We just want our throne back Wesnoth SG 2

[antisocialmunky]

Recall the trident guy, there are Thieves in those houses on the island. I wouldn't use them too much in this level because they'll just get murdered by skeletons and the orcs go quick. They are super HP low.

In other news, if we can get up to the bridges on the far side of the island, its pretty easy to hold.

[haphazard1]

Nice mop up, Fire&Ice, especially leveling up the netcaster and shyde. And the necromancer...always fun to see the enemy beclown themselves.

Recall the trident guy, there are Thieves in those houses on the island. I wouldn't use them too much in this level because they'll just get murdered by skeletons and the orcs go quick. They are super HP low.

Are the thief-types loyal (so we can use them on later maps)? If not, might as well throw them into the fight. I recall there was some kind of choice offered, either they would attack or they could show you a ford into the city. Which is more useful?

I think all of our mermen who get magical or impact attacks (meaning the trident wielder, the priestess, and the netcaster) will be worth having since they can fight undead from the water with decent effectiveness.

All our healers will of course be needed, as we will be taking plenty of damage from orcs and then from undead.

All our promoted mages (or close to promoted if we have some) should be recalled since again they can fight undead effectively. Just have to make sure they don't get swarmed and killed, and have support from the healers, as mages tend to be fragile.

A big question will be how many horsemen/knights/elves do we recall/recruit? We need something to fight orcs with, but other than the paladin all of them will be mostly useless against undead. Other than occasionally serving as meat shields for our mages, that is.

Any suggestions for what order to recall these various units? We only have a 6-space keep, and we need to start hitting the orcs pretty quickly if we are to have any chance of wiping them out before the undead start arriving in significant numbers. I struggled badly with this map when I played this campaign on normal difficultly, so I expect it is going to be ugly. Advice from the team would be most welcome!

In other news, if we can get up to the bridges on the far side of the island, its pretty easy to hold.

Should we make an effort to get mermen into the river on the far side of the island? Or do we just try to blast through the orcs fast enough to prevent the undead from getting established on the island?

I have the save but can not play until tomorrow evening (maybe 20 hours from now). The first three turns should be quick to play (recruit/recall, move, grab villages, recruit/recall more, etc.), so if someone wants to grab the save and play before then feel free. I just do not feel confident about which units to bring in first.

[Mardoc]

Some thoughts:

I think we want orc smashy as our top priority in our first wave. Fast units with power, slow units with power - what we need most is to be able to take Elensefar for our own. If we can kill the orcs fast enough - well, there's 5 villages we already own, 2 that are unowned, and 13! owned by the orcs, plus we might be able to manage to take the orcs without spending all our cash. If we get Konrad, with money, to the Elensefar keep - he can recruit another wave of units more suited for undead operations.

As a corollary to that, we want loyal units in the first wave, so that we're quickly increasing our treasury and have money available by the time we fight to the keep. I think the mermen will be more useful for blasting quickly across the bridges than for delaying the undead, but I suppose a delaying action might be handy if you can arrange it.

[Ranamar]

Any suggestions for what order to recall these various units? We only have a 6-space keep, and we need to start hitting the orcs pretty quickly if we are to have any chance of wiping them out before the undead start arriving in significant numbers. I struggled badly with this map when I played this campaign on normal difficultly, so I expect it is going to be ugly. Advice from the team would be most welcome!

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I have the save but can not play until tomorrow evening (maybe 20 hours from now). The first three turns should be quick to play (recruit/recall, move, grab villages, recruit/recall more, etc.), so if someone wants to grab the save and play before then feel free. I just do not feel confident about which units to bring in first.

I'm not on the team per-se, but I'd say it could be a good idea to recall a wave, or at least half a wave, of mounted units. Some of the fast elven units might be able to keep up with them, too, but just something that can get moving forward quickly. Also, horses are orcy-smashy, even the paladin. After that, well, mages are remarkably good in a siege context because they ignore accuracy, and the horses can probably screen for them on the fields.

Edit: Oh, and if there's a real use for infantry-type units, it's for stepping into breaches created in wall defenses, although you could use a beefy mage or a merman for that, too. (I think they all get 60% on castle, but horses don't.)

[antisocialmunky]

Don't rush the level, even with slow-movers, you should be able to murder the orcs pretty quick.

[haphazard1]

For our initial orc-smashing force, it sounds like we want whatever heavy combat hitters we have available. So my current thinking (without having actually checked our current recall list):

- Paladin
- Knight(s)
- Horsemen with high XP (within 1 kill of promoting to knight)
- Any fighters or archers with high XP (I don't think we have any of these already promoted?)
- Mermen with arcane or impact attacks (priestess, netman, trident)
- White mage
- Shyde
- Sorceress
- Druid
- Mages with high XP

Recall would be roughly in the order listed above, giving us some early speed for our initial strike against the orcs and maybe claim some villages along the way. Since there is a fair bit of land to cover before the mermen can move into the water, I would like to get at least one merman in round 2 and all by round 3 of recruit/recall.

How much gold do we have to start? Can we afford all of these at the beginning, and if we can do we want to do so? Or should we try to save some gold for anti-undead recruits once we capture the orc keep?

Finally, do we want to mix in recruits rather than using all recalls? If we want some elven fighters and maybe an archer or two, should we just recruit fresh units to save gold? I am not sure what we have in the recall list with XP in these categories.

[Mardoc]

How much gold do we have to start? Can we afford all of these at the beginning, and if we can do we want to do so? Or should we try to save some gold for anti-undead recruits once we capture the orc keep?

We have approximately 260 gold. We also have 7 income, plus two villages we can grab pretty soon. Which is 13 recalls, or more recruiting. I think I would go ahead and try for all of them. Even if a knight, say, is less effective against a skeleton, he's still high HP, modest damage after resistance, and if we get the villages quick, we'll be able to recruit anyway with income rather than the initial stock.

Plus, well - half your list is good against undead anyway - the mages + white mage, the paladin, the mermen, possibly the Shyde/sorceress/druid. We might as well go for the obvious way to get them around.

Finally, do we want to mix in recruits rather than using all recalls? If we want some elven fighters and maybe an archer or two, should we just recruit fresh units to save gold? I am not sure what we have in the recall list with XP in these categories.

I do like the idea of adding in some fresh blood if possible; Konrad will make them more effective anyway, and we can't afford to stop training our forces. Alternately, that'd give us some cheap ZOC that we don't too much mind losing. You'll have to judge that based on the recall list, I suppose.

[haphazard1]

We have approximately 260 gold. We also have 7 income, plus two villages we can grab pretty soon. Which is 13 recalls, or more recruiting.

Hmmm, not as much gold as I would like. Using loyal units will help, but we are definitely going to need to grab as many villages as we can. Especially if we want to recruit more forces to fight the undead, like additional mages.

I think I would go ahead and try for all of them. Even if a knight, say, is less effective against a skeleton, he's still high HP, modest damage after resistance, and if we get the villages quick, we'll be able to recruit anyway with income rather than the initial stock.

The knights are mostly meant to smash orcs. They are our best promoted combat units at the moment, other than mages/sorceress/shyde anyway. Plus they are fast.

Plus, well - half your list is good against undead anyway - the mages + white mage, the paladin, the mermen, possibly the Shyde/sorceress/druid. We might as well go for the obvious way to get them around.

Yes, they will be effective against both orcs and undead so I think we should just go ahead and bring them into the battle from the start. We can add other troops as needed, assuming we have gold to do so.

I do like the idea of adding in some fresh blood if possible; Konrad will make them more effective anyway, and we can't afford to stop training our forces. Alternately, that'd give us some cheap ZOC that we don't too much mind losing. You'll have to judge that based on the recall list, I suppose.

I will check what we have in the recall list for elf fighters and archers -- both would be useful against orcs. If we have some with decent XP I will recall them, if not I can recruit some new units and if we lose them we lose them.

I agree with ASM's comment that we need to get a couple elves promoted to provide leadership, as Konrad is often too busy in the keep to provide our front line with a bonus. And a couple promoted archers would also help against the various melee-only enemies. Using our knights and horsemen to smash melee-against-melee works reasonably well but also tends to result in badly wounded units that have to spend a lot of turns healing. We need to develop a better mix for our forces.

I should play in maybe 3 more hours, so there is still time for comments. I will mostly be recruiting/recalling and moving units into position, but the rest of the team will then have to fight with what I have chosen. So I am hoping not to screw this up too badly.

[haphazard1]

OK, the recall cupboard was rather emptier than I would have liked of solid combat units. Hopefully what I have chosen will be enough to defeat the orcs and undead.

Turn 1

- Send Haldiel towards a neutral village
- Recall our paladin, our knight, the white mage, trident merman, mer-priestess, and one semi-experienced elf scout.
- The orcs bring in 2 each of assassins, level 2 warriors, and level 2 crossbows. Undead have a mix of skellie axes and archers.

Turn 2

- Haldiel and the elf scout each claim a neutral village.
- Start advancing units northward, mounted troops are at the bridge but hold on this side of the river.
- Recall sorceress, shyde, merman netcaster, a mage with 41/48 XP (hope we can get a kill for a red mage), and recruit two new elf fighters for general combat fodder.
- Orcs bring in 4 more level 2 warriors. We definitely want some ranged attacks to take these guys down. Undead just more skellies.

Turn 3

- Main body advances, holding at our end of the main bridge. One knight is sent east to grab the blue village and threaten that bridge.
- Recall a middling XP elf archer, recruit two more elf fighters.
- We are now at 0 gold, -1 per turn, so Konrad begins to move forward.
- IBT an assassin poisons our paladin, but he is cured by the white mage.
- Three members of the Elensefar Thieves Guild appear and agree to help us. We get a choice of help infiltrating the city or being reinforced by thieves after we break the orc line. I choose infiltrate (hopefully this was not a mistake), and the thieves agree to meet us on the west bank of the river, across from the docks, at 2 hours past midnight (which should be turn 6).

Our current situation, with fighting about to begin:



Note that it is sunset, so of course the real fighting will begin at night. I think we have to hold on the defensive, using the river to put the orcs at a disadvantage, until sunrise. Hopefully then we can clean up the orcs and take the city. But we will see.

The mermen are slow on land, but T5 should see them hit the water. Deploy the rest of our troops as you see fit, and don't forget to meet the thieves. Maybe the elf scout can do that?

Good luck!

[Mardoc]

Got it, will probably play tomorrow. It looks like I get a cautious set-up turn, trying to kill orcs without taking any casualties, at night. I'll probably end up rotating units in and out of the fight, and setting up a line with mermen + something strong on the bridge.