You speak in whispers of the devils I have slain, Brian, Sareln & Ichabod of Elohim

[Brian Shanahan]

We would really benefit from a map trade with Acalostas. I'd put a lot of effort in getting one. I think he has some bacyard territory west of placeholder which could give us more land.

About Kyan: the deal he offers is good, but there's no way for us to correctly evaluate it without the map trade with Acalostas (he also has a lot of Kyan land explored, a pretty nice bonus). If you want to stall him, maybe say that you were worried about a possible attack from him after you finish Acalostas. You could say that I told you that I felt something strange was going on while I played the turns and that you started to worry. And after he wanted the city of placeholder, it started to seem obvious: it would be a crazy good point to start a invasion of Elohim lands.

You can put the discussion on hold due to the map trade too.

One thing to have in mind is that you have an assured way to get the Vitalize spell with Corlindale. With vitalize you could turn all the bad land to your north into decent land. It would take a long time, but it's something to note. If you could form a coalition in the sidelines against Kyan, maybe you could be in a very good position after the dust settles.

And don't mind about Kyan's diplo. It seem to be very similar to Lord Parkin's style. Stand your ground, he'll probably do a lot of patronizing (I don't know if that's a good word to describe it...), trying to show that he knows better. You don't have nothing to lose here, he has the victory in his hands. If worst comes to worst, he can't attack you for 30 turns.

I replied to Kyan earlier:

Kyan,


Well the first option I won't counternance, the second option is suicide and the final option I would not do for two reasons, a) I'm not confident I could pull it off, and b) I'm not quite that dirty. I'll take advantages given and hide my hand, but I won't go out and actively try to worm my way into a position where I'm being a dick just for the sake of gain.If you really wish to know why I broke off with you in the first place, it is simply because I was looking at the map from a strategic perspective. And all I could see was that giving you the whole position would leave me with a Sword of Damocles dangling over my exposed neck for the rest of the game.

Simply put having a city at placeholder and another at the 4 resource site would have allowed you a corridor of manoeuvre straight into the heart of my territory (ok not mine yet) and as I saw it the only ways I could act if that situation would have been to kow-tow to your wishes (except for in a few minor areas) or to defy you and lose my best lands. Yes I have Sanctuary, but that is a 30 turn 1 shot, which if at parity would disuade you from attacking me, but in the current situation being the runaway (and don't deny it either, I can see graphs showing double and triple what I can produce) all you would have to do would to be wait me out. During the thirty turns I could no doubt wage a guerilla war into your territories with my mobile units, but how far would that get me. Unless you made a big mistatke all I can do in my postion (in a time of war between us) is to harry you and pillage. You're too good to leave me such an opening. The third option would be to play two-face, i.e. pretend to be yours while scheming with your rivals to try and bring you down or more plainly stab you in the back. The final option would have been to pull all my units back into the lands assigned to me at the start of the game and use the mountains as my defence, negating all my gains and leaving me essentially as a non-entity (unlike Switzerland I cannot offer tax-free banking for the wealthy).


So in order for me to feel at least remotely able to act independantly I was looking for a defensive anchor to my line, first at the copper (to try and cut the lines directly in times of war) then butting up against the mountains, to allow for a defensive sally-point in time of war. Now either of these probably would not have worked but they gave me the luxury of being able to devise a defence other than abandon the Grigori lands (whom I've spent a lot of effort working towards gaining), or comitting (in-game) suicide.

Corollorary to that I have a higher estimation of the unsettled lands to the south, they contain a fairly large number of resources, have decent access to irrigation at Construction (3 avenues from North, West and South). It is also a strong defensive line along the hills into your core (ok the line is more relevant for western than eastern occupiers). It is also a large slice of land equal roughly to the land Acalostas currently has, and it is safe from all but your backwards neighbour (me). Compared to your starting point it probably does not look great, but compared to my starting point it is paradise. I would have loved to start at the 4 resource start, yes it would have made me cramped, but given me lots more in terms of pop growth and research capabilities. It would also have allowed me to pressure Acalostas a lot more directly and push him harder for good territory, instead of having to argue for a piece of land that (outside from the resources in it) is rubbish, plains hills, plains and desert with 5 mountains inside the BFC is not the kind of city you want for your no. 4. But I was forced into settling it, because a) I had nothing else worth pushing for, and b) if either of you or Acalostas settled it I had no game left, a 3-4 city empire with the ability to contact only those hemming him in is a sure recipe for irrelevance until the moment I got swallowed to further a dominance victory.

Giving me the Kilimorph holy city will ease my fears a bit. I know I am still in a position where defence is hard, but on the other hand the fact that you cannot now directly attack me from three sides makes it that much harder for you to successfully prosecute war against me. If you think that the split is still uneven then I am willing to give you a sum of money at currency (no deceptions re attacking you before then, I won't be able) equal to 20 turns worth half of the number of cities converted to Kilimorph at that time. I would also be amenable to providing you with a priest of Kilimorph to found a temple for you at Priesthood (I'll be running for that soon) at a discounted price, say .75 gold per hammer cost of the priest, if you wish to spread the religion in your lands. This offer is to show that greed was never on my agenda here, it was a simple matter of "how do I make my position secure and give myself freedom of action?"


Finally I have this turn connected to you via Acalostas for resource trade. I have not proposed our mooted ale for corn trade but if you still wish it I will accept next turn. Oh, and I have no trade routes with you in my cites, just wondering do you have any with me (all mine are going to Acalostas)?


And I am sorry if I have offended you with my actions. It's just at the time you seemed to be insisting on a position that I could not accept, as I felt it was indefensible in the long run, and I was, frankly getting annoyed. I am hot-tempered at the worst of times, and at those times a frosty and unfriendly seeming silence is better than an ugly shouting match (which is what I'd have descended into fairly quickly).



Brian.

P.S sorry for the verbal diarrhea. I'm sure I've said one thing 20 times over but I get that way sometimes, especially when writing.

The reason why I'm willing to take the deal at hand is a) because Acalostas as an ally is useless to me (as Kyan pointed out the other day he has a magic resist sentry hero. Also not that Ravus Sol a city established well in advance of Limerick is still first ring while Limerick has the culture to go second ring. He is losing out on tiles to me a good city being less developed than a bad one! and b) Kyan is going to attack Acalostas at some stage in the near future. He'd be mad not to. I'd rather have Acalostas' land and an uneasy neighbour than just an uneasy neighbour. I can always try to forment dissent amongst his other neighbours later.

As regards the turn I did not do muc, but at the moment I am a bit too drunk to deliniate what I did and my current situation, so a full report will be tonight or tomorrow.

[Thoth]

but at the moment I am a bit too drunk to deliniate what I did and my current situation, so a full report will be tonight or tomorrow

Nonsense, Drunk updates are the best. :neenernee

[Brian Shanahan]

Nonsense, Drunk updates are the best. :neenernee

Not mine I start thinking I'm a Cambridge scholar for some reason. For example "deliniate".

[Brian Shanahan]

Ok a turn 100 report is coming up first.

So the turn itself was pretty mundane. I killed off the Goblin with my horse from Hospital, I researched Way of the Wise, I decided to queue up courthouses everywhere (including the capital which has a maintenance cost of 1.36gpt) as 100% research is painfully dear at the moment.

So some pics of my deeds:

Dealing with goblins:

Way of the Wise:

My new city. The choice was a dead heat between Bastardtown and Horse and Jockey, name to be revealed next turn:

And finally why?

This is just baffling, not only is he pulling two workers and an escort out of his land severly, but I told him I was making a connection by the sheep, far easier and more sensible. First chance I get I'm pillaging that road.
And finally:

Skeletor pays a visit.

Also note my horse stack going out for a visit to the country, Zbolub could be a nice city and will be money at least.
I also got the resource trade ability on F4:

Ok onto the empire view:
Demographics:

Financially I'm way behind, even stripping out Kyan (I'm half of the average of the median 3 powers). I cannot help this short term. Though things do improve next turn.
In MFG I'm 10 ahead of the real average and the no.2 power. If Kyan weren't in a golden age I would be competing with him here.
I'm well behind in food as well, though not quite the gulf of GNP. I'm running at 5/8 of the median 3 average, but well behind Kyan.
In soldier count I'm third, which is probably far more worrying than it looks. Details of why come with next turn.

Cities:

Nicker

Production paradise, even with constraints of farms. It is also currently my financial capital, though this will change.
Muff

Production GP hybrid of the future. At the moment it is turning duty as a settler cum worker pump, with builds squeezed in sideways.
Hospital

Decent production site (secondary horseman producer), but has huge potential for cottage cheese. With the current food surplus it can work every land tile and 2 (un-lighthoused) coast tiles. This will be the linchpin of my financial effort within my current borders.
Limerick

Even with the four resources this is a sub-par site. The main reason for Limerick is strategic. It is both my gateway to the east and my crumple zone in case of attack. Those are the two sole reasons I took this site.

Military:

Honestly if I was told that 8 warriors and 7 horsemen would be the no.3 military at turn 100 I'd have laughed. This IMO is a barely adequate military for my current needs, and if I patch relations with Kyan definitely not enough to be cracking a comitted defence by Acalostas.

Foreign relations
Well ye all know about the bust up with Kyan (posts passim) but I've recently been talking with Acalostas and I dropped a line about maybe settling a dye when he mentioned having an ale for trade, noting that it would give him copper. I also reinforced the point in a joke email sent shortly later. This is just me hedging my bets here. If Kyan goes solo on the Grigori or, worse decides on a two-for with me too, at least Acalostas will be somewhat less cardboardy.
I must also get onto Rawwking and see if we can come to some sort of an arrangement vis-a-vis Kyan long-term.
And finally:

Kyan has Form of the Titan (and will get the Bone Palace at eot).

Turn 101 coming up!

[Brian Shanahan]

Kind of appropriate that quote from O'Brien.

OK mundane things first:

I founded a city. Drum-roll please:

And Termonfeckin came up from the inside to snatch it in a photo-finish.

I went market first as this is a backlines town and doesn't need borders popped immediately. Courthouse will be next before the monument.

The warrior came out of Zbolub and I killed him for his insolence, I also pulled the horseman in Muff out to go after Skeletor, if my warrior for Termonfeckin died it was in trouble.

In foreign news I offered corn for ale to the Balseraphs, and asked for a map trade with the Grigori. I also plan on firing off quick notes to Acalostas and Rawwking momentarily.

As regards the Balseraphs:

Yeah this is getting scary. I'll be including this in my notes. Bone Palace needless to say is also Balseraph.

And well that's all folks!

[Brian Shanahan]

Save is played not much happened.

Skeletor moved onto the forest hill giving me unfavourable odds, so I positioned my units for hitting next turn.

Kyan accepted the resource trade (corn for ale). Am suprised I got no pop-up. Acalostas didn't.

I resumed growth in Nicker and Muff (due to the 1 extra happy), gaining me 1 gpt.

Oh and I forgot about my science crash. Two turns ago I was break-even on 60% with 3gold. So I figured out what was my deficit at 100% (22gpt) and how many turns it'd take at that rate (13) meaning I needed 286 gold. So I fiddled around and managed to make 38 gpt at 0% (through emphasisng commerce at Nicker and hiring a merchant in Muff). This meant 9 turns of no science would put me over the line (8.4 odd actually) This rose to 42 with the opening of foreign trade (with Acalostas), coupled with the 38 gold saved got me down to 6 turns even.

A turn later it is down to 5 (well slightly less because due to the happiness I was able to get +1 gpt out of Nicker), now the deficit with Termonfeckin will be slightly higher (due to extra expenses) but I will have a market (Limerick) and a courthouse (Nicker) to off set. So 5 turns should do it.

[Brian Shanahan]

Save is played again not much happening.

Skeletor was defeated. First the horseman went in @92% odds and retreated. Then my warrior from Muff cleaned up without loss.

At end of turn Nicker finished the courtouse and Limerick the Market, giving me a boost of +6 from last turn to +49 gpt. Not bad.

Other than that not much happened.

[Brian Shanahan]

Not much again.

Nicker starts on Harbour (completed Courthouse) and Limerick on Elder Council (completed market).

Due to extra science from ECs (c. 5bpt) I was down to 10 turns at full tilt. I hired a scientist in Nicker (a} for the extra science, b} for to complete the bar) and dialed the science up to a sustainable 90% (164g accumulated -14gpt) which'll get her done in 11 turns. This will give me 15 turns to get Valin and horsemen out the gate, which should give me enough to overrun the Grigori, hopefully.

My strategy as regards the Great Sage is to burn him on a golden age, to give me the commerce and hammer boosts to crank out that many more units in the time allotted.

After Order my tech path will be Masonry>Construction (mostly for the chain irrigation, I need it)>Priesthood>Hunting. And after that we'll see what is best for us.

[Brian Shanahan]

Not much happened again.

I took my horses out of the way of Termonfeckin, due to moving one East South of Zbolub, and seeing Acalostas' scout coming back that way (1 SE of Zbolub). I know he sees my power (now no.2 but still below average. Mil State will do that for you), but I don't want him knowing it's a mobile force (don't want to spoil the suprise).

So to counteract the large number of units outside my borders I hired a merchant for a turn (or 2) in Nicker to keep me solvent for the time needed to get Order. I should be ok.

[Brian Shanahan]

Save played. Turn was so boring that I named my warrior in Termonfeckin "Welcome brave wanderer" on the off chance Acalostas notices.

Kyan's position is scarily good at the moment.