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Well, I'll make 2 points.
- I said the north was fine and everyone disagreed, so I improved the north. Chalk that one up to me not trusting myself.
- WarlordDr was the reason Plako had to curtail development to the north for a bit and focus on beating the crap out of a player that wouldn't play the game properly. If a reasonable player had had that location, they could have both expanded north to take more land from LP/rego. The fact that one player screwed it up isn't the maps fault, that's the players. The best comparrison would be PBEM2, was it the maps fault that I got to build no military for 100 turns, or was it that Ruff declared war on Yaz and later on Yaz declared on Darrell giving me a free ride?
There is something to be said that rego also screwed up with his capital move, and Luddite signed a retarded border treaty.
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I would say WarlordDR unbalanced the map more than inherent unbalance.
Because of that, plako really had to war him, which meant he had to concede some things. Such a thing was, say, city spots that might have been contested with LP in that jungle.
In addition, luddite settled away from LP, or at least it seemed so to me.
So what happened was...
1. Favorable NAPs everywhere
2. Closest neighbor not settling all up in your business
3. Neighbor competing for contested lands in hot war
Perfect.
Also IIRC Gakor's team got an unfavorable settling thing from plako that meant they didn't do much to LP that they may have been able too, but IDK.
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scooter Wrote:I said WK's spot - not referring to WK himself. I'm talking posts like this:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....stcount=55 - original post with map overview
Then:
<lotsa quotes>
So yeah, take into account those comments plus the favorable resource distribution LP got, and I think there's a pretty strong argument to be made that Plako got the worst start and LP got the best, and we knew about it before the game started. That's why I'm not so quick to disagree with Gaspar in regards to his map comments...
Yeah I'd forgotten that I was part of that discussion. Still think we were right.
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
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Question: Would it be appropriate to ask the players "What do you think of how the map was balanced"?
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Ask them later. Like, after the game.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
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(And before GES turns up and shouts at me) the three players whose opinions we don't have that really matter are regos', Lockes and LPs', and asking the question to those three right now is a bit risky.
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Krill Wrote:(And before GES turns up and shouts at me) the three players whose opinions we don't have that really matter are regos', Lockes and LPs', and asking the question to those three right now is a bit risky.
Yeah, those questions are definitely best saved for the post-game.
Things have been super quiet for admin'ing since the Rego/WK/worker controversy. I have a feeling between Mackoti's build-up and the Parkin Violation, it might not stay that way. Hopefully I am wrong.
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What is mackoti doing anyway? He doesn't have iron himself and luddite says he doesn't have it at all. Is luddite missing an iron trade, or is he building like, a bunch of catapults and longbows?
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Krill Wrote:Well, I'll make 2 points.
- I said the north was fine and everyone disagreed, so I improved the north. Chalk that one up to me not trusting myself.
- WarlordDr was the reason Plako had to curtail development to the north for a bit and focus on beating the crap out of a player that wouldn't play the game properly. If a reasonable player had had that location, they could have both expanded north to take more land from LP/rego. The fact that one player screwed it up isn't the maps fault, that's the players. The best comparrison would be PBEM2, was it the maps fault that I got to build no military for 100 turns, or was it that Ruff declared war on Yaz and later on Yaz declared on Darrell giving me a free ride?
There is something to be said that rego also screwed up with his capital move, and Luddite signed a retarded border treaty.
FWIW, I'm not arguing that things were really imbalanced. For huge sized map with this many players, it's nearly impossible to get perfect balance. I think that this map was 80-90% successful at achieving balance and 100% successful at being a cool design. So I'd rate the map as a success. I just do think there are some issues that have contributed to where we are at, although I agree with you that other players have contributed more than the map itself.
Honestly, this game really was the perfect storm for Lord Parkin to run away with things. Literally everything went perfectly. That's NOT to take anything away from what he's done - he's created a lot of his own fortune (I credit the Luddite thing to LP - that's his doing, good for him) and he's played his situation very well. He just had a ton of nice breaks that's made his position even more dominant.
The one thing I'm not sure I agree with is your comment on WarlordDr and his impact on the game. Remember, after WK took over and they signed the peace treaty, Plako was WAY ahead of everyone, LP included. Warlord's insane play actually helped Plako in my opinion. Plako got such a boost as a result of that free city that I just can't see how that actually hurt him.
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