Uncommonly Good: A Story of Elves

[Man Behind the Mask]

Another uneventful turn.... One micro point – assuming safety from barbs, there’s no point moving the worker all the way to the hill and then back again the next turn. We will want a road eventually, so he can put a turn into that. I’m also not sure why LL can’t make the city square next turn if you want him to.

On the tech and city thinking, I should probably explain as I seem to have put an idea into Gaspar’s head. The pigs/cotton site is the best we have going for commerce. The downsides are firstly that it really needs two techs to get up to strength, and secondly at size 5/6 it might well be making precisely 1 hpt (3 riverside cottages, cotton and 1/2 coast to avoid growth). I was not suggesting one of the northern sites had any prospect for commerce, in fact quite the opposite. What they can do is generate a good food surplus for building workers and settlers. That lets the capital focus very directly on commerce (and building things with hammers, not food) to leverage the God King/Academy boni. I’ll try to have a look at some numbers before we need to make any decisions, as I don’t have a gut feel for which combination would be more productive.

Azoth presents a pretty persuasive alternative plan. I’d really like to know the lie of the land (Hunters and Hawks!) before being sure that an offensive March of the Trees is viable.

Oh, and before Gaspar worries later, I think some of the teams will be getting third ring land points next turn. Kyan just got his capital up to size 7.

[Mardoc]

Azoth presents a pretty persuasive alternative plan. I’d really like to know the lie of the land (Hunters and Hawks!) before being sure that an offensive March of the Trees is viable.

That's precisely my thinking, too. If it's possible, I like Marching the trees instead of bothering with unit training and gathering and tactics and all that. And I would really like to pick up some/many econ techs before going all-in on war techs. It's just that Nicolae's far enough away that any one of several things going wrong (his 2nd city too far away, speedbump units in the way, too many warriors piled in a city to take out in our 1-2 turns of life) would leave us hanging in the breeze, committed to attack but with our forces melting back into the forest. On the gripping hand, we want Hunting either way, and that will tell us whether MotT is a viable war plan or not, instead of just speculating. So I'd like to defer this debate until we have better information from which to judge.

Oh - a detail. I would train the first Hawk before the first Hunter. The Hawk is much cheaper, and that would let us scout all around the capital while waiting for his ride, making sure we're in good shape for dotmapping, maybe even pick up a contact, ensure safety from would be chokers, etc.

[NobleHelium]

Treants, on the other hand, are fast (they can double move through jungle) and retain the element of surprise (Nicolae would only have about five turns to prepare after we fired the worldspell.)

Not quite sure what you mean here. Treants only last five turns, no? We'd need to hit something with them in like two turns after declaring if they're going to be of use.

[Azoth]

On the tech and city thinking, I should probably explain as I seem to have put an idea into Gaspar’s head. The pigs/cotton site is the best we have going for commerce. The downsides are firstly that it really needs two techs to get up to strength, and secondly at size 5/6 it might well be making precisely 1 hpt (3 riverside cottages, cotton and 1/2 coast to avoid growth). I was not suggesting one of the northern sites had any prospect for commerce, in fact quite the opposite. What they can do is generate a good food surplus for building workers and settlers. That lets the capital focus very directly on commerce (and building things with hammers, not food) to leverage the God King/Academy boni. I’ll try to have a look at some numbers before we need to make any decisions, as I don’t have a gut feel for which combination would be more productive.

Ah, that makes your reasoning much clearer, thanks. Corn/Deer/Fish would make an excellent settler and worker pump. The capital could then put all its God-King hammers towards military. It's an interesting idea; though, like Mardoc, I would rather have commerce cities and economy techs this early in the game. But (and this is a big 'but') I'm having second thoughts about using March of the Trees on offense.

I looked up Treants in the manual: base Strength 10, free Woodsman I + II, Movement 1, vulnerable to fire. Apart from the problems Mardoc brings up, I'm now worried that Treants would lose to a determined Pyre Zombie counter-attack. With only 1 movement point, Treants would have to move right next to city before they could attack it, leaving them very exposed. Even if there was an adjacent forest or jungle they could double-move through, Nicolae could simply chop it down before they arrived, or garrison it with Pyre Zombies. A few double-damage zombie explosions later, all the Treants would be dead.

Treants would still work well on defense. So my current thinking is that we ignore the T100 deadline, agree to a NAP extension only if Nicolae proposes it, and continue to focus on the economy. If Pyre Zombies come calling (and we'll have plenty of notice with our Hawks), we pop the worldspell. Otherwise, we wait until we reach Priesthood, build lots of Priests, and see if we can make any headway then. (Priests are a fantastic military build because they can Bloom forests during peacetime.) If victory still seems uncertain, we could wait for Destroy Undead. (Between the Palace and the Tomb of Sucellus, we have two Life mana.) Bottom line: Sheiam are strong in the early game, and generally grow weaker thereafter. By contrast, we are a late game civ. We should not engage on their terms.

I know this is more or less a compete turn-around in my position, but I'm kind of like that.

[Gaspar]

I just want to say, that this is the seventh save I've seen in the same time I saw one in PBEM14. Friggin' irritating. :P

OMG something happened:



Ok, so no big deal I suppose. Research set to Hunting, due in 22T. Getting some cottages down and the Academy up will accelerate that. Let's keep this in mind as we develop - T67 is the initial ETA. Its 440 beakers, we're currently making 17/turn, with 13 overflow from the last tech. I think we can probably get it ~T62, but lets see.

MBTM was prescient as always, here are score increases:

Balseraphs (17), Hippus (23), Grigori (25)

As discussed, the warriors converged on the 2nd city site with the Settler, we'll found next turn. Worker put a turn into a road. New worker completes in the capital this turn, we'll build one more after that before thinking about the next Settler. I think I'm going to continue to skimp on jobberpults until I see an eminent threat, with God King and the Remnants, both sites will be able to churn out warriors quite quickly should danger occur. I'd rather save the hammers for Hunters on the chance we don't go BW anytime soon and build only the warriors we actually need. I understand this is risky, but you have to take some risks if you want to win in MP.

Still looking at T51 for the GSage.

Anyway, here's the repetitive visual:



And the EOT demos:

[Azoth]

As discussed, the warriors converged on the 2nd city site with the Settler, we'll found next turn. Worker put a turn into a road. New worker completes in the capital this turn, we'll build one more after that before thinking about the next Settler. I think I'm going to continue to skimp on jobberpults until I see an eminent threat, with God King and the Remnants, both sites will be able to churn out warriors quite quickly should danger occur. I'd rather save the hammers for Hunters on the chance we don't go BW anytime soon and build only the warriors we actually need. I understand this is risky, but you have to take some risks if you want to win in MP.

I agree with this. Now that we have Education, we probably don't want to build any military until we adopt Apprenticeship. (Are we sticking with Pacifism until the Great Scientist is born?) That means City #2 should get right to work on its Elder Council.

[uberfish]

Why are you planning to attack Sheaim anyway?

[Mardoc]

Why are you planning to attack Sheaim anyway?

Err...because he'll attack us! So we have to hit him first! It's simple self defense!

Wait...that doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Gaspar? What is the diplo situation with the Sheaim, anyway? Are we certain they'll be attacking at T100? It's true, the longer we go with an econ focus, the better off we'll be.

[Gaspar]

I agree with this. Now that we have Education, we probably don't want to build any military until we adopt Apprenticeship. (Are we sticking with Pacifism until the Great Scientist is born?) That means City #2 should get right to work on its Elder Council.

Yeah, unless we need a military solution of some sort, we'll stay in Pacifism until the Sage is born. I suppose you're right that it makes sense to build an elder council before more warriors in city #2. Unless a horde of Azers show up, we should be reasonably safe with the 2 we have, and the ability to react to something for more. Good call.

Why are you planning to attack Sheaim anyway?

As Mardoc said, because I'm expecting an attack from him on T100, and I think you want to get PZs on the defensive rather than react to them. Initiative tends to be the most important factor in wars in FFH2 anyway.

Err...because he'll attack us! So we have to hit him first! It's simple self defense!

Wait...that doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Gaspar? What is the diplo situation with the Sheaim, anyway? Are we certain they'll be attacking at T100? It's true, the longer we go with an econ focus, the better off we'll be.

Like I said above, I think it does make sense - PZs exploding in Sheaim cities rather than Ljosalfar forests is what I'm after. As far as the diplo situation, I haven't heard back from him re: Kyan and the soldier points. This leads me to believe Kyan has sugar-tongued Nicolae into acceding to the Clown side, particularly considering how easily swayed Nicolae seems to be. I'll send him a follow-up soonish, maybe see if I can't talk him into choosing wisely.

[Gaspar]

Score increases: Sheaim (12), Elohim (19)

Still no contact with Kyan. Either he decided against it, was bluffing, or his unit died on the way. Here's hoping the latter.

Worker done in the capital, onto another. Hash Pipe founded at the Remnants site. The worker at that site, christened Almond Joy, after the candy bar, starts a farm on the tile 1E of the city. Worker at the capital, christened Butterfinger, also after the candy bar, starts a cottage. By the way, I'd enjoy lurker junk food suggestions for subsequent workers. As 95% of everyone at Realms Beyond is European, don't feel a pressure for me to know what it is. The "C" worker pretty much has to be Cheetos, as that's about the most stoner junk food in existence, but I'm already taking suggestions for "D."

We pick up 2 beakers (and start losing 2gpt) immediately from settling Hash Pipe, so we shave 4T off Hunting. I start Hash Pipe on an Elder Council, as suggested, for more time saved. Interestingly, even though RoP is in second ring and hence techincally isn't part of the city yet, the RoP site immediately gets the "We love our National Parks" happy. Also, Apparently RoP is worth +3 happiness. Who knew?



The obligatory overview shot:



And demos at EOT:



Still less than pretty. On the plus side... we have a second city. I better dial up Nicolae soonish, I'm almost convinced we should try to avoid this war.