Adventure 9, T-hawk's Report

[T-hawk]

Now that the event has been properly closed by the sponsor, here's my report:

http://www.dos486.com/civ4/adv9/

Enjoy

[Sullla]

Glad to see that you didn't have a whole lot of trouble getting out of the hole in this game. Yes, tech trading is still alive and well in Civ4 (as you'll see in my report, once I get back to my house and have a chance to post it!) Figuring out the intricacies of how to manage when civs will trade you techs and when they won't is one of the subtleties of this game. But at least some AI civs will refuse to trade you techs eventually (especially if relations are bad) which is a far cry from Civ3!

You chose to ally with Hatty in your game, while I went the shared religion route and sided with Saladin. That had a number of interesting effects, not just the fact that I wasn't attacked by Sal in my game. Instead, Arabia went on to become the dominant economic AI (by virtue of sharing resources and trade routes with my civ) instead of falling into GNP hell. It was quite remarkable at how divergent that end of things went, even with a shared 1AD start.

Oh, and as far as the UN goes - if you can't vote yourself the winner, don't count on it. More on that in my report.

[T-hawk]

You chose to ally with Hatty in your game, while I went the shared religion route and sided with Saladin.

Perhaps this is answered in your report, but I really can't see any reason to pick Saladin over Hatty. Hatty had a long border with the player's civ which means significant logistical risk if she ever decides to invade; Saladin could be defended against at a single entrance point in the west. Also, Hatty came with a relations boost from Hereditary Rule civic (the player wouldn't be switching away for some time.) Finally, Qin was also Buddhist in my game, so adopting Buddhism created a nice three-way bloc. The only reason I can see to pick Saladin is if you couldn't get access to Hatty's state Buddhism.

[Atlas]

Perhaps this is answered in your report, but I really can't see any reason to pick Saladin over Hatty. Hatty had a long border with the player's civ which means significant logistical risk if she ever decides to invade; Saladin could be defended against at a single entrance point in the west. Also, Hatty came with a relations boost from Hereditary Rule civic (the player wouldn't be switching away for some time.) Finally, Qin was also Buddhist in my game, so adopting Buddhism created a nice three-way bloc. The only reason I can see to pick Saladin is if you couldn't get access to Hatty's state Buddhism.

I chose Hatty b/c her empire "fit" better with mine=reduced upkeep costs etc. than a long "snake" of an empire if I took out Sally. Hatty won't surprise attack you with cautious relations, but Sally will, thus I eliminated Hatty and befriended Sally and he was the economic competitior in my game too.

[T-hawk]

I chose Hatty b/c her empire "fit" better with mine=reduced upkeep costs etc.

Aha, that's the missing link. My mental model had a binary choice between befriending or spurning. Conquering was certainly an option too.

[Ronald]

Nice space ship victory.
I had a diplo victory about the same time. So you would not have been hundreds of years off . I had no other choice, Hatty was too far advanced.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

nice game and nice report! I didn't know that when capturing a city, that the displayed income reflects the income you'll have after taking it (instead of razing). Neat!

You mused about whether AI personality effects the WFYABTA cap. Indeed it does: Some leaders will decide very early that the world has fed you with enough techs, and with some, you can trade almost forever. Relations are another factor: Improving relations often allows you to squeeze in one more trade, and with friendly relations, I'm not sure if there's a WFYABTA cap at all. And last but not least, level of difficulty seems to play a role, too.

-Kylearan

[Iustus]

but I really can't see any reason to pick Saladin over Hatty.

Well, in my game, eventually, everyone was Jewish except Hatty. Even then, I made a mistake in picking Jewish before I could stand the sneak attack from Hatty.

Not to mention the fact that Saladin took the barbarian city in the east in many games (including mine), putting him on 3 sides of us. On the other hand, that makes him a good opponent, since you can get 2 easy cities which he cannot reinforce.

-Iustus

[T-hawk]

Well, in my game, eventually, everyone was Jewish except Hatty. Even then, I made a mistake in picking Jewish before I could stand the sneak attack from Hatty.

And that's exactly why I picked Hatty over Saladin to buddy up to. If Saladin had attacked that early, you'd have one point of invasion to fend him off (those two isolated cities weren't going to build any credible attacking force.) But sharing the long border with Hatty required you to spread out lots of defense everywhere and had plenty of places to pillage.

[Iustus]

Very good point.

I think the real solution was the one most people adopted. Stay no state religon as much as possible, only switching when demanded to, then switching back in 5 turns.

-Iustus