[Spoilers] Commodore as Darius of the HRE

[Ceiliazul]

Yeah 2gpt? Small Prince? Gotta be torroidal.

Demo analysis:

Rana is doing very well. they have built 'henge, and are your co-leaders in pop. Rana is in slavery and cracked the whip (but immediately regrew) last turn.

MNG's build order was identical to yours except building an extra warrior before the settler. He has placed his 2nd settler, and recently 2-pop whipped his capital (I assume for the 3rd.)

The good news:
You picked the right religion and the right time to chase it.
You founded Hindu, and I think it was a close race. Specifically Gold Ergo Sum has a research pattern that suggests he was right behind you. Buddha was FIDL'd in turn 25, I suspect by Yuri or Rana. I think Yuri but can't prove it. If that's true, then everyone has a border pop method except Ergo. Good for you, bummer for him. That may be an ongoing impact on this game.

[Ceiliazul]

If you intend to build granary-> settler... you should postpone the granary. Granaries do not store food when building workers and settlers, nor speed production.

I'll let you know if MNG builds anything stronger than a warrior. By the way, France is no longer the strongest military rival after his recent whip.

[Ceiliazul]

I'll be impressed if they pull the Oracle from Yuri, though.

How do you know Yuri is building the oracle?

[Commodore]

I suspect Yuri will want Oracle based on two things:
-At the beginning of the game he was talking about getting Ind forges online ASAP.
-If it's a repeating pattern of resources, Marble will show up on his blob.

Thank you for the C&D here. It's good to see that I'm not entirely behind at the moment, although the lack of BW still kind of hurts.

Chatted briefly with MNG last night, we poked back and forth about map knowledge, etc. He seems rather competent (diplomatically), and smartly has writing now as off Turn 30. His scouting warrior is returning down through our land, and I told him I'd Open Borders to let him through provided he sticks to the north coast. With horses now online I'll be switching quickly to making a chariot to impress his scout as he trundles by.

Hrm. Or maybe I'll leave Ophir open just to tempt him...

More exploration +dotmapping to come later today, but for now, the helpfully provided casus belli land in the center:



Interestingly, I believe only MNG and I have thus far discovered how rich this cold little blob is. I wanna pink dot this so badly.

[Ceiliazul]

-If it's a repeating pattern of resources, Marble will show up on his blob.

He could be building the oracle, but the "repeating resources" doesn't work with 5 opponents.

I told him I'd Open Borders to let him through provided he sticks to the north coast.

I'm sure you'll secure an NAP before that happens, right?

Interestingly, I believe only MNG and I have thus far discovered how rich this cold little blob is. I wanna pink dot this so badly.

Resist the urge. Especially with the high maint costs, that won't pay off.

[Commodore]

Resist the urge. Especially with the high maint costs, that won't pay off.

Hah, no worries, I'm not about to reach for that. I was thinking more along the lines of "city #10" than anything soon. That's definitely a post-Rathus area up there. I'll play decently aggressive with MNG for the area if he wants to dance...which I doubt. I can slam out a chariot before his warrior could be a threat traversing my border, which is why I'm going to go for the "test of character/aggressiveness". Money is, he sees Ophir unguarded, mentally notes to watch C&D, and continues on. If he gets frisky I'll kick him in the teeth and then give a white peace for goodwill.

On the other hand, RL7 (Ranamar) will be my main worry, kid gloves there. If anyone can keep up as a non-Fin in a NTT it's Bismark. Stonehenge and Exp make for a happy REXer, and although I'd love for the Toroidal maintenance to knock him back I somehow doubt that team has missed the expenses. I hope and pray their second city isn't coastal, or we can kiss the GLH goodbye.

Which segues nicely to today's little exercise, Adventures in Dotmapping [SIZE="1"](Gaspar patent pending)[/SIZE]. First up, I liked your northward shifts in the sim, but we have cheap courthouses and cheap lighthouses...why waste financial coasts?



Packin' the little suckers in and learning to love 2/0/3 yields! Similarly, to the west:



Red crosses are the only tiles on the whole Hyborian landmass that get missed. Here's my thoughts on the three options for the next city, in descending order of preference.

Blue Dot is a strong plainshill plant that will share a couple riverside cottages with Ophir, has dry grassland wheat in the first ring for a quick start up, lots of forests for chops, and an Oasis tile once the first border pop comes. 'phants and hills make for decent production even once the trees are all gone and this would be a very secure GLH site, hell to boat into.

Yellow Dot doesn't even need a border pop to make an incredibly food-rich start at things (as the third ring pop for holy city Ophir will snag the fish). Dessert hills aren't great for production but they'll do in a pinch, and there are at least enough forests to get the city up and running in good time. I'd only consider moving it 1E if the plains currently dotted show copper when BW comes in, the hill defense isn't worth losing riverside cottage sites and sugar. This position is more exposed to MNG, both via land and sea, but it seals off the bridge nicely and at least the landward approach is flat. GLH would make me nervous here, though, as it'd be a dang juicy target.

Red Dot got me winced at by Sven, and I see why, being decidedly forest-poor. One quick question, can I "assign" the capital's two forests to Red if I want chops of them to roll into it? In any case, it's a fairly food-rich start made awesome once the first border pops. Again, sharable cottage lands for quickly growing those suckers appeals to me, and the coasts seem fairly secure pre-astronomy. One nice point in its favor over Blue or Yellow is its proximity to the capital, saving on the early maintenance.

Overall, copper at any of these sites would probably sway me towards one or the other. The Great Lighthouse would be an incredible build to snag, although if we want it my bet would be we'd need to push for it ASAP, which may or may not include beelining OR if it could be done for more efficient chops/whips. Any C&D juju indicating someone has already gone fishing/sailing?

[Ceiliazul]

RL7 (Ranamar) will be my main worry, kid gloves there. . . I hope and pray their second city isn't coastal, or we can kiss the GLH goodbye.

According to my demo work, Rana's 2nd city claimed 5 tiles. It's either coastal or has a lake. I'd bet my hat it's coastal. Honesty though, you chasing these IND civs for the Lighthouse would be like France burning chops on stonehenge. (He doesn't need I, he's creative.)

You are the best possible civ for dealing with these high maint costs... let them race for wonders while and you just grow.

-ceil

[Commodore]

According to my demo work, Rana's 2nd city claimed 5 tiles. It's either coastal or has a lake. I'd bet my hat it's coastal. Honesty though, you chasing these IND civs for the Lighthouse would be like France burning chops on stonehenge. (He doesn't need I, he's creative.)

You are the best possible civ for dealing with these high maint costs... let them race for wonders while and you just grow.

-ceil

That's...rather freeing. I'll be wanting to try for some of the later wonders with marble, I reckon, but if they did go coastal, then GLH is theirs. Otherwise, of course, you owe me a hat. Not to say I won't threaten with it in diplo, naturally, as cheap lighthouses and the possibility of stone means they don't know I'm not pushing for it.

[Ceiliazul]

In general, you're right about team Rana. From my work yesterday I think they have played the strongest game so far with MNG in second. It's still early, so things can change in a heartbeat...

It does make me nervous to hear you [encouraging, allowing, tempting] aggression between you and MNG. Now is not the time to be "tempting" anyone. You need to focus on catching up first.

[Ceiliazul]

That's...rather freeing. I'll be wanting to try for some of the later wonders with marble, I reckon, but if they did go coastal, then GLH is theirs. Otherwise, of course, you owe me a hat. Not to say I won't threaten with it in diplo, naturally, as cheap lighthouses and the possibility of stone means they don't know I'm not pushing for it.

Great Lighthouse doesn't have any doubling resources, so stone doesn't matter.

Later Marble wonders make a lot more sense. IMO, failgold is only worth it if you have a doubler.