Turn 144:
We have the following event:
Kinda late for my liking, but 2 health is 2 health. Our cities have not exactly hit happiness cap yet, save 1. Decided to take it... and managed to grab the 2 health roll.
Quote:You're not going to win the game by building the same units as everyone else (i.e. OO units) in a smaller empire.
Stygians are 8 strength, but 1 movement. They can't be hasted, so it's at most 2 with the mobility promotion, which you won't have immediate access to without making a sarifice elsewhere in civics. I cannot stress enough how important mobility is in this game, especially as the game goes on and more spells are available.
I'd agree with Stygians being weaker in movement, and the importance of mobility... However...
Quote:So, I'd highly recommend Necromancy->Sorcery, delayed at most by the suggestion to research most but not all of Infernal Pact to mitigate the risk of Thoth grabbing it opportunistically. Getting the Grimoire is as much about denying it to the runaway as getting it yourself at this stage.
As far as Hemah goes, I think you're very unlikely to get him. The only situation you might is if the bulbed Arcane Lore -> Grimoired Strength of Will slingshot comes off. And then you've got archmages anyway. Taking Arcane Lore from the Grimoire is a fairly desperate move, given that you should have two Great Sages to bulb it with in time to do so.
Quote:Going down the arcane line is definitely the endgame strategy, no doubts about that. Though as I have mentioned earlier in my post, I believe the main concern now should be getting some form of defense by T170. If WK were to declare war on you, the game might just be over soon. Perhaps Heisenberg could check how far into the arcane line you could reach if you start teching from now till T170?
At our current tech rate, Necromancy + Sorcery is going to take us 15 turns. Arcane Lore alone, 20 turns. The second (first bulbing) Sage could arrive... in 24 turns. The 3rd... would take much longer.
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Suppose I did Necro + Sorcery in 15, and start on Arcane lore, I'd only be able to get it out by turn 170, using the sage to bulb half of it. And that is where our NAP with WK would end.
In this scenario, I would only have access to: 5-6 mages, a few ritualists, a handful of adepts and a few PZs.
Mages can summon str 5 spectres and ice elementals, and given my mana range, I could use slow, dance of blades, and fireball.
Spectres and Skeletons are nice to spam out, but do remember that WK has access to the ability to build/upgrade Life 2 casting Priests straight out from Devouts. (and he has poisons and priesthood already) All he needs are 3-4 of those, and our entire summoned stack of spectres and skeletons are toast.
That's going to leave me with... just some AoE stack damage from Ritualists and 5-6 summoned Ice elementals.
That, is -certainly- not going to put up much resistance... and I do have to provide WK with Ice mana from a previous agreement... and that gives him Snowfall with Corlindale already out.
This is the worst case scenario if I try to save the Grimoire for Strength of Will, and not get it.
We have 2 main competitors for the Grimoire: Thoth, and the Infernal player.
Thoth would be able to swap to AV AND start teching pact, finishing it in 1-2 turns. If I try to hold the Pact at 1 turn till I see him go AV, he is already 1 turn from completion--meaning he might even be the one who summons Hyborem out before me. Then it is a straight rush for the Grimoire... and I certainly do not see him losing in production to me.
If I summon the Infernals ASAP, I would have to hold on to completing the Grimoire till ~25 turn's time. By then, there is no guarantee that the Infernals do not take it themselves.
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Scenario 2:
Pact > Grimoire now. Using Grimoire to bulb Arcane Lore.
This path pretty much guarantees us the Grimoire, assuming Thoth would not start once he see's my Pact done. Even if he did, I would have had a 1-2 turn headstart.
This could be done in ~20 turns, for Pact > Necro > Sorcery.
This puts us at pretty much the same strength militarily as before, giving us an extra sage headstart into Strength of Will, and 10 turns of tech running into it.
Overall, this might be slower than a perfect Grimoire bulb of S.o.Will, but it has a much better chance of success.
Still, it leaves us vulnerable at t170.
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Scenario 3:
Swapping to OO.
We would take 5 turns to tech into Fanaticism.
Cities with the Temple of the Veil already up can produce ~5 ritualists in approxiamately 12 turns.
We tech OO, Necro > Sorcery after Fanaticism. This would be completed by t170.
After we produce a few ritualists, we can swap to OO, to produce Temples > Stygians/Cultists.
This gives us about 15 turns to work on those... and we should be able to churn some out before the NAP ends, together with the ability to keep producing more.
At Sorcery, we can also upgrade the same amount of mages as before.
Compared to the previous development paths, we are stronger militarily... not by much, but at least we are able to steadily produce strength 8 units.
The sage could go into bulbing Arcane Lore as planned, but at Arcane Lore, we would get access to Hemah.
However, we lose the ability to run S.t.Weak.
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I guess all 3 paths really depend on how the situation with the rest pans out. The others indicated an intention to dogpile Thoth, but have yet to provide any concrete affirmations. Whether WK's hands are tied by the situation would dictate how much time I would have to peacefully rush down the Arcane line.