[SPOILER] Asoka of the Vikings (Nakor & Gaspar)

[Gaspar]

LP wants a map trade, said "what have you got?" :neenernee
BUT that means LP got Paper as well and will probably head towards Lib as well....

That brings me back to my earlier question: do we want Windmills or Mines?

What more can I say, we totally screwed with our neighbours!!!

Locke has Paper and Philo, LP has Paper but not Philo. Nobody else has either.

We're screwed with our neighbors because they outmaneuvered us. They're also unbelievably cutthroat, not a one of them has done anything that hasn't favored them all game. But we only have ourselves to blame for our situation. That's why I feel bad about Locke as a target, he's been the least douchey of the the three of them. We have time, however, to figure that part out.

Barracks in Riverland is fine, though I wouldn't go crazy with the troops. We're still NAP'ed to oblivion and anything we'll build will be obsolete by the time we go to war. luddite could snipe us, I suppose, but that'd be incredibly stupid.

Hired an artist in Crap, just cause.

We could use some health resources, several of our cities are at or near the health cap. SM could trade us Crab for Clams, which would be a small boost. We'll have Rice soon, which will increase it by 2, so that's probably sufficient in most cities. But since we've barely spoken to SM and we're far away from one another, wouldn't hurt to befriend him. Of course, that'll be harder since we've decided to dump a bunch of EP on him. :P

Re: GES's questions - the NAP with plako is official. rego's most recent message:

Hi Nakor,

Wanted to touch base with you about your earlier conversation, where you brought up potentially attacking plako in a bit. Things may have to be accelerated because I think plako may be trying to attack me sooner rather than later.

That is, if you are or were serious about things - I have to say I'm a bit nervous / worried that you continue to spend EPs on us, who supposedly are your ally, rather than plako, who is supposedly your target....

--

rego's just LP without the actual chance of winning this game. How are we, pray tell, supposedly rego's ally? What exactly has he done for us this game? Right. The diplo in this game is asinine. I haven't seen one player do a single thing to develop diplomatic relations, its all take, take, take. Man I really wish we could play the 1st 100 turns over. Tell you this much, WK would still be in the game, and LP wouldn't be quite so far ahead. :P

[Ellimist]

What exactly has he done for us this game? Right. The diplo in this game is asinine. I haven't seen one player do a single thing to develop diplomatic relations, its all take, take, take.

I noticed a lot of this as well. It's almost like a more widespread version of the Sullla diplomacy in PB2. Diplomacy is weird when every person is trying to min-max every deal and squeeze every drop of help out of everyone else without offering anything in return.
I have seen a few examples of "normal" relations this game, but they are a minority.

[WarriorKnight]

Man I really wish we could play the 1st 100 turns over. Tell you this much, WK would still be in the game, and LP wouldn't be quite so far ahead. :P

So do I. That way I could have my own start and not have to play on from someone's

Best of luck to you both, I will be lurking.

[Gaspar]

So do I. That way I could have my own start and not have to play on from someone's

Best of luck to you both, I will be lurking.

Thanks, WK. I have no doubt that had you been in place from minute one we'd have run into a very different game. Hell, since plako met you before us, the war machine might have well turned in our direction since you no doubt would have been a better diplomat.

As I'm sure you're aware, I was referring to the fact that plako belied to us early on he had issues with Greece, therefore we could have been a bit less gracious in terms of early agreements, forcing him to be a little less aggressive to his east flank if he hadn't had such a secure western flank. At a minimum, we could have worked out an arrangement that didn't block us from northern contiguous expansion had we been a bit more aggressive. Don't get me wrong, I understand why we played as we did, I think just how slow Spi/Org Vikings gets started caught both Nakor and I by surprise, and we felt a little neutered in the early diplo, since there's no way we could have warred with anyone given how poorly we were teching. Peace was what we needed, but we bartered away too much land to achieve it. I think our current tech rate, which is quite respectably in the ballpark of two teams who have significantly more land than we do is a testament to the fact that the leader choice has long-term merit on this map, but like I said, the cost of that slow start will haunt us all game.

The other part that bugs me is a couple of our city placements. Horseland is just a terrible city that will never grow beyond size 9 or so. The collective placements of Riverland and Beaverpass ensured we could never utilize that fish tile off the coast of Greenland, which is a major since Fish is one of the best resources in the game, and the placement of Crossing ensured we had waste another seafood tile, when slightly more careful placement would have allowed us a 3rd city on that landmass and probably would have led to an earlier discovery of the Paradise region, which we are currently sharing with Locke, but fits much more neatly into our borders than his.

None of this matters any longer, as what's done is done, and I think we've played pretty well for the last 50 turns or so, directing our research well and properly prioritizing tile improvements. There's no question that we've had some lousy luck as well, being caught between the consensus top three teams in the game. Though, one wonders, are they the top three because they took advantage of our poor start. Details, details.

[Gaspar]

Just realized I forgot to End Turn, so did so now.

[Krill]

I do have the map script that generated the starting landmass, so new games can be played on this type of map...

[Gaspar]

I do have the map script that generated the starting landmass, so new games can be played on this type of map...

Well, if we can just convince everyone else to call it and start over, I'm game.

[Krill]

You probably don't want that because I'd likely play.

Oh, wait:

I wish Krill or someone was in this game just so LP wouldn't be winning, I'd feel much better if plako won than him. :P

I stand corrected.

[Nakor]

Next turn then.

Luddite asks us to stop spending EP's in him, I tell him "sure, if you do the same!".

Then the builds:
Greenland finishes a Taoist Monastry. Going for a Settler, but you can veto for more missionarys.
Paradise finished the Granary, Couthouse next due to insane maintenance or do you want something else first? Forge? TP?
WB done in Pie, TP next. Borders popped this turn, so we can connect the seafood there!

Made most moves and met Plako. He told us that Locke is close to Education already. Damn! Looking at the tech screen we see that Locke already has Education, so Lib is a lost cause. Then again, better him then LP... then again... why not us? It gets more annoying every turn!

Let's get back to plan X and build a fleet with Zerks... and crush some cities...

[Nakor]

Back again!
Had a talk with Plako/ASM and I think we have a good plan.

T200, we hit LP!
We try to get Luddite, Rego and Locke to join the party.
We tech Astro - Chem for Navy. Frigates/Privateers/Galleons
We build Zerks for good amphibious upgraded Rifles

Plako goes for Rifling with CKN's.
We trade navy to the others and they fight with us. We get a good land deal from Plako.

Read the chat! Time for bed for me...