Diplomacy No press Game 01 LURKER THREAD [NO PLAYERS]

[regoarrarr]

I did send this message out to everyone, just so everyone was on the same footing

There was a question on one of Russia's moves in last phase and to whether or not that was a legal move

Russia: Fleet Sevastopol CONVOY Austrian Army Serbia -> Bulgaria.

The answer is yes, it is, and it's a pretty standard practice in no-press diplomacy.

You are allowed to put in anything that is legal syntax for the judge.

So any fleet that you have can convoy any existing army (that is on the board currently) to any other land space (including Switzerland which while not movable in Standard Diplomacy, is still a province on the board)

Any army that you have can support any other unit on the board to any space that is adjacent to your army (and thus your army could legally support a unit there).

So you can make "crazy" orders that have little chance of actually SUCCEEDING.

The downside is that the judge will treat the order essentially equal to a "hold"

Hope that helps - any questions just let me know

I actually brought this up in my PBEM8 game, where I came in as a sub. It was an AW CTON game and I was trying to think of ways to communicate without doing actual diplomacy.

My thought was using unit names to pass messages, similar to what Russia did this past fall. It was decided though that that was not allowed.

But like I said in my message - this is a pretty standard and agreed upon tactic in no-press Diplomacy games.

I'm not sure if any of these players knows, but the standard place to convoy someone to indicate you want "peace" is Switzerland. I guess Switzerland = neutrality = peace.

The opposite place would seem to be the Helgoland Bight which is abbreviated "Hel". Unfortunately though, it's a sea space so you can't convoy someone "to Hel"

[Bobchillingworth]

Thoughts from France



Any guesses from the peanut gallery as to who this is?

ASM?


Could be luddite instead!


It's actually pretty fun to guess who everyone is by their writing styles. I'd guess that Scooter, Uberfish, and Rowain are likely playing, but I'm not sure I can place who as what nation yet. Maniac Marshal is probably in as well. Maybe Italy is... Sciz? Cyne is probably in the game as well. I feel like Germany should be easy to place... Selrahc? Zak? Maybe scooter :P

[regoarrarr]

Here's Austria's thoughts

Well that was an interesting year. First I'll explain my moves, then I'll hit everyone else.

Austria - I felt that there was a chance Russia would leave me alone as a way of signifying that he'd like an alliance (because of England set to convoy -> Norway and because of the Turkish move to Armenia)... I felt because of that, there was a strong chance Vienna/Budapest would be clear. It also seemed wise to support myself into Greece, take the guaranteed 2 centers and go from there. Best-case scenario I get +2, worst-case I get a +1 and I re-take my center from Russia next year. Either way, it was a good turn. I ordered Trieste Supports Venice at first, thinking I could try to show Italy my peaceful intentions... And then I changed my mind and ordered Tri-Ven in case Italy did something wacky... And apparently the ONLY wacky thing they didn't do was leave Venice open .

Turkey - Got a build and took the Black Sea. he also supported me into Greece(!) signaling an interest in an R-A alliance. This is cool, especially because:

Russia - used Galicia to take Rumania AND ordered a fake convoy order for me, also signaling his intention to ally with me. Wonderful. He bounced in Sweden (bad for him but not unexpected), so he only gets 1 build and he needs it in the north AND south with the English convoy to Norway. So out of the 3 countries who can all hurt me, 2 are friendly, and the other . . .

Italy - . . . sent in a crazy set of orders netting him 0 builds. Why on earth would he convoy to Greece like that? Did he seriously think both me AND Turkey would leave it be? I'm at a total loss here. Take your build in Tunis and go from there. So I'll get 2 army builds, I have 2 friendly neighbors, and 1 enemy who got 0 builds. Good turn for me!!

So I've got some decisions to make, but overall the east worked out about as good as is possible for me. I can basically side with Russia or Turkey and both will (I think?) work with me, and I can probably crush Italy if I desire to do so. In shorter fashion, the west:


France played his turn perfectly which makes up for his unusual way of playing Spring01. I think England's choice to try Belgium instead of Brest was a poor one, but it is a guessing game... I just think you'd rather try Brest and be right than try Belgium and be right, but that's just my opinion. Germany is in good shape which I'm happy about.

[regoarrarr]

Builds are in

Adjustment results for Winter of 1901. (rbnopress01.003)

Austria: Builds an army in Vienna.
Austria: Builds an army in Budapest.
England: Builds a fleet in Edinburgh.
France: Builds a fleet in Marseilles.
France: Builds an army in Paris.
Germany: Builds a fleet in Kiel.
Germany: Builds an army in Munich.
Russia: Builds an army in Moscow.
Turkey: Builds a fleet in Smyrna.

Pretty standard, though I'm not sure about France's F Mar. Though I guess it does signal to England a desire to work together.

[regoarrarr]

England's post-build thoughts

England:

NO F Bre = Good.

F Smy was likely a mistake; Bul is threatened if Turkey doesn’t do Bla S Bul, which is bad news for me and him; A Mos is no longer tied down defending Sev.



Edi – Nwg

Eng – Nth

Nth – Nwy

Nwy – Fin (looking to grab either Swe or Stp, depending on the situation, in the fall)

[regoarrarr]

Germany sends some good long thoughts

Thoughts on Autumn/Winter 1901:

Austria: Is obviously a lot more clever than me since he knew that
Turkey wouldn't try to keep Russia out of Rumania and that Italy would
try to convoy to Greece! Austria finds himself in the enviable
position where both Turkey and Russia are begging for his help. Will
possibly move Vie-Tyr in the spring and have a pop at the now
vulnerable Italian. Although has a bit of a dilemma in the east.
Presumably wants to dislodge Russia from Rumania one way or another
but can't occupy Galicia as well... unless A Triest moves there so
maybe he will be leaving Italy alone for another little while.

England: Doesn't do anything too unusual in the autumn. The bounce in
Belgium is good news for me but his build of F Edi is worrying. I was
hoping for F Lpl. He clearly wants to head for Russia when I would
rather him move for France. At least he didn't build an army in
London! I would have helped him against Russia in exchange for help
against France. I'm worried that we both are going to have too many
fleets in the area and that conflict is inevitable.

France: Guessed right, didn't do anything weird. But I am AMAZED by
the F Mar build. I can only assume he smells blood over Italy but he
again shows amazing trust towards England which I don't like because
it is building a bond between the two of them. I would prefer conflict
between them.

Italy: Well... I would have to be pretty much 100% certain that Greece
would be uncontested before trying to convoy there. He should have
seen that Russia had bigger problems and that Austria would be safe
enough to move to Greece. I think he's in trouble now because France,
Turkey and Austria look set to put pressure on him now. What's he
going to do now? He can't convoy the army to Tunisia now because
Venice will be isolated. But leaving the Ionian will allow Austria
could park a fleet there.

Russia: I am very glad he built A Mos rather than a retaliatory fleet
in Stp. But I am starting to regret bouncing him in Sweden now that
England looks interested in the north. He also made a plea to Austria
for help. I wonder who Austria will side with. I've been assuming all
along he should just side with the Turk but maybe there is merit in
taking Russia's side?

Turkey: Chose not to try and keep Russia out of Rumania but is in good
position to make progress this year. Supported Austria into Greece so
presumably will be expecting Austrian support into Rum this year.
Though it's hard to coordinate in gunboat, he needs Austria help to
crack the Russian defence. What he must be fearing is a stalemate in
the south while England and Germany gobble up Russia in the north.

---

My army in the Ruhr was the right call because my armies are where I
want them to be and now I have a big say on the ownership of Belgium.

But the builds have made me absolutely paranoid about being ganged up
on by England and France this year. Because if I was in their
position, that's what I would be doing. I'm glad I didn't aggravate
France in the Autumn.

What's England going to do? A reasonable move for England would be A
Nwy-Fin and NTH-Nwy to try and put an army in St. Pete this year. That
would leave me relatively unopposed to take Sweden. As for the other
two fleets, well he will be sure to keep control of the North Sea, but
he can either have a cheeky stab at Brest (I hope but unlikely since
FFrance will just boot him out in Autumn) or make some sort of play
for Belgium. Or just maybe just sit tight and send a message to an
ally. Or support Burundy-Belgium. Or abandon the channel altogether
and move a fleet to NWG. I have no idea... England is very hard to
read at this stage.

What's France going to do? Por-MAO, Spa-Gas and Mar-LYO seem clear.
And in my opinion, he is more likely to move Par-Pic and Bur-Bel
rather than Par S Bur, in order to make a play for Belgium, both in
the spring and autumn.

I'm in the best position to take Belgium but if England and France
coordinate, then I may not get it. I think the best move for me is Ruh
S Mun-Bur and double support myself from Burgundy into Belgium in the
autumn. Again that will let me build an army in Munich. But that will
be seriously aggravating to France, not only to take an SC he is
interested in, but force my way into his territory to do so.

One thought I had was to order A Hol S Bur-Bel in the spring in order
to tell France what I'm doing but tat is at the expense of bouncing in
Belgium in the spring which would put m in a better position to take
it in the Autumn. An alternative is A Ruh S A Hol-Bel or A Hol S A
Ruh-Bel in the spring. Both reasonable but hard to leave Munich open
for a build.

It's not that I'm desperately eager to get Belgium but I really don't
want France or England getting it. France and England probably don't
want me getting it because I am more likely than either of them to get
another SC this year.

F Den-Swe and F Kie-BAL seems called for in Scandinavia. But I'm
worried about whether I can trust England enough to move both fleets
away from Denmark and the North Sea and if both moves succeed (which
seems likely) then I have to worry between supporting Swe or covering
Den. Decisions to be made this year.

[regoarrarr]

More thoughts from England

Turkey’s F Smy build really confuses and worries me. He can’t support A Bul with it right now, so Austria could easily crack it with Gre S Ser-Bul or Ser S Bul-Gre. This takes a lot of pressure off of Rum and to a lesser extent Sev in the spring, so A Mos is therefore freer to engage up north. If I’m going to crush Swe and StP, I need as few Russian troops around as possible.


Also, I’m trying to stay out of France’s hair, and I think he’s obliging so far; not building F Bre is very helpful in that regard. Grabbing Bre would’ve worked well enough for the moment last fall, but I think I’d have had a hard time holding it unless Germany came pouring in from the west, which isn’t really what I want. I want F and G to mostly stalemate; France is likely going to pressure a slow-growing Italy, although he can’t get Tun yet, he can get 2 fleets in range before Italy can, and yank it back. Hopefully he can also stalemate with Germany a while. I may need to provide some assistance in the fall there, although the best way to do that IMO is to attack Germany in the north; Swe, StP and Den are my goals for the next 2 years. And I’d love to see Bel remain empty, or POSSIBLY French. If France does too well, then I have to defend against them, too…

F Por-Mao is somewhat dangerous, as Mao-Eng or Mao-Iri is threatening; I hope France continues to show non-aggression by ordering F Por - Spa (SC) instead. By moving Eng-Nth, I'm making it damn clear that I'm not threatening France's holdings directly, although he can't assume I'll help him in Belgium.

[regoarrarr]

Turkey's reasoning for his build

If A and russia work together I can't hold BUL: GRE + SER attack RUM supports and SEV cuts BLA
So I need a place were I can retreat that Army if need be
Si building in CON would do any good
The F SMY can try to hinder Austria from gaining control of AEG
Else I might be dead sooner than Italy

[regoarrarr]

S1902M in

Movement results for Spring of 1902. (rbnopress01.004)

Austria: Army Serbia -> Rumania. (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Vienna -> Tyrolia.
Austria: Fleet Greece -> Ionian Sea. (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna -> Tyrolia.
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Turkish Army Bulgaria -> Rumania. (*void*)

England: Army Norway -> Finland.
England: Fleet North Sea -> Norway.
England: Fleet English Channel -> North Sea.
England: Fleet Edinburgh -> Norwegian Sea.

France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT English Fleet English Channel -> Belgium. (*void*)
France: Army Spain -> Marseilles.
France: Fleet Portugal -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
France: Fleet Marseilles -> Gulf of Lyon.
France: Army Paris SUPPORT Army Burgundy.

Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Ruhr -> Belgium.
Germany: Army Ruhr -> Belgium.
Germany: Fleet Denmark -> Sweden.
Germany: Fleet Kiel -> Baltic Sea.
Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT French Army Paris -> Tyrolia. (*void*)

Italy: Army Apulia -> Ionian Sea -> Tunis.
Italy: Army Venice SUPPORT Austrian Army Trieste.
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Apulia -> Tunis.

Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Rumania.
Russia: Army Rumania SUPPORT Fleet Sevastopol. (*cut*)
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Rumania. (*cut*)
Russia: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia CONVOY Turkish Army Armenia -> Clyde.
Russia: Army Moscow SUPPORT Fleet Sevastopol.

Turkey: Army Bulgaria -> Black Sea -> Sevastopol. (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Armenia SUPPORT Army Bulgaria -> Sevastopol.
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea CONVOY Army Bulgaria -> Sevastopol.
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna -> Aegean Sea.

[regoarrarr]

(I'm not sure if these maps work right - the URLs might change later on as new phases get added on?)

Anyways - my thoughts:

Austria: Not sure what the deal with is Ser-Rum as well as A Bud S A Bul-Rum. Possibly wanted to indicate support for Turkey but wanted to make sure that Rumania's support was cut? Or maybe a mis-order? Making these kinds of duplicate orders makes things pretty confusing for folks when you're trying to communicate with the other powers... As suspected, he moved to Tyrolia and is likely to take out Venice in fall

England: Moving to Scandinavia in force, which is good. He's signaling peace with France for a potential EF vs. G alliance, but Germany's likely to get 2 builds this year

France: Again, he's setting up for EF but Germany's going to get 2 builds which makes things challenging. France does have the option to look at Germany's friendly support from A Mun for an attack on England (given that England moved east). But England's likely to build this year also.

Germany: I liked the orders. At one point he was going to order a supported attack on Burgundy, but this worked out better. He could have ordered Mun-Bur to ensure that it cut its support, but instead wanted to issue a friendly support for France.

Italy: Oh, poor Italy - he convoys to Tunis one phase too late. Now he's going to likely lose Venice and STILL not build.

Russia: Holds out for spring but now he has to decide whether to use A Mos to support Sev or Stp. One thing to point out, and I don't know if he did this on purpose, but (just like in Civ), it's good to not have a "passive" defense. Moving Bot-Stp this year would have been "passive". Now he can order a more active defense (which is harder to have its support cut). Unless he gets Austria to switch sides (he appears to be looking for an alliance with Turkey), he's probably in trouble. Hmmmm sounds familiar

Turkey: Bul-Sev is . Bla S Arm-Sev is a much stronger move IMO. He has a potential A/T alliance going. It will be interesting to see if they can coordinate to attack Rumania this fall...