[SPOILERS] Isabella of Carthage, starring Ellimist, SleepingMoogle, and Nicolae

[Ellimist]

I'm considering settling a city four west of Sirius soon and and putting the Colossus in that city. That would allow us to keep the GPP pool at Canopus "pure" while the new city uses the Canopus mines after the clams are netted. If we're running caste part of the time, Canopus could use the Sirius mines while Sirius hires specialists.

Canopus can produce another 1-3 workers quickly to replace whatever we send to the donut. After that we can let it grow to size 7 while building a forge and mining the last riverside hill tile. If we get masonry-monotheism after CoL, we'd be putting out some impressive hammers toward either the colossus or infrastructure.

[Ellimist]

T61 played. The pace has definitely picked up recently. Pigs pasture was finished in Pollux, horse is next. The city will grow to size 2 quickly, then I'll whip the granary and it will regrow quickly.

Settler was whipped this turn in Sirius. The plan I'm currently executing is to unload a warrior off the galley at the start of the next turn, then load both the settler and worker from Sirius onto the galley to be unloaded the following turn.

We've uncovered a little more land since the last dotmap attempts, so here are some images that should help.

Visible land:

Riverside tiles emphasized:

Dotmap showing possibilities:

Pink and white don't have as much long term potential, so I think we definitely want to settle blue, yellow, or red next. Blue and yellow are the sites we've been considering so far, but I think red is a good possibility as well.



Analysis of each one:

Basic overview, not double counting any tiles:

1 resource(corn)(1 on river)
4 floodplains tiles(3 on river)
10 grassland tiles(8 on river)
2 grass hill tiles(2 on river)
3 peak tiles

2 resources(corn, pig)(1 on river)
2 floodplains tiles(2 on river)
9 grassland tiles(6 on river)
5 grass hill tiles(1 on river)
2 peak tiles

4 resources(corn, pig, silk, silk)(2 on river)
2 floodplains tiles(2 on river)
8 grassland tiles(6 on river)
1 plains tile(1 on river)
2 plains hill tiles(2 on river)
3 peak tiles

Comparison of other factors:

Total riverside tiles:
[INDENT]14: Blue
13: Red
10: Yellow[/INDENT]
Forests to chop:
[INDENT]7: Blue, Red
6: Yellow[/INDENT]
Can be settled on:
[INDENT]T64: Blue
T65: Yellow, Red[/INDENT]
City square:
[INDENT]Plains hill: Yellow
Grass hill: Blue, Red[/INDENT]

[Ellimist]

Okay I reviewed the 3 spots with some very basic assumptions. I assumed that we would mine all the hill tiles, cottage all the flatland, and hook up all the resources. I also split riverside, resource, and non-cottage commerce out.
Of course, we don't HAVE to do these specific improvements. We'll almost definitely do some of them different. But these assumptions can help provide a framework to at least distinguish our choices.


They end up with:

Blue:
40 food, 7 hammers, 14 commerce
plus commerce/hammers from 14 cottages/hamlets/villages/towns
(at size 17)

Yellow:
40 food, 18 hammers, 10 commerce
plus commerce/hammers from 11 cottages/hamlets/villages/towns
(at size 18)

Red:
38 food, 10 hammers, 21 commerce
plus commerce/hammers from 11 cottages/hamlets/villages/towns
(at size 17)

All cities have at least:
38 food(4 surplus), 7 hammers, 10 commerce, plus commerce/hammers from 11 cottages/hamlets/villages/towns

So the trade offs are

Blue:
6 surplus food, 4 commerce, plus 3 extra cottages/hamlets/villages/towns
Yellow:
4 surplus food, 11 hammers
Red:
4 surplus food, 3 hammers, 11 commerce

Each town is worth up to 7 commerce and 2 hammers(universal sufferage, levees). For now, I'm only really considering the commerce. I know this is looking at things over a very long timeline, but the sites are similar enough early on.

I think Red's major benefit is the ability to get the silk commerce up and running quickly. Other than that, it seems clearly inferior to yellow. Between the two, red gains 11 commerce at the price of 8 hammers. I think the hammers are more important, overall. Bureaucracy multiplies both, anyway.

Between Blue and Yellow, things are not as straightforward. Blue is definitely better for commerce, but yellow is vastly better on hammers. Before US/levees, we're looking at, basically, up to 25 commerce for 11 hammers. Between the two of them, I favor yellow. We'll find ways to put the production to use, and we'll have the flexibility to swap between the the mines or the cottages as the city grows. At a minimum, we'll be able to get multiplier buildings out faster. Overall, it seems like the stronger location, even if we do lose out on some late game commerce. Early game, we won't be working marginal tiles anyway so it won't really have an impact.

Let me know if I missed something.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I am 100% for Yellow next, as it has both short term benefits (double food in 1st ring, rivers, hills), and enough long term potential to become a bureaucademy supercapital. I don't like Red that much simply because it gets its food up slower, though Silk tiles are decent to work, so we want to settle them shortly before we get Calendar.

Also, don't bother with a lighthouse, I don't care if it's a sunk cost, I'd rather have a forge. A forge turns each population whip into 37.5 hammers, and the bonus will be applied to every single build afterwards. We want to start getting them in play ASAP, though settlers and workers can compete with that priority. And if you really really want a 3 food whales tile, then you may as well just farm those forests for a 3/0/1 tile.

[SleepingMoogle]

Well, it seems like my opinion is in the minority so yellow it is. I reserve the right to say I told you so when our tech rate suffers down the line though. :neenernee

I do agree with Nicolae about the Forge having prio over a Lighthouse though. And I just don't see any rational argument why any city with a +5 or higher food surpluss shouldn't be whipped every 10 turns if it's building something useful, when the population regrows within half that time just by working the food resources and cottages.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Who says we need to whip it every 10 turns? What if we whipped it every ~5 turns, and simply eat the extra whip anger? While I'll lobby for farms at Sirius and cottages on the mainland, and SM for cottages everywhere, I think all agree those ugly forests must go and turn into something else.

And I wouldn't worry about our tech rate at all, considering the colossus coast and the sheer number of riverside grasslands/floodplains in the area. We are going to have zero problems growing onto riverside tiles. And our commerce rate will grow much faster if our city has pigs and wet corn in its 1st ring. I intend to get into a winning position by the renaissance, who cares if yellow at size 20 generates marginally less commerce than red at size 20 :neenernee?

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Hey, we finally met Jkioan, the only missing contacts are Kuro <--> Noblehelium. I don't think they're managing espionage at all, they've allocated 1 point towards us. I think the "hold up" in the save had to do with open borders negotiations with Kuro.

I moved the warrior 1 tile east than you planned Ellimist, but that's okay because it doesn't delay landing the settler at all. I switched from Lighthouse to forge, we're going to chop and improve those forests as soon as possible. Once the worker completes in Canopus, I vote 1 more worker before we start working on the forge in Canopus, so we'll have a 5:4 worker:city ratio. I think we should pump another worker out of Pollux before we start cottaging it, but ymmv.









Also, I believe Kuro has settled that pigs/2 clams site you mentioned earlier, as mousing over the southern clams says the tile has been hooked up. Interestingly, the pigs hasn't been hooked up yet, despite having settled the site a while ago. This is good, it means he's behind on worker turns, and we shouldn't be scared of him.

[Ellimist]

I think the "hold up" in the save had to do with open borders negotiations with Kuro.

I don't think so. Kuro is definitely up to something. I was chatting with him off and on from before he got the save, and he started playing it immediately.

He spent [SIZE="4"]six and a half hours[/SIZE] playing this turn.

I'll post the chat when I get home. I can vaguely remember several things that might be significant.

T 61 played and save sent to Kuro.

I have it and have been playing, but I need to do some stuff in-game, so I won't be sending it out for a while.

Yeah going to sleep.

Turn sent along.

When you look back after the game, you'll understand why this took so long.

[Ellimist]

Kuro chat log from the past few days:

8/5—00:24:02 Kuro___ So yeah, how are ya?
8/5—00:33:41 Ellimist_ just played the turn
8/5—00:36:47 Kuro___ Ah, cool
8/5—01:00:31 Ellimist_ in answer to your email
8/5—01:00:34 Ellimist_ we did indeed meet noble tonight
8/5—01:00:40 Kuro___ Oh I see.
8/5—01:00:47 Kuro___ Cool.
8/5—01:00:56 Ellimist_ neither of us has writing yet so we don't have OB yet
8/5—01:10:15 Ellimist_ jkaen has save
8/5—01:10:20 Kuro___ He HASS the save
8/5—01:10:24 Ellimist_ I can has save plz?
8/5—01:42:48 Ellimist_ so how's the land looking
8/5—01:43:34 Kuro___ Jkioan hass the food I guess.
8/5—01:43:53 Ellimist_ we're finally finding some better land but it's not on the coast... which sucks because we want to use colossus/cothons
8/5—01:44:23 Kuro___ Being in-land is probably intentional. Cause strife.
8/5—01:44:54 Ellimist_ I found a floodplains that isn't next to a river
8/5—01:45:10 Ellimist_ sort of odd
8/5—01:45:22 Kuro___ lol
8/5—01:45:44 Ellimist_ there's FP next to it with a river
8/5—01:45:58 Ellimist_ but it's not next to any water or rivers
8/5—01:46:03 Kuro___ Map making mistake maybe
8/5—01:46:08 Ellimist_ who knows
8/5—23:20:10 Ellimist_ yo
8/5—23:20:16 Kuro___ sup
8/5—23:21:13 Ellimist_ so, I think i already told you we met NobleLewwyn
8/5—23:21:24 Kuro___ Mhm.
8/5—23:21:44 Ellimist_ they seem very reluctant to open borders
8/5—23:21:49 Ellimist_ so ummm
8/5—23:24:04 Ellimist_ either way, I thought it was interesting you were "sure" and they were hesitant
8/5—23:24:36 Kuro___ It has Lewwyn on it.
8/5—23:24:38 Kuro___ It's not surprising.
8/5—23:25:07 Kuro___ He's far too aggressive for his own good.
8/5—23:28:33 Ellimist_ yeah
8/5—23:30:19 Ellimist_ anyway
8/5—23:30:24 Ellimist_ i'm doing some math
8/5—23:30:27 Ellimist_ according to what I can see
8/5—23:30:31 Ellimist_ and I think we have islands
8/5—23:31:01 Kuro___ Mhm.
8/5—23:31:57 Kuro___ But not in Galley range.
8/5—23:31:59 Ellimist_ so, either the number of land tiles are not the same in each quadrant or the numbers don't add up
8/5—23:32:00 Ellimist_ yeah
8/5—23:32:09 Kuro___ It could be not the same, though.
8/5—23:32:18 Kuro___ FYI Jkaen's land is nutso for food.
8/5—23:32:24 Ellimist_ :(
8/5—23:32:27 Ellimist_ what do you mean
8/5—23:32:34 Ellimist_ like, triple fish plus triple corn?
8/5—23:32:35 Kuro___ Wish I had his triple Clams + Corn city.
8/5—23:32:37 Ellimist_ wtf?
8/5—23:32:47 Kuro___ It'd be an awesome GP farm lol.
8/5—23:32:52 Ellimist_ best we've found is 1 horse+1pig
8/5—23:32:59 Kuro___ lol
8/5—23:33:03 Ellimist_ on the coast anyway
8/5—23:33:05 Kuro___ Have you looked in-land?
8/5—23:33:11 Ellimist_ we've found some floodplains slightly inland
8/5—23:33:12 Kuro___ Most of the best land for me looks in-land.
8/5—23:33:16 Ellimist_ one FP isn't even rivered
8/5—23:33:27 Ellimist_ it's sort of weird, 3 food, no commerce when the yields are on
8/5—23:33:33 Kuro___ Hehe.
8/5—23:35:18 Kuro___ meh, Jkaen's opening was bad
8/5—23:35:22 Ellimist_ well who knows
8/5—23:35:29 Ellimist_ his opening was odd
8/5—23:35:35 Kuro___ TBH I feel bad Jkaen is my PB6 partner :(
8/5—23:36:02 Ellimist_ his FFHPBEM-X team game doesn't seem so bad
8/5—23:36:09 Ellimist_ but that's a whole different matter
8/5—23:36:13 Kuro___ Indeed.
8/5—23:36:23 Kuro___ But his civ performance just does not impress me.
8/5—23:40:12 Ellimist_ btw will you need horses anytime soon?
8/5—23:40:18 Ellimist_ we should have some soon
8/5—23:40:23 Kuro___ Nope.
8/5—23:40:27 Kuro___ Equius has horses. Horses and forests
8/5—23:40:33 Ellimist_ ah you already founded?
8/5—23:40:38 Kuro___ Mhm.
8/5—23:40:39 Ellimist_ i haven't loaded the save yet
8/5—23:40:44 Kuro___ Gaze at the might of my four cities.
8/5—23:40:51 Ellimist_ yikes we're still at 2 :(
8/5—23:40:56 Kuro___ So is Jkioan.
8/5—23:41:02 Ellimist_ i suppose you were chopping at the same time we were
8/5—23:41:12 Kuro___ Yep. Except I chopped a Settler.
8/5—23:41:22 Kuro___ And I actually have another already with chops in it.
8/5—23:41:35 Kuro___ I just have to wait for the right whipping time.
8/5—23:42:01 Kuro___ I would say, barring movement time, I could have 6 cities in 10T.
8/5—23:42:25 Kuro___ With Equius providing some adequate defense, of course.
8/5—23:45:55 Ellimist_ yeah that's what I meant
8/5—23:45:59 Ellimist_ you were chopping, we were chopping
8/5—23:46:17 Kuro___ But I built Settlers instead.
8/5—23:47:24 Kuro___ I put some chops into a settler
8/5—23:47:28 Kuro___ Then the turn after, I whip it.
8/5—23:47:38 Ellimist_ oh yeah you've been pretty whip happy
8/5—23:48:18 Kuro___ I guess.
8/5—23:48:44 Kuro___ What else am I going to do with a low production, high food capital?
8/6—00:02:40 Ellimist_ whip it... whip it good
8/6—00:03:14 Ellimist_ are you finding a lot of mountain ranges?
8/6—00:17:28 Kuro___ Mhm.
8/6—00:17:36 Kuro___ There do seem to be a good number of mountains.
8/6—22:13:07 Kuro___ Also, yes, I can get Poly this turn.
8/6—22:15:00 Ellimist_ btw, @ pitboss 6, i'm spoiled
8/6—22:15:37 Kuro___ Well, we have 4 dedlurkers anyway, so.
8/6—22:16:15 Kuro___ I guess apparantly we are really popular underdogs >_>
8/6—22:16:38 Ellimist_ well it will be fun watching sullla/speaker/sunrise stomp you
8/6—22:16:59 Kuro___ I wouldn't bet on it. :)
8/6—22:17:08 Ellimist_ no betting
8/6—22:17:17 Ellimist_ i'll save my bets for PBEM21
8/6—22:17:20 Kuro___ Egotistical as it may be, I don't think our chances are that bad.
8/6—22:17:24 Ellimist_ i'll bet on the guy who already has 4 cities
8/6—22:17:31 Kuro___ Hehehe.
8/6—22:17:41 Ellimist_ despite being the only non-expansive leader
8/6—22:17:45 Kuro___ And sometime after Mono, we should have 6. 8D
8/6—22:18:00 Kuro___ Yeah, I noted that earlier when I wondered why Jkioan was so slooooow.
8/6—22:18:10 Ellimist_ we'll settle another next turn
8/6—22:21:19 Kuro___ Aw.
8/6—22:21:33 Kuro___ Find any better city spots today?
8/6—22:21:40 Ellimist_ a couple
8/6—22:21:45 Ellimist_ not coastal
8/6—22:21:59 Kuro___ I only have one good coastal too. 8D
8/6—22:22:12 Ellimist_ you said Jkaen had something good
8/6—22:23:43 Kuro___ Welp. And now my FFH 11 game save is in too.
8/6—22:24:25 Ellimist_ how goes it?
8/6—22:24:35 Kuro___ FFH11? Good.
8/6—22:24:40 Kuro___ Nice research time, good turn pace.
8/6—22:24:51 Kuro___ Dunno how well I'm doing because FFH, but it feels good.
8/6—22:32:05 Kuro___ Well, at least Jkioan's land isn't looking quite as well as I go on.
8/6—22:32:13 Kuro___ Four tiles and no food within the coast, just a jungled Dye.
8/6—22:32:22 Ellimist_ jungled is good
8/6—22:32:26 Ellimist_ i like that it is jungled
8/6—22:32:35 Ellimist_ because more than likely
8/6—22:32:49 Ellimist_ those Malinese and ottoman teams are going to end up with a lot of that land
8/6—22:32:57 Kuro___ Indeed.
8/6—22:33:08 Kuro___ Jkioan is like 50 points under everyone. Jeez.
8/6—22:33:10 Ellimist_ yeah
8/6—22:33:14 Ellimist_ dunno what he's been doing
8/6—22:33:22 Ellimist_ i mean
8/6—22:33:27 Ellimist_ has he even whipped
8/6—22:33:35 Ellimist_ wait yeah he has
8/6—22:33:39 Ellimist_ he was size 6 earlier
8/6—22:33:41 Kuro___ He has. I think.
8/6—22:33:51 Ellimist_ slavery is so awesome
8/6—22:34:05 Kuro___ Why do you think I have 4 cities? ;)
8/6—22:34:26 Ellimist_ slavery is how you GET SHIT DONE
8/6—22:34:36 Ellimist_ at the minor cost of innocent lives
8/6—22:34:50 Kuro___ Meh. THEY WERE GONNA DIE EVENTULLY ANYWAY
8/6—22:40:07 Kuro___ I'm generally finding the good cities look to be inland.
8/6—22:41:49 Ellimist_ yeah
8/6—22:42:46 Ellimist_ I can has save?
8/6—22:43:12 Kuro___ NOPE. Still doing things. Am actually playing, though.
8/6—22:49:15 Kuro___ And suddenly I'm #1 in GNP. Running 0% or something?
8/6—22:49:38 Ellimist_ writing finished
8/6—22:49:46 Kuro___ Ah.
8/6—22:49:52 Kuro___ No tech selected yet, I presume.
8/6—22:50:21 Ellimist_ yeah
8/6—22:50:34 Ellimist_ we haven't decided yet
8/6—22:50:49 Ellimist_ we still have plenty of culture though
8/6—22:50:55 Ellimist_ holy city plus oracle
8/6—22:51:17 Kuro___ Indeed.
8/6—22:51:20 Kuro___ Even more fake GNP than me.
8/6—23:02:10 Kuro___ Welp. Assuming nothing happens, Monotheism should be a 5-turn tech. Maybe 4.
8/6—23:04:29 Kuro___ Sending save E-Mail now...
8/6—23:05:37 Kuro___ Sent
8/6—23:22:35 Ellimist_ okay, you know how i was convinced the total land numbers didnt add up?
8/6—23:26:22 Ellimist_ well apparently I was right but I suck at math
8/6—23:39:12 Kuro___ Go on.
8/6—23:53:42 Ellimist_ the center of the donut is water
8/6—23:57:33 Kuro___ Not surprising, given the rivers. And possibly because I think my Warrior found a river draining into water. Though it hasn't checked it out yet.
8/7—00:53:17 Kuro___ Whoa, next turn already.
8/7—00:53:50 Ellimist_ yay
8/7—01:15:40 Kuro___ Welp.
8/7—01:15:47 Kuro___ FYI Jkioan still has no second city.
8/7—01:16:05 Kuro___ I'm still not sure if his food resources for city #2 are hooked up.
8/7—01:16:08 Ellimist_ FYI noblelewwyn's trade screen doesn't show ivory
8/7—01:16:16 Kuro___ Huh. No Hunting?
8/7—01:16:24 Ellimist_ either no hunting or no camp yet
8/7—01:16:33 Kuro___ Either or.
8/7—01:16:40 Ellimist_ it's on a river
8/7—01:16:54 Ellimist_ so it would be hooked up if it's hooked up
8/7—01:17:18 Ellimist_ they have clams though, so their third city is definitely clammy
8/7—01:17:29 Kuro___ Most likely around where mine is.
8/7—01:17:34 Ellimist_ yeah
8/7—01:17:55 Kuro___ They have three cities too, then?
8/7—01:18:01 Ellimist_ yeah
8/7—01:18:31 Kuro___ Also FYI: I can get Mono in 5 turns...but I'm also making 3GPT, so I should be able to pump it up for one turn to make it 4T.
8/7—01:18:40 Ellimist_ and they knew you had 4 so they're tracking C&D
8/7—01:18:52 Kuro___ Heh heh.
8/7—01:18:58 Kuro___ Mind if I ask what they had to say about that?
8/7—01:19:09 Ellimist_ well it was like
8/7—01:19:21 Ellimist_ they said "we don't want to OB and give you trade routes because you're winning"
8/7—01:19:42 Kuro___ lol, you are? ;) (Half-joke)
8/7—01:19:43 Ellimist_ and I was all... "winning? wtf? You've had 3 cities since T50 and I still haven't founded my third yet"
8/7—01:20:28 Ellimist_ and plus, I have full trade routes already from Kuro
8/7—01:20:37 Ellimist_ and they were "umm, right. well Kuro has 4 cities anyway so I guess we don't mind"
8/7—01:20:46 Kuro___ Heh heh.
8/7—01:20:56 Kuro___ Glad I helped you out there.
8/7—01:21:33 Ellimist_ lol yeah thanks
8/7—01:22:04 Kuro___ I'm surprised they said your winning.
8/7—01:22:14 Kuro___ You seem solid second to me. No offense.
8/7—01:22:19 Ellimist_ I think they were a little sore @ the oracle tbh
8/7—01:22:27 Kuro___ Yeah.
8/7—01:22:32 Kuro___ You might wanna be careful with them.
8/7—01:22:35 Ellimist_ we took a reputation hit before we ever met them
8/7—01:22:40 Kuro___ Lewwyn is nothing if not a loose cannon.
8/7—01:22:53 Kuro___ He's probably already planning how to get his Oracle ;)
8/7—01:23:08 Ellimist_ lol
8/7—01:23:26 Kuro___ Could of been worse, Jkioan could of built it and then Lewwyn would just steamroll him XD
8/7—01:23:32 Ellimist_ yeah
8/7—01:26:21 Ellimist_ i'll notice if the demos show the power graph spiking
8/7—01:26:33 Kuro___ I more say that because of the fact Lewwyn is the one who would be ragin' IMO, so yeah.
8/7—01:26:48 Ellimist_ well this map will fill up fast
8/7—01:26:55 Ellimist_ but for now we all have plenty of space
8/7—01:28:20 Kuro___ Turn sent now.
8/7—01:29:03 Ellimist_ got it
8/7—03:12:33 Kuro___ What are the odds I can get a Hindu Missionary before T100?
8/7—03:12:44 Ellimist_ ummm
8/7—03:12:49 Ellimist_ not bad?
8/7—03:12:55 Kuro___ Cool.
8/7—03:12:59 Ellimist_ hard to say
8/7—03:13:25 Kuro___ It would be nice if you could. I should be able to send you one fairly fast myself.
8/7—03:13:31 Ellimist_ k
8/7—03:14:10 Ellimist_ it's hard to say what our priorities will be through T100
8/7—03:14:18 Ellimist_ I'm not sure exactly what they are through T65
8/7—03:14:23 Kuro___ Hehehe.
8/7—03:14:45 Kuro___ Just wondering cause of shenanigans is all.
8/7—03:15:37 Kuro___ Ofc the sooner the better, but eh, can't get everything super quick.
8/7—03:16:03 Ellimist_ we're going for caste first, then OR
8/7—03:16:11 Kuro___ Eeeh.
8/7—03:18:56 Kuro___ You havent seen Marble or Stone yet, right?
8/7—03:19:02 Ellimist_ I have not, no
8/7—03:19:06 Ellimist_ I think maybe on the center island
8/7—03:19:12 Kuro___ My thoughts exactly.
8/7—03:19:13 Ellimist_ center-center island
8/7—03:20:00 Kuro___ All of the center. All of it.
8/7—20:54:14 Kuro___ Hey.
8/7—20:54:32 Ellimist_ how are things?
8/7—20:54:43 Kuro___ Good. Just finished a MP Medieval game.
8/7—20:54:50 Ellimist_ go team reject!
8/7—20:55:08 Kuro___ We barely lost to a Bob/Oledavy/AI team with Kuro/TT/Pindicator team.
8/7—20:56:04 Kuro___ Very good game though.
8/7—20:56:20 Ellimist_ so I realized that I told you we were going for CoL now
8/7—20:56:37 Ellimist_ but forgot to ask what your plans are now that judaism is gone
8/7—20:57:08 Ellimist_ do you have any particular tech path in mind?
8/7—20:57:11 Kuro___ I'm going to 3T Archery.
8/7—20:58:57 Kuro___ I can't say I'm not worried you might try something due to the whole Jew thing.
8/7—20:59:08 Ellimist_ what do you mean?
8/7—21:00:10 Kuro___ If I calculated the turns correctly... NobleLewwyn would of beat you anyway by 1-2T.
8/7—21:01:37 Kuro___ Figured you might be angry since me going for it delayed you or something.
8/7—21:01:46 Ellimist_ I'm not...
8/7—21:02:13 Ellimist_ If it bothered me that you were going for it, I wouldn't have agreed to not compete for it
8/7—21:02:20 Kuro___ True enough
8/7—21:02:56 Ellimist_ lack of a jewish missionary is a little more significant, but maybe you can get buddhism from your routes with jkaen or something
8/7—21:03:02 Ellimist_ or maybe you'll found another religion
8/7—21:03:12 Kuro___ Well...
8/7—21:03:12 Ellimist_ either way, no biggie
8/7—21:03:14 Kuro___ TBH I already got Buddhism!
8/7—21:03:17 Ellimist_ lol
8/7—21:03:32 Kuro___ I can do a Missionary trade with it, though it might come later.
8/7—21:03:41 Ellimist_ yeah no rush
8/7—21:03:45 Kuro___ TBH if we do a Buddhism/Hinduism swap I'd prefer I get Hindu a bit faster.
8/7—21:03:54 Ellimist_ we're in REX mode ourselves
8/7—21:04:03 Kuro___ Ah, when do you think you'll land the Colossus?
8/7—21:04:07 Ellimist_ not sure
8/7—21:04:16 Ellimist_ we're building the requisite forge
8/7—21:05:07 Ellimist_ so I build forge for a few turns, build or whip settler or w/e, build forge for a few more, etc.
8/7—21:05:09 Kuro___ It'll be...11T-ish? 15T-ish?
8/7—21:05:27 Kuro___ Well, we're discovering Maths after Archery, so.
8/7—21:05:48 Kuro___ I forgot.
8/7—21:06:51 Ellimist_ not sure
8/7—21:07:01 Ellimist_ we've got the mines in place already, so we'll build the forge, hook up copper, and be done with it soon after that
8/7—21:07:03 Kuro___ Gonna slowbuild it, huh?
8/7—21:07:26 Ellimist_ not really that slow with the amount of hammers we'll be putting out each turn
8/7—21:07:29 Kuro___ Well, nobody else has MC...so doesn't matter really. You can take your time.
8/7—21:07:41 Ellimist_ yeah but we want the commerce benefits sooner
8/7—21:07:49 Ellimist_ especially with the interior of the donut being what it is
8/7—21:09:00 Ellimist_ I guess you're just in REX mode yourself, you'll probably have 6 cities by the time anyone else has 5
8/7—21:09:15 Kuro___ Well, let me put it this way:
8/7—21:09:19 Kuro___ In 3T I get 2 Settlers.
8/7—21:09:33 Ellimist_ 6 cities
8/7—21:09:35 Kuro___ And Jkioan just now founded "New City" last turn :P
8/7—21:09:50 Ellimist_ did it add any resources (clams) to his trade screen?
8/7—21:10:03 Kuro___ Nope.
8/7—21:10:09 Kuro___ He might not have any hooked up though.
8/7—21:10:12 Ellimist_ i wonder if it was on the island or the donut
8/7—21:10:18 Kuro___ Shrug.
8/7—21:10:36 Ellimist_ well if it was on the island, you'd think he'd have a wb ready to net the clams
8/7—21:10:41 Kuro___ Ioan is more the player of Jkioan.
8/7—21:10:46 Kuro___ And shrug, I just build it quickly myself.
8/7—21:11:04 Ellimist_ the "2nd city" site each team has
8/7—21:11:08 Ellimist_ is so hammer heavy
8/7—21:11:48 Kuro___ Thankfully.
8/7—21:25:50 Kuro___ So...yeah.
8/7—21:26:09 Kuro___ I'll presume you're hitting Mono after CoL, 9 turns-ish?
8/7—21:44:35 Ellimist_ it's hard to say how soon it will be, founding cities will impact our tech rate
8/7—21:47:29 Kuro___ I see.
8/7—21:47:41 Kuro___ And then you start Colossus with 25% boost?
8/7—21:48:37 Ellimist_ we'll probably start it before that and finish with the bonus
8/7—21:48:59 Kuro___ Ah, I see.
8/7—21:49:47 Kuro___ no need to rush, at least
8/7—21:50:11 Ellimist_ colossus will probably be the last wonder we get for awhile. are you planning on any?
8/7—21:50:27 Kuro___ Eh...1 or 2. Well, 3 or 4 if you count Mausoleum and Taj :P
8/7—21:51:35 Kuro___ I'm thinking maybe Gardens.
8/7—21:52:13 Kuro___ I get Maths quick anyway, I want Hammams and...well...chops.
8/7—21:52:41 Ellimist_ good luck with that
8/7—21:52:53 Ellimist_ I highly doubt we'll want to compete for that
8/7—21:53:12 Kuro___ I can't imagine you would.
8/7—21:53:29 Kuro___ After CoL -> Mono you wouldn't have Math yet, need to get that and then build it...without me or Noble doing it first.
8/7—21:53:40 Ellimist_ yeah
8/7—21:54:55 Kuro___ There's a reason Masonry and Maths go so well together :)
8/7—21:59:05 Ellimist_ how's your development going?
8/7—21:59:21 Kuro___ My capital has 2 cottages and a Hamlet too.
8/7—21:59:37 Ellimist_ ours has... fish
8/7—21:59:57 Ellimist_ and 1 cottage :'(
8/7—22:00:15 Kuro___ Heh heh.
8/7—22:00:22 Kuro___ You Expansives need to get on it!
8/7—22:00:40 Ellimist_ we spent too many worker turns chopping out stuff other than settlers
8/7—22:00:56 Ellimist_ like the dancing girl on drugs
8/7—22:01:06 Kuro___ Why would you chop your wood for that? ;)
8/7—22:01:12 Ellimist_ omg
8/7—22:01:14 Ellimist_ noooo
8/7—22:03:44 Kuro___ Can you guess what I think I need most? :)
8/7—22:03:52 Ellimist_ hammams
8/7—22:04:02 Ellimist_ aqueduct that adds 2 happy, right?
8/7—22:04:11 Kuro___ That's what they do, yep.
8/7—22:04:30 Ellimist_ i would expect that to be your next priority
8/7—22:04:52 Ellimist_ cothons would be higher on our priority list if the coastal sites we've found didn't suck
8/7—22:05:01 Ellimist_ all the good stuff is inland
8/7—22:05:06 Kuro___ Well, as I said, Archery and then discover Maths.
8/7—22:05:19 Kuro___ after that...IDK?
8/7—22:05:28 Kuro___ Economy from expansion suggests Currency.
8/7—22:05:40 Ellimist_ if you have maths already, why not?
8/7—22:06:05 Kuro___ Well, if I had jungle to clear, I might want IW first.
8/7—22:06:20 Ellimist_ you haven't found jungle yet?
8/7—22:06:39 Kuro___ Only on Jkioan's side.
8/7—22:06:50 Kuro___ I think, anyway. I might of found 1 or 2 and forgot.
8/7—22:06:53 Ellimist_ there's a wide strip near the equator
8/7—22:07:12 Kuro___ I think I've been below that so far.
8/7—22:08:28 Ellimist_ too many peaks on the donut
8/7—22:09:53 Kuro___ Shrug.
8/7—22:10:06 Kuro___ Make the most of the land you get, I guess.
8/7—22:13:34 Kuro___ I'm thinking I'll chop the HG.
8/7—22:20:59 Kuro___ Hm.
8/7—22:21:10 Kuro___ What wonders do you think Noble will go after?
8/7—22:21:30 Ellimist_ hard to say
8/7—22:21:37 Kuro___ Think he might go for the Mids?
8/7—22:21:43 Ellimist_ possible
8/7—22:21:51 Ellimist_ he has masonry if he just got mono
8/7—22:21:54 Kuro___ Being Industrious makes him like the only civ who could easily build it.
8/7—22:22:07 Ellimist_ I guess
8/7—22:23:02 Kuro___ Well, he might not go for it ASAP, either.
8/7—22:23:10 Ellimist_ yeah but he might
8/7—22:23:13 Kuro___ After all, who is going to be competition? :P
8/7—22:23:38 Ellimist_ wonders aren't all about competition
8/7—22:23:46 Ellimist_ even with no competition, delaying them delays their benefits
8/7—22:24:01 Kuro___ True.
8/7—22:30:02 Kuro___ Is there any way I can pay you or something to get that Hindu missionary down here fairly quickly?
8/7—22:30:17 Kuro___ Maybe a gold payment when I get Currency?
8/7—22:30:23 Ellimist_ how much is it worth to you?
8/7—22:30:47 Kuro___ Somewhere in the 25-50 Gold range + ofc still giving you a Missionary, maybe?
8/7—22:30:57 Ellimist_ once we get OR it shouldn't be tough to get one relatively quickly
8/7—22:31:08 Ellimist_ and we can land it on the donut and have it go south
8/7—22:31:15 Ellimist_ so we won't have to divert a galley
8/7—22:31:22 Ellimist_ i think you said you had a city on the donut already
8/7—22:31:32 Kuro___ If thats true, make sure to gift and not just spread, please.
8/7—22:31:41 Kuro___ Going by Donut, I mean.
8/7—22:31:41 Ellimist_ of course
8/7—22:31:51 Ellimist_ i assume you'd want it in a bigger city
8/7—22:32:04 Kuro___ Pretty much.
8/7—22:32:09 Kuro___ One not on the donut :P
8/7—22:32:15 Ellimist_ luckily that would be just as quick to get it down there
8/7—22:32:26 Ellimist_ as galleys get 2 moves and so do missionaries
8/7—22:32:31 Kuro___ Mhm.
8/7—22:32:52 Ellimist_ but yeah, we could definitely expedite it, and OR is on the tech path
8/7—22:33:03 Kuro___ Yeah, that would be nice.
8/7—22:33:38 Ellimist_ you may also get a free spread even sooner
8/7—22:33:42 Ellimist_ but we won't rely on that
8/7—22:33:47 Kuro___ Yes, I'd hope for that.
8/7—22:34:55 Ellimist_ we got a free spread into Sirius :)
8/7—22:35:09 Kuro___ Heh, nice.
8/7—22:35:46 Kuro___ So...would 32T-ish be a good estimate?
8/7—22:35:56 Kuro___ For going CoL -> Mono and then travel time.
8/7—22:36:05 Ellimist_ um, maybe?
8/7—22:36:17 Kuro___ Too early to tell, I presume.
8/7—22:36:32 Ellimist_ yeah, we don't even know what our tech rate will look like
8/7—22:36:38 Ellimist_ after we found a few more cities
8/7—22:36:58 Kuro___ Yes, more cities might be a good idea.
8/7—22:37:43 Ellimist_ plus I don't know how many roads we'll be able to develop
8/7—22:37:47 Ellimist_ to speed expansion
8/7—22:37:54 Ellimist_ so the missionary might cut a few turns off that way
8/7—22:38:02 Kuro___ That'd also be nice.
8/7—22:39:22 Ellimist_ heh, it's interesting how you're basically Catherine this game
8/7—22:39:32 Ellimist_ creative with very fast settler production
8/7—22:40:16 Kuro___ Indeed.
8/7—22:43:24 Ellimist_ do you find it interesting
8/7—22:43:33 Ellimist_ that the turn order of this game moves from you
8/7—22:43:34 Ellimist_ north to us
8/7—22:43:37 Ellimist_ east to noble
8/7—22:43:40 Ellimist_ south to jkioan
8/7—22:43:44 Ellimist_ and back west to you
8/7—22:45:24 Kuro___ Huh. It does.
8/8—00:38:46 Kuro___ Turn to me, yay
8/8—00:50:18 Ellimist_ great
8/8—00:50:34 Ellimist_ i wanted feedback from the rest of the team before making my next move… but meh
8/8—00:50:55 Kuro___ Well it could take upwards of an hour for me to play this turn 8D
8/8—00:52:39 Kuro___ Also, Jkioan has Gold and Ivory, but I still see no food resources on the trade screen,
8/8—00:53:00 Ellimist_ weird
8/8—00:53:23 Kuro___ Mind if I inquire what into?
8/8—00:53:29 Ellimist_ choosing the next city site
8/8—00:53:40 Ellimist_ but there are several options
8/8—00:53:45 Kuro___ That is a pretty big descision.
8/8—00:53:57 Ellimist_ yeah
8/8—00:54:07 Kuro___ I pretty much already have my next four planned out.
8/8—00:55:13 Ellimist_ well moogle wanted one site
8/8—00:55:16 Ellimist_ nicolae wanted another
8/8—00:55:34 Ellimist_ we can't settle both, they aren't far enough apart
8/8—00:55:39 Kuro___ Ah.
8/8—00:55:45 Kuro___ Really good but hard to decide sites, eh?
8/8—00:55:58 Ellimist_ well they have different strengths/weaknesses
8/8—00:58:39 Ellimist_ what about your sites, any tough to decide on?
8/8—00:58:45 Kuro___ Not really.
8/8—00:59:03 Kuro___ I think I've made...two decisions on sites all game and both were one tile differences.
8/8—00:59:30 Kuro___ And both were quite obvious, with the second just needing more land revealed.
8/8—01:00:04 Kuro___ City names will be Aradia Megido, Sollux, Captor and...I dunno the fourth yet.
8/8—01:03:09 Kuro___ If your lands are like mine, I wouldn't emphasis production.
8/8—01:03:18 Kuro___ There's some good prod sites out there so.
8/8—01:04:16 Ellimist_ kk
8/8—01:05:16 Kuro___ Heh, just realized that Maths helps me get MoM too as a prereq.
8/8—01:15:01 Kuro___ I see you're finally not on top in score.
8/8—01:15:48 Ellimist_ whipped the heck out of our empire
8/8—01:16:06 Kuro___ Now you're talkin'.
8/8—01:17:07 Kuro___ Actually, 5 city sites now. Forgot to mark one.
8/8—01:33:42 Kuro___ FYI, Jkaen pretty much doesn't control his team anymore.
8/8—01:33:50 Kuro___ I knew he founded his third city before he did >_>
8/8—01:36:32 Ellimist_ lol
8/8—01:36:38 Ellimist_ well maybe ioan will do a better job
8/8—01:36:49 Ellimist_ you said their 3rd city is named new spot or something?
8/8—01:38:02 Kuro___ New City last I checked
8/8—01:38:10 Kuro___ Except without capitalization.
8/8—01:38:22 Ellimist_ ha
8/8—01:39:11 Kuro___ ...And now I want to name my PB6 team Team Gurren.
8/8—01:56:44 Ellimist_ ummm
8/8—01:56:49 Ellimist_ are you not done with your turn yet
8/8—01:56:55 Kuro___ I am not.
8/8—01:57:02 Ellimist_ k I'm going to bed
8/8—01:57:07 Kuro___ I would not hold your breath on me being done for a while os
8/8—01:57:08 Kuro___ Yeah so
8/8—01:57:17 Kuro___ I'm calcing stuff for like 10 turns >_>
8/8—01:57:21 Ellimist_ mhmmmm
8/8—01:58:23 Kuro___ So yeah, goodnight.
8/8—01:59:08 Ellimist_ later

[Ellimist]

I think we may need to accelerate our plans for the wonder. This part seems suspicious:

8/7—21:03:45 Kuro___ TBH if we do a Buddhism/Hinduism swap I'd prefer I get Hindu a bit faster.
8/7—21:03:54 Ellimist_ we're in REX mode ourselves
8/7—21:04:03 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]Ah, when do you think you'll land the Colossus?[/SIZE]
8/7—21:04:07 Ellimist_ not sure
8/7—21:04:16 Ellimist_ we're building the requisite forge
8/7—21:05:07 Ellimist_ so I build forge for a few turns, build or whip settler or w/e, build forge for a few more, etc.
8/7—21:05:09 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]It'll be...11T-ish? 15T-ish?[/SIZE]
8/7—21:05:27 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]Well, we're discovering Maths after Archery, so.[/SIZE]
8/7—21:05:48 Kuro___ I forgot.
8/7—21:06:51 Ellimist_ not sure
8/7—21:07:01 Ellimist_ we've got the mines in place already, so we'll build the forge, hook up copper, and be done with it soon after that
8/7—21:07:03 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]Gonna slowbuild it, huh?[/SIZE]
8/7—21:07:26 Ellimist_ not really that slow with the amount of hammers we'll be putting out each turn
8/7—21:07:29 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]Well, nobody else has MC...so doesn't matter really. You can take your time.[/SIZE]
8/7—21:07:41 Ellimist_ yeah but we want the commerce benefits sooner
8/7—21:07:49 Ellimist_ especially with the interior of the donut being what it is
8/7—21:09:00 Ellimist_ I guess you're just in REX mode yourself, you'll probably have 6 cities by the time anyone else has 5
8/7—21:09:15 Kuro___ Well, let me put it this way:
8/7—21:09:19 Kuro___ In 3T I get 2 Settlers.
8/7—21:09:33 Ellimist_ 6 cities
8/7—21:09:35 Kuro___ And Jkioan just now founded "New City" last turn :P
8/7—21:09:50 Ellimist_ did it add any resources (clams) to his trade screen?
8/7—21:10:03 Kuro___ Nope.
8/7—21:10:09 Kuro___ He might not have any hooked up though.
8/7—21:10:12 Ellimist_ i wonder if it was on the island or the donut
8/7—21:10:18 Kuro___ Shrug.
8/7—21:10:36 Ellimist_ well if it was on the island, you'd think he'd have a wb ready to net the clams
8/7—21:10:41 Kuro___ Ioan is more the player of Jkioan.
8/7—21:10:46 Kuro___ And shrug, I just build it quickly myself.
8/7—21:11:04 Ellimist_ the "2nd city" site each team has
8/7—21:11:08 Ellimist_ is so hammer heavy
8/7—21:11:48 Kuro___ Thankfully.
8/7—21:25:50 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]So...yeah.[/SIZE]
8/7—21:26:09 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]I'll presume you're hitting Mono after CoL, 9 turns-ish?[/SIZE]
8/7—21:44:35 Ellimist_ it's hard to say how soon it will be, founding cities will impact our tech rate
8/7—21:47:29 Kuro___ I see.
8/7—21:47:41 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]And then you start Colossus with 25% boost?[/SIZE]
8/7—21:48:37 Ellimist_ we'll probably start it before that and finish with the bonus
8/7—21:48:59 Kuro___ Ah, I see.
8/7—21:49:47 Kuro___ [SIZE="3"]no need to rush, at least[/SIZE]