Diplomacy No press Game 01 LURKER THREAD [NO PLAYERS]

[Brian Shanahan]

I am confused, from that it seems like Germany knows who his opponents are

Yes that confused me too...

I emailed him about it but I'm suspecting that he's either talking about a different game? Or just trying to be funny

I am honestly suprised ye didn't spot this. But it was funny nonetheless.

[regoarrarr]

Got an email from Germany

n this game, is it permissible to send invalid orders as a means to
signal intent to potential allies?

Eg. A Mun S Lon - Par

I replied

Well yes and no.

Yes you can send orders that have no realistic chance of working, but they have to be "valid" according to the judge, or you'll get an error flag.

So the order you suggested would not be valid, because an army in Munich can't support units to Paris. Now you could say something like

A Mun S Lon-Bur, even though an army in London could never move to Burgundy (even by convoy), but Munich does border Burgundy and can support units there.

You can also use a fleet to make "fake" convoy orders, even a fleet that is not in the open sea.

F Kie C A Lon-Par.

For the convoy orders both the source unit has to be an actual army that exists on the board, and the target has to be a land province. You couldn't say F Kie C A Yor-Par or F Kie C A Lon-Mao.

Hope that helps

Question - should I send that as a broadcast to everyone? On the one hand, I don't want to unduly influence the game, but on the other hand, this is kind of a "learners" game and I don't want one person to do better just becaues he (or she!) is more familiar with the ways the judge works.

Thoughts?

[regoarrarr]

France sent this along with his orders

France: Army Marseilles -> Burgundy.
France: Army Paris -> Gascony.
France: Fleet Brest -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean.

Explanation of moves:

I want 2 builds next year. This way I have the ability to keep one army able to get into Par, Mar or Bre with support and only get 1 build, or 2 builds if no one screws with me. I might bounce with German moving A Mun-Bur, but that's ok, it means German can't threaten Par. germany and England can possibly fight over Bel and Hol. If E moves to Eng, well, they can only support one army over to Bre and that is if they give up on Bel and Hol, which I doubt they'll do. Italy might move A Rom-Tus, A Ven-Pie, but I'll still be able to use a support and hold or support and move into Mar so Italy can't take it, and they'd have to leave Ven open, so I doubt that'll happen either.

On the whole, fairly happy with the orders.

Pretty solid orders by France, much better than some of the ones that he had put in earlier (including the crazy F Bre-Pic)

[regoarrarr]

At this point we are waiting for only Italy.

Also, France pointed out

if you click on the number of posts to see who posted in the lurker thread, you can find out who is not playing in the game

Actually a couple of other people have also mentioned that to me, but there's not a whole lot that we can do about that. France did (correctly) guess one of the other players who is playing, though I did not confirm nor deny it.

[Mardoc]

Question - should I send that as a broadcast to everyone? On the one hand, I don't want to unduly influence the game, but on the other hand, this is kind of a "learners" game and I don't want one person to do better just becaues he (or she!) is more familiar with the ways the judge works.

Thoughts?

My inclination is yes, you should broadcast that, although anonymize it first. It's basically a rules clarification.

I assume the downside to trying a trick like this is that the unit you're signalling with has to hold due to invalid orders?

[regoarrarr]

My inclination is yes, you should broadcast that, although anonymize it first. It's basically a rules clarification.

I assume the downside to trying a trick like this is that the unit you're signalling with has to hold due to invalid orders?

Right - I was going to make it not nearly as Germany-centric

And yes, you're correct - the unit will hold

[regoarrarr]

Germany sent me a note saying

Changed orders to Mun-Tyr. Reasons:

Italy (or Austria LOL) being in Tyrolia would be disaster.

There is not much point me covering Burgundy because:
1) I think France will only move from there to Belgium anyway
2) He could support himself into Burgundy anyway

I would have to have spies in the enemy camps to foresee an unlikely
move to Silesia/Prussia/Bohemia

I don't want to contest for Belgium this year. No point trying for 3
SCs and painting a big bullseye. Also it's better to have a casting
vote on Belgium in 1902 and to make an ally than to try and grab it
for myself and make 2 enemies.

Also don't want to risk pissing off England or France. Both of them
are going to be just as tentative at the start and looking for people
to side with, or safe borders to go in a different direction and I'm
hoping that moving to Tyrolia makes me much less of a threat.

If I have an army parked in the Ruhr (or nearby), then France is more
likely to build armies instead of fleets in the winter which I don't
want.

And if I end up in Tyrolia then it's not that bad... I can have some
fun or I can play policeman to protect Austria. Though I am hoping for
a bounce. That would keep my army's options open but send out the
right messages.

I will look like a complete mug if Italy moves to Piedmont lol!

[regoarrarr]

Response from Italy

Basically I'm going to try and follow the "Go Fasta" strategy from here:
http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F1997M/Bergman/Italy.html

[regoarrarr]

Thoughts from Austria

My orders were sent in pretty early on and I have not changed them, but since the turn rolls late tonight I think (or is it tomorrow?), I figure I'll pass on some explanation. I ordered:

F Tri-Alb
A Bud-Ser
A Vie-Trie

My thinking here is to play risky and let Galicia be empty. Austria in a gunboat sounds pretty much like Austria = screwed, so I'll play aggressively here. If Russia leaves Galicia open too, I'll assume that means interest in an R-A alliance. If he doesn't, well things will be more challenging, but that's life. Bud-Ser is obvious, and Tri-Alb is also fairly obvious. My goal all along has just been to come out of 1901 with +2 centers, so if I accomplish that I'll be thrilled and we'll go from there. I didn't even consider the full hedgehog opening due to the no-talking nature of the game.

[regoarrarr]

Okay Spring 1901 is in and here's what we had:

Austria: Army Budapest -> Serbia.
Austria: Army Vienna -> Trieste.
Austria: Fleet Trieste -> Albania.

England: Army Liverpool -> Yorkshire.
England: Fleet Edinburgh -> North Sea.
England: Fleet London -> English Channel.

France: Army Marseilles -> Burgundy.
France: Army Paris -> Gascony.
France: Fleet Brest -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean.

Germany: Army Berlin -> Kiel.
Germany: Army Munich -> Tyrolia.
Germany: Fleet Kiel -> Denmark.

Italy: Army Rome -> Apulia.
Italy: Army Venice -> Tyrolia.
Italy: Fleet Naples -> Ionian Sea.

Russia: Army Moscow -> Ukraine.
Russia: Army Warsaw -> Galicia.
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol -> Black Sea.
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) -> Gulf of Bothnia.

Turkey: Army Constantinople -> Bulgaria.
Turkey: Army Smyrna -> Armenia.
Turkey: Fleet Ankara -> Black Sea.

Names and descriptions are from the Diplomacy Openings Library (of course there's a Diplomacy Openings Library

Austria: BALKAN GAMBIT, TRIESTE VARIATION
The Balkan Gambit with A Vie-Tri, designed to defend against Italy. The paradox is that an Italian attack is more likely to begin with A Ven-Tyr rather than A Ven-Tri. If there is a A Tyr, A Ven you can still force Italy to guess (Vie or supported attack on Tri), being able to divert A Ser to defend Tri. This is the single most popular Austrian opening.

The Gamer's Guide to Diplomacy says, "this is virtually the opening for Austria. It is followed by F Alb-Gre and A Ser S Alb-Gre, gaining two centers. Austria should make no other opening without sound and sufficient reason. In this opening, the object of distrust is Italy, though the Trieste army can still defend against Russia if she opened to Galicia. As in The Galician Variation, however, the defense is primarily a guessing game."

England: SOUTHERN OPENING
Richard Sharp's name for the opening F Lon-ENG, F Edi-NTH. There are three named variations:

the Edinburgh variation,
the Welsh Opening, and
the Yorkshire Opening.

France: ATLANTIC OPENING, THE VINEYARD
In the Vineyard Opening, France conducts himself with pro-English intentions, but moves to enable an army to protect Brest against a Channel invasion. If England proves trustworthy, the Iberian centers can both be taken by armies in Fall.

The idea is to arrange a stand-off with Germany in Bur and then capture Spain from Marseilles and Portugal via convoy, leaving France with F MAO and more options for 1902. This opening gained popularity in the 1980's in British postal circles.

This opening is used in case the Germans try a stab. Perhaps Belgium can be picked up, too. In either case, Marseilles is covered. This opening can be used in alliance with England, where a strong push into the Mediterranean is desired, and Germany is neutral.

Germany: ANSCHLUSS OPENING
Richard Sharp's strategic notion that Germany should, in the early game, strive to keep Austria strong to reduce both powers vulnerability as central (and surrounded) powers. Although they take their name from the annexation of Austria by Nazi-Germany in March 1938, Anschluss alliances are generally regarded as essentially pro-Austrian, with Germany using diplomatic leverage to discourage other powers -- in particularly Russia (with the threat of standing him out of Sweden in 1901) -- from attacking his ally. Tactically, Anschluss openings entail F Kie-Den and A Ber-Kie. Munich either HOLDs or stands off in Burgundy or Tyrolia (the pure Anschluss), or even enters Tyrolia or Bohemia, with Italy told that this unit will aid Austria if Italy attacks. The advantage for Germany is that it is statistically evident that Germany is far less likely to win if Austria is eliminated early in the game. There are three variants:

Sudetenland Variant (A Mun-Boh);
Tyrolean Variant (A Mun-Tyr);
Silesia Variant (A Mun-Sil).

The pure Anschluss is Germany's fourth most common opening. Unless a standoff in Burgundy occurs, it bespeaks an aggressive German player almost certainly allied with England. A standoff is more ambiguous, but may be Germany's attempt to head off a France-England-Russian blitz.

Italy: LEPANTO, TYROLIAN VARIATION
The order A Ven-Tyr is favored in many quarters, as it is is positive and powerful. It allows A Tyr-Mun if there is an Anglo-German alliance threatening France. This will bolster the French defense and help keep the West stalemated. A Ven-Tyr may also stand off a German sneak attack from Munich. It also gives the possibility of A Tyr-Boh (and thence to Gal), adding to Austria's defensive line if this is necessary.

Common wisdom is that on no account should Italy stab Austria. The short-term gains may be all right, but the long-term price is not something Italy would wish to pay. On the other hand, Leif Bergman advocates just that, stabbing Austria, in his Diplomatic Pouch article "Go Fasta Go Fasta."

Russia: UKRAINE SYSTEM
Richard Sharp's name for any Russian opening involving the moves F StP/sc-Fin/BOT, A Mos-Ukr. There are five named variations:

the Austrian Attack (A War-Gal, F Sev-Rum)
the Livonia Variation (A War-Lvn)
the German Attack Variation (A War-Sil)
the Southern Defence (A War-Gal, F Sev-BLA)
the Southern Houseboat Variation (A War-Gal, F Sev H)

Turkey: CRIMEAN CRUSHER
Turkey opening to Bul, BLA, and Arm is an aggressive opening that allows all three pieces to be used against Russia in the fall. Even if the fleet move succeeds, though, if Russia is in Rum, Ukr and Sev, Turkey must still second guess Russia for a second center if Austrian help is unavailable, and may lose BLA in the process.

This opening poses all sorts of problems for Russia. If she has trustingly ordered F Sev-Rum she is in real trouble. Even if she ordered, F Sev-BLA, she is going to have difficulty maintaining her position.