichabod of Elohim

[Ichabod]

Man, those demos are crazy...

There's someone with 11 food at size 2 (rival best pop makes it impossible for someone to be at size 3)... It's not possible to get a worker + going to size 2 + farming a tile in so few turns... I'm guessing someone went worker first and got the population event.

What about the guy with 25k power? And the 37000 land points (it's early for second ring expansion)...

That's one crazy game, I tell you...

[Brian Shanahan]

Man, those demos are crazy...

There's someone with 11 food at size 2 (rival best pop makes it impossible for someone to be at size 3)... It's not possible to get a worker + going to size 2 + farming a tile in so few turns... I'm guessing someone went worker first and got the population event.

That'd probably do it. I'd say it's the Grigori on 11 food, they've been on a food heavy start.

What about the guy with 25k power? And the 37000 land points (it's early for second ring expansion)...

Balseraphs, the rival best jumped from c9k soldiers to 21k in the space of a turn. I'm guessing it's the mercenary event. I asked Kyan to see if I get confirmation. We've 3 cultural civs out there, and all three settled the initial turn.

That's one crazy game, I tell you...

Of course, we've got some FfH noobs, MP noobs (like me) and general craziness with the picks.

[Ichabod]

Could you post the graphs in the next update?

The belseraphs could have gotten the dwarf/lizardmen dungeon pop too. What's the mercenary event again?

[Brian Shanahan]

Could you post the graphs in the next update?

The belseraphs could have gotten the dwarf/lizardmen dungeon pop too. What's the mercenary event again?

There's an event where you can pay for a mercenary. I've gotten it a few times, but only popped it once. Most times I've been too far ahead for it to matter, but the one time I did, I needed an extra body in a city.

It's 2 of either race for the Dwarf/Lizardman event isn't it?

I'll give graphs in a minute. I save every (well nearly) turn before passing on.

[Brian Shanahan]

I was planning on making the graphs an every ten turns thing, but Ichabod asked so nicely. Time taken was in writing up the numbers:

I didn't bother with the culture numbers, I'm a steady 2 per turn since turn 2 giving me 24, Acalostas is 2 per since the start giving 28, and I'll guess Kyan somewhere in the 60s. I was wrong in thinking (but not saying) that Acalostas was the civ on 11 food, so at least it was worth my time doing these.

[Ichabod]

Well, quick calculation time:

The balseraphs had 5k power when they jumped way ahead to a 21k lead. A mercenary is 15k, a hunter is 8k, an axeman is 8k and a pop point is 1k.

So, either he got a mercenary event and a pop or he got the axeman/hunter dungeon result. Since I think he went worker first (he didn't get score points for pop growth until last turn), it makes me believe he had the hunter/axemen event. If he chose the hunters (and it seems he didn't lose them), he'll have a huge advantage against everybody...

[Brian Shanahan]

Thanks for that. Ah well not to worry, we'll just have to beat him up a bit when the time comes.

[Brian Shanahan]

Had a nice chat with Kyan, mostly just a bit of sca, but some interesting talks on a possible war with the Grigori, and a swap/loan of mana down the line. He has the mirror, so some Sun mana for me at the right time if I go Empy would be nice.

I gave him some info on Yggadrasil and the Remains, and also a small bit of info on how defensible the site I want is, though nothing about available resources.

He's also offered me a NAP to t110 which I'm happy to sign, and have drafted a treaty, and in addition he's willing to use a number of freaks (probably 2 or 3) as harrassment if I do go to war with the Grigori in this time-frame.

Also it's his 2 year anniversary so lurkers go and wish him well

Chat:

me: Finally got it sorted. Yay
peterofindia: ah hey man
i just created a yahoo one haha
10:17 PM me: Well whats up. And nice on the yahoo a/c. How do we save these chats. My lurkers are a nosy bunch. All correspondance will be confidential to players
peterofindia: for mine, it automaticlly saves it in a 'chats' folder
10:18 PM me: Ok I'll look for that. What do you want to talk about? I'm guessing that you have ideas about the game.
peterofindia: oh indeed
well, from what i understand, Grigori are west of me
and you're north of them?
me: That's true, not sure how west but, we're essentially hugging the coast both of us.
10:19 PM peterofindia: ok, well, me and the hippus are extremely close
10 tiles between capitals
10:20 PM i think ravus made a mistake with the map as there's a long mountain range between us which would take ages to go around. However, there is a tile gap on a diagonal that you can squeeze through
me: Somewhat similar. I was trying to get a spot to mine and Grigori west, willing to give concessions, but no answer in 3 days. I don't rate grigori as strong. Mountains are a pain. I've small land, but I seem to have mountain corridor into Grigori cap.
peterofindia: hmm, well, grigori are all about the end game i think
10:21 PM and if me and you have some distance between us
and a mutual neighbour
and oh, i have that silly power rating dont i? ...
10:22 PM me: Getting adventurers, slow and painful and not worth it for the nerfs. I alerted the Grigori to that power spike before meeting you, in case you hear from them.
peterofindia: bah. well, until i officialy meet
they dont necessarily know its me
or that my units arent too far
10:23 PM me: Ooh, a suprise attack maybe. AND Ichabod and I have narrowed it down to either a Merc or 2 Lizzie hunters.
10:24 PM peterofindia: haha i dont think the follow thru attack would be necessary
but
in exchange for a strong friendship
you said there is a specific site you wanted and they werent answering?
10:25 PM me: Yeah due west of me about 10 tiles, 5 NW of them, bad land brilliant defensive site.
peterofindia: you'd risk an extremely angry neighbour over bad land?
10:26 PM me: Maybe. There's a few resources there, and my backyard is tiny.
peterofindia: there was an awesome site between me and the hippus too
they threatened me with their world spell to claim it
as well as trying to force me into giving mana etc
me: Plus I've got this 30 turn fu to hit them with
10:27 PM peterofindia: i got the lizards event and managed to secure it for myself now
both lizards are two promo's up already
they're nutters
me: nice one for you, all I got so far was 50ish gold and an angry lizard. Well wear on them.
10:28 PM peterofindia: would you be interested in potential mana trades?
me: I would, give me a chance to see what you have.
peterofindia: various things i could offer in exchange, either mana wise or other
10:29 PM i start with Chaos, mind and air
i also have access to sun mana
10:30 PM me: Nature, spirit, water for me. ATM I've two health resources corn and crabs (crabs will take a while to hook up). Oh so that's where you are? I may be interested in sun especially, and water will be nice for you.
10:31 PM peterofindia: agreed on btoh fronts
maybe we can swap down the line?
ah, so you DID get to see where unique features are Bob wondered that
10:32 PM me: yeah down the line. KoTE is not a priority as of yet, but will be gotten. Yeah it's a nice feature if I were near say Yggadrasil, which by the way is in South, prob on island. Remains are in desert surrounded 3 sides by mnts.
10:33 PM finally found chat history
peterofindia: im at the mirror, how far away is ygg from that?
me: give me a minute, look at my maps
10:34 PM peterofindia: thank you
10:36 PM me: 1/3 of the map east of the mirror and slightly south of it. I'd say 30-40 tiles, but cant be certain.
peterofindia: right, great. thanks
10:37 PM in exchange for that, i give you my word, Loki wont ever screw with you
me: it's almost definitely on an island, Maelstrom is north of it slightly N of E to Mirror.
10:38 PM peterofindia: right, great. Thanks Brian
would you be interested in a NAP to begin foundations? I could certainly see potential for anti-grigori movements down the line
me: No bother. Good relations with at least one of the other players is a must. And I don't think this is costing us anything.
10:39 PM peterofindia: yep and i find in multiplayer games that having a friend that you're not going to argue for land with is a huge boost
10:40 PM me: Now this bit is confidential: I am seriously considering going after the Grigori as soon as I find some copper and get the weapons. While the civ is meh, Mackoti does slightly worry me, with his psychopathy (in-game) Acalostas already tried to threaten me with him.
peterofindia: ok, firstly, you have my word that i wont tell anyone that
10:41 PM i dont know if you've read any of my other games, but i have never done a single thing that could be constituted as dastardly or anything like that. never broken a NAP or done anything but support allies.
in pbem4, TT lost his entire army to Tatan and despite the fact our NAP had expired, i chose to move in all my forces and defend him rather than take all his cities from the unguarded backlines
me: good. It's not set in stone yet. If I cannot find some metal an early attack is called suicide. I've kept an eye on you a bit, but not much, too many games.
peterofindia: yeah, ive been in a few now heh
10:42 PM ill be honest, im not sure i'd be ready for an attack at that time, BUT, i wouldn't telll acaloastas and i could ensure the hippus dont jump on your backlines
10:43 PM me: Well the main reason why I'm willing to go with you (at least for now, I do plan on winning) is that we're friendly in emails. I'm not worried about the Hippus dogpile. The site I want has a mountain range to it's east and the only avenue of attack is from SE where I'll see from a mile off.
peterofindia: ok good
mate, we should all be playing to win, but it can be done without betraying
let's kill the world
and once the rest of the world is dead
10:44 PM we can kill each other
me: Yeah it's that good of a defensive site. And on winning we can just Hyborem and break the game with hell terrain.
peterofindia: haha
10:45 PM what kind of date would you want for a NAP? i dont know what you'll be comfortable with
me: As regards help on Grigori front. I just want annonymity if I do anything, and maybe an ear to bounce ideas off if needed.
peterofindia: definitely agreed on both fronts
10:46 PM me: Current NAP date would be nice at around the T100 mark, give us a chance to work Orthus over and a bit of time for development after.
peterofindia: i might be able to send some stuff to play with the backlines, but nothing significant
ok, sounds good.
10:47 PM me: Something fast maybe, just to harass and tie down forces. IF you did send I would be amenable to compensation.
Just beat Sunderland with Crawley 3-0 in FM2011, yay me!
10:48 PM peterofindia: well, i have thorn and zorn and i can see if i get any nice freaks
me: Freaks can be very nice. I reckon you should get 50/50 over the game. And the bad ones are very useful too, after Arenas.
peterofindia: haha
10:49 PM do you know me?
im a huge football fan
and a huge supporter of one particular club
just for that throwaway FM comment
you can add ten turns to the NAP if you want and a couple of extra freaks
10:50 PM me: No probably not, but I'm doing about three things right now and one of them is pre season. Deal on the NAP. I'll draft up a formal treaty. I'll only use freaks within the 110T NAP limit. If I don't go by then it'll be a monk+ war.
10:51 PM peterofindia: i support Newcastle United
me: Who do you support, I'm Man Utd scum and Celtic (it's more than just football)
peterofindia: and go crawley! haha
me: Oh so you're an anti-Mackem. I tend to go around the world a bit, but at the moment I'm playing two in England (this and the SG, with the real Wombles)
10:52 PM peterofindia: now you just gotta get them back to the prem!
10:53 PM me: We do, if we we can keep finding the top frees.
Am writing up nap.
peterofindia: TT has found his niche
ok mate, sounds good to me
me: Good.
peterofindia: probly gonna have to shoot off (my anniversary today)
10:54 PM me: which one? Congrats
peterofindia: its been great chatting with you man, i love thie FfH
wish it went faster
i blame nicolae
2 years
me: We need to get the Blitz going. Well it's between Nic and Rawkking, as we can't really suit both.
10:55 PM Married, and I'm still a bachelor.
peterofindia: whats the secret?
10:56 PM me: being so poor that I can't buy me drinks never mind a wan
peterofindia: haha
10:57 PM gonna have to shoot mate, but ill sign that NAP as soon as i can. you can effectively consider it signed unless you add loads of hidden clauses
chat soon mate
10:58 PM me: Ok I'm just trying to word something for the freaks. I'll be willing to pay support costs for them if you use them on my behalf, and compensation if theyre lost. Enjoy yourself
peterofindia: that sounds good
thanks haha
me: No problems

Hopefully that's readable.

Nap Draft:

Kyan,

I think something like this:

I hereby commit to a Non-Agression Pact with Kyan until turn 110 inclusive.

Secret Clause: In addition to this deal I will also have access to 2 (number can be changed in final terms) support Freaks in the event of war against the Grigori. In return for these units I will pay for the duration of said war, the support costs of these units, and in case of loss I will pay compensation for said loss, of an equal amount in gold of the hammer cost of said units.

Yours would be along the lines of
I hereby commit to a Non-Agression Pact with Brian until turn 110 inclusive.

Secret Clause:
In addition to this deal I am willing to furnish 2 (number can be changed in final terms) support Freaks in the event of war between the Elohim the Grigori. In return Brian will compensate me with, for the duration of said war, the support costs of these units, and in case of loss he will pay compensation for said loss, of an equal amount in gold of the hammer cost of said units.

Now I don't know if I'll have currency by then, so if I don't I'll be willing to offer a 1% per turn straight line inflation cost on any sum to be paid from the end of the NAP until payment, as a gesture of good will.

Brian

In the morning I'll send a short note to Acalostas saying that offer of compensation for the site is now void. If it comes to war, with the proper preparations I should be strong enough to win.

[Brian Shanahan]

Well turns out I didn't have to bother with the withdrawal:

They sent:

[COLOR="SandyBrown"]Dear Einion “Jack” Hackett

Upon reviewing your City founding request, we must respectfully decline (or at least I respectfully decline. Mackoti wanted to set you on fire…). Upon reviewing with our Scoutmaster, Benedict, He said “…while those dullards in the town can’t read a map, I sure can. That site is five tiles from our border, and considerably further from theirs. About 8-9 tiles…”

I’m sure that Benedict is exaggerating, after all, there’s no way you would try to cheat us. You know how… …unpleasant… …it could be to earn our ire.

Do not be alarmed, we will protect your Eastern border and slay any barbarian scum. It’s the least we can do for our…

…"friends".

We look forward to further peaceful negotiation in the future. Have a nice day!

-Acalostas

P.S: We have attached our previous missive in case you did not receive it[/COLOR].

I replied:

Not a problem, with the delay in getting back to me I was going to withdraw from negotiations anyway.

Short and not too friendly.

My reasoning for being so curt is two fold both leading to the same conclusion:
1) From the off Acalostas was willing to sic Mackoti on me. While it may be a genuine threat having the most warlike player in the forum on your team, I don't like bullying, and it's a long time since I've been bested by bullies.
2) The long delays in responding to my messages was frankly impolite. Granted the first message could have been a case of teething problems (I sent it a few ways to make sure myself) but all other communication has been very slow from their side (at least I am willing to send a note asking for time).

These two incidences tell me in large 10ft high neon blinking signs that they were more interested in trying to string me along than coming to a genuine negotiation over my request. Fine then, I can always build a settler and rush him off to the site myself. It is strong defensively and I've always got Sanctuary.

But this unfriendly behaviour coupled with Kyan's offer of last night have almost persuaded me that a nice little turn 90-100 rush may be in order. The only thing that would stop me was a severe lack of strategic resources.

[Brian Shanahan]

Ok the save is played.

Frankly I'm a bit fagged, so no poring over demographics today.

Moved my two warriors to get:

My warrior to the west will continue North, my Eastern one will continue South 1 tile before returning home. I believe this is the longest I've gone without being attacked by barbs

Demographics:

And finally plans:
Tech:
Myst>Calendar>Crafting>Mining>BW

Builds:
Capital:worker>Warrior>Settler>Elder Council>Warrior>Settler>probably warrior spam.

City 2 Monument>Worker>Elder Council>Warriors.

City 3 Monument>Elder Council>Worker>Warrior.

City sites:
City 2 The disputed site unless beaten to it, provisionally to be named Muff

City 3 placed on the corn silk sheep site I have also marked, provisionally to be named Termonfeckin.

That should bring me up to turn 100.