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Epic Six: Suedars's Summary (and failure)

Well, this was my first AW game ever. Since this game I've played a few, however, that didn't really help me in this game. At the time I was fairly bad at warring, especially keeping an economy going while at war. To make things worse, I usually played at Prince level. In short, I was going into this game figuring I'd see how long I could survive. Unfortunately I got a new computer between the time I finished the game, and the report, so no pictures, or even notes. So I'll do the best to give a (somewhat) accurate report of the events.

I founded in place, and went for early Bronze Working. Normally I dislike axe rushes, but I figured I'd need every bit of help I could get. I dropped a few cities, expanding westward (not that I could really go anywhere else), and started preparing a stack or two of axes. I was debating over whether I should attack Toku or Ghandi first, however I decided on Ghandi, since he founded Judaism in a city near one of mine, and it threatened to flip a key resource. (Horses I think). My axes easily plowed through a couple of his cities. I was advancing on his capital, however it had quite a few archers in it, and my economy was tanking, so I decided to let up on warring a bit, and salvage my economy.

This turned out to be a big mistake. I stopped military builds and researches for a while, and right around this time the enemy units really started to come in. I lost several warriors to carelessnes, and all but two of my cities couldn't be improved due to constant pillaging. I tried an assault on Ghandi's capital, as it was a fairly nice location, and had the Pyramids, but it was too heavily defended. My economy stalled, and the units just kept coming. At this point I decided to counterattack Toku, to try and create a buffer, however my stacks got intercepted by enemy stacks (albeit smaller ones), and were bled down little by little. By 500 AD or so, I became noticeably outteched, and things began to get out of my control.

By 800 AD or so I had been pushed back to just my capital, and a fishing village I had founded to the north. The fishing village finally fell, leaving me only with my capital. By this point I was facing cats and elephants, myself only having archers. I was slowly pillaged down, and by 1000 AD or so, my capital was finally taken by Toku.

I've learned a lot since that game, and I now realize that delaying my axe rush to build a couple settlers was a big mistake. I probably should've rushed Toku while he still just had a capitol, and maybe one other city. That would've taken out a warlike enemy right on my border, and given me a lot of breathing room. Also, while I think that while taking Ghandi's jewish holy city was a good move, I should've stopped the conquest at that, and put more pressure on Toku. He probably contributed at least half of the units that attacked me. Letting him live for so long was a huge mistake. I mean, Ghandi wasn't exactly that much of a threat to me. What was he going to do? Steal wonders from me? Overrun me with fast workers?

Anyways, I really enjoyed my first tournament here, and would like to thank Sirian for hosting it. Hopefully next time (Epic Eight) I'll do better.
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Wow, sorry to hear that you had a rough go of things. I wouldn't conclude from your effort that rushing the AI with axes out of the gate is the only way to go, however. It's much easier to defend than to attack, and building settlers (along with appropriate defense) is definitely a valid way to increase your strength, even in an Always War context. The one thing I would make sure to avoid is rushing out to burn down AI cities, while your own cities get burned down for lack of defenders. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it's something that you have to be careful about! smile
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Sullla Wrote:Wow, sorry to hear that you had a rough go of things. I wouldn't conclude from your effort that rushing the AI with axes out of the gate is the only way to go, however. It's much easier to defend than to attack, and building settlers (along with appropriate defense) is definitely a valid way to increase your strength, even in an Always War context. The one thing I would make sure to avoid is rushing out to burn down AI cities, while your own cities get burned down for lack of defenders. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it's something that you have to be careful about! smile

I think some of my disposition to an early rush in AW might come from the fact that most of the AW games I've played have been with Cyrus in Warlords. When you combine an extremely early offensive UU with great aggresive traits, an early attack just comes naturally. Now that you mention it, and I've read another game or two, I've realized that an early turtle could've been a very good move. AIs in wartime production on Noble with tech trading disabled aren't that much of a threat tech wise, unless you get pillaged as badly as I did. When you combine Bismarck's builder traits and late UU, it seems to make even more sense.
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Sorry to read about you losing the game. Shame you don't have any pictures. I'm a bit puzzled; you did what most of us did (go for India first and still build up the empire) and it didn't turn out well for you. Did you overexpand ? Did you miss out on some important Wonders ? Did you get decisively unlucky on key-battles ?
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Something that a lot of good players (especially RB veterans) take for granted is mastering the details. Often, the strategy of the details is far more important than high level strategy employed.

Artful emplyment of the whip, optimising workers, healing units, choosing the right city / terrain improvement, and more, can make the difference between the success and failure of the same high level.

I've read high level SG civ 3 reports where forgetting to micromanage one city the turn before production occurs was considered a smoke move. Yet, despite being able to win reliably on monarch, I've (in almost every epic I have played) left cites on "avoid growth" for as many as 20 turns before noticing I can safely let them grow.

These days, if I have a stack of 8 workers, and 8 jungle tiles to improve, I'll first move a worker to each tile separately and build a road. But imagine wasting 7 worker turns for every jungle improved. Unthinkable?

Such details, until they are mastered, can make the difference between a domination victory in 500AD and a conquest loss in 3000BC

In fact, this is the crutch that keeps me at monarch, and off the top of the lists as far as competitiveness at RB goes. I often, still, find myself doing suboptimal things, mostly now due to laziness. I find myself building a library in a city for culture, when a missionary in three turns from a big city could have achieved the same. Or building a cottage, and then realising once it's done that I need to farm over it.

Suboptimal play style is a snowball effect.
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Rik Meleet Wrote:Sorry to read about you losing the game. Shame you don't have any pictures. I'm a bit puzzled; you did what most of us did (go for India first and still build up the empire) and it didn't turn out well for you. Did you overexpand ? Did you miss out on some important Wonders ? Did you get decisively unlucky on key-battles ?

Back when I played this, my play was fairly sloppy, so some of the mistakes that TheGrimm mentioned slowed me down quite a bit. What really killed me though was that right as AI units were just starting to come in, I led two unsuccesfull attacks against the AI, one against Delhi, and one against a city Toku had built that was encroaching on my lands. With both of these failures I lost most of the units I was using to kill enemy stacks and pillagers, so for 20 turns or so I was stuck just getting pillaged while I tried to get the units together to push the AI out of my territory. Eventually I just fell too behind from this, and everything began to collapse.
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I like how to stuck to it til the very end. It shows tenacity in your game play and that you choice to learn from your games. Sorry for the lost.
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