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I am not sure (and dont feel like wading through parkins thread to find out) but did he promise Plako ivory specifically or just a happiness resource?
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bato Wrote:I am not sure (and dont feel like wading through parkins thread to find out) but did he promise Plako ivory specifically or just a happiness resource?
He promised Ivory or gems, gave gems (his only source) because he had plenty of happiness and didn't want to help with wonder building.
Bobchillingworth
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Serdoa Wrote:Well, I think most players do try to find ways around agreements they don't want any longer and I am pretty sure that all of them still tell stuff like "I stick always to my agreements". I advise reading PBEM17 for some insight into hypocrisy...
Oh, and I think if LP wins he has fully deserved it. It is his diplomacy which made him practically immune to war for nearly 200 turns and it is his skill in building up an empire which does get him to the point he is now. It is not undeserved, he simply played a better overall game then others who might outshine him in parts of the game but who could not put it all together in the way he did.
I agree with all of this. I think it comes across as rather petty for some of the other players to sublimate their anger over their own incompetence onto LP, insinuating that he has been doing something vaguely unethical when, as far as I can tell, he has been consistently honest and has reached his commanding position purely through virtue of excellent play.
Brian Shanahan Wrote:Yeah it's this kind of hypocracy which really makes my jaw ache, and frankly makes me wonder why people start complaining when it's voiced that LP might not be the best winner of this game.
Thankfully the Civ IV engine lacks an omniscient morality gauge and instead awards victories based on ability  
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Bobchillingworth Wrote:I agree with all of this. I think it comes across as rather petty for some of the other players to sublimate their anger over their own incompetence onto LP, insinuating that he has been doing something vaguely unethical when, as far as I can tell, he has been consistently honest and has reached his commanding position purely through virtue of excellent play.
Thankfully the Civ IV engine lacks an omniscient morality gauge and instead awards victories based on ability
I agree to most of this, and I will be rooting for LP to win the game.
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Bremen Wrote:He promised Ivory or gems, gave gems (his only source) because he had plenty of happiness and didn't want to help with wonder building.
As long as he agreed to it being ivory or gems, trading him Gems because he didn't want to help him with wonder building isn't being bad. It's strategy.
After all, without WEs, Ivory and Gems are basically the same.
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Its so good to see some support for LP's game-play. I didn't previously recall all that gems and ivory business until this recent clarification. So, thanks for that.
Now they are discussing an AP victory ONLY as a way of denying LP his victory. I can understand that for some it must be frustrating as hell to be in a game which they can not win; but isn't an outright denial of victory (dov) strategy against the principles of fair play in this community or some other aspect of the rules?
It is surely possible for others to have plans to win? Plako is only 200 points behind LP which is very close and if Adlain's cities are colonized and worked then a couple of other players are in the running for a win - cultural, space ship possibly.
Either way,it is still interesting and LP's reaction to the T180 embargo will be most fascinating to see unfold...
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Gazzahk Wrote:Its so good to see some support for LP's game-play. I didn't previously recall all that gems and ivory business until this recent clarification. So, thanks for that.
Now they are discussing an AP victory ONLY as a way of denying LP his victory. I can understand that for some it must be frustrating as hell to be in a game which they can not win; but isn't an outright denial of victory (dov) strategy against the principles of fair play in this community or some other aspect of the rules?
It is surely possible for others to have plans to win? Plako is only 200 points behind LP which is very close and if Adlain's cities are colonized and worked then a couple of other players are in the running for a win - cultural, space ship possibly.
Either way,it is still interesting and LP's reaction to the T180 embargo will be most fascinating to see unfold...
I would like to see LP stick around after this game; Other teams definitely have an opening iff LP is cut down a peg or two. A dogpile makes sense for them. For a player with no way to win-it, it is certainly frustrating. But I think in that case you play to see what you *can* manage short of winning. Maybe that means mucking around with the big dogs and playing kingmaker, maybe it means drafting in behind the leader to 2nd place on the scoreboard, these are all reasonable things IMO. Each player is different though.
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I try to stay neutral on these things for obvious reasons, but I also hope LP sticks around RB after this. But if I was him, I am not sure I would. This lurker thread is going to be a fairly brutal read for him.
Completed: SG2-Wonders or Else!; SG3-Monarch Can't Hold Me; WW3-Surviving Wolf; PBEM3-Replacement for Timmy of Khmer; PBEM11-Screwed Up Huayna Capac of Zulu; PBEM19-GES, Roland & Friends (Mansa of Egypt); SG4-Immortality Scares Me
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I for one like the dude, his play has been decent, but his strong point was his ridiculous farmer's gambit. Anyone competent can run away if they expand to #1 through a ton of grassland river cottages, happiness resources and lengthy NAPs.
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In my opinion, the fact that he could get a ridiculous farmer's gambit is enough to prove that he's strong and thus deserving to win this game...
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