Werewolf 7 game thread

[Serdoa]

To Serdoa especially, but anyone else who'd like to comment as well: the main reason my suspicion on zakalwe has waned, outside of what I've seen as helpful contribution, is because that I don't think it's plausible he would have led both the runs on uberfish and Erebus. uberfish or Erebus I could see, but both seems too reckless. What are your thoughts about that?

I think that zakalwe knows very well that he can't sit back and wait, even as a wolf. He has a certain reputation to live up to as you surely have already grasped. I think that he learned in a former WW-game where he was a wolf that he can't fly under the radar, that will be noticed, and so he does try to live up to it - thats why you saw him several times asking about things you yourself found suspicious - but he is not going that last mile necessary. Basically without the inconsistencies I would trust him. But with them + that missing last bit of effort to really catch wolves I don't anymore.

Back to your question: My thoughts are that zak could not only pull that off as a wolf but also that he would do it simply for the fact that otherwise he would get suspected from EVERYONE who ever played with him or read a game in which he played.

Also, this is bugging me. Is anyone else suspicious that Serdoa, Catwalk, and TT would all simultaneously go after zak? In TT's post where he defends himself he goes after zakalwe but completely ignores the votes from Roland and I.

I not sure where I'm going with this exactly, but I had my vote on zakalwe from page 8 to page 49 and not once did any of those three try to work with me on it, to put it mildly. Serdoa utterly dismissed my thoughts as "unoriginal" even as he began to pick up on many of the same ideas to make his case.

I can't remember that I ever called anyones thoughts unoriginal? Did I really do that? If so I apologize. I did ignore your thoughts and suspicions though, I admit that. But please take into account what I wrote above about zak. I myself did not suspect him all that much. Day 1 gave me a pause but only after Day 2 and that exchange with scooter it was finally enough to have me really looking into that case.

Catwalk was on my back for a long time until he decided to play parrot. And now, in TT's recent post defending himself he completely focuses on zak but ignores Roland and I who also have votes on him.

I guess, the way I'm starting to see it is that the case against zakalwe has been here the entire time; I know because I spent almost the first 50 pages making it! Why is it suddenly gaining any traction now?

Because now finally some of the veteran-players do see the points you tried to bring across without being successful? I know that this is frustrating, I had that in an earlier game which felt like everything I said got completely ignored. Again, I can only apologize and remind you that we who have seen zak play often first stumble upon his "villager-tells" and it does need quite some work to point out the inconsistencies AND get us to finally admit that heck, we really might have a non-villager zakalwe this time.

Now, consider that Catwalk was one of the primary drivers of the uberfish vote that helped TT the most, Serdoa's switch to scooter helped Catwalk the most, and the Serdoa Cat began the attack in earnest on zakalwe when he put his vote on TT. I don't know, I think that's starting to look like a suspicious little troika.

I'm am defending TT. I admit that openly. I will defend Sareln as well. Not because they can't necessarily be wolves. But because the cases against them are weak when the case against zak is strong and we can't afford a mislynch. And I honestly feel that we have a much higher chance to mislynch when we lynch one of TT, Sareln, scooter then when we lynch zak.

(And btw: I know that this contradicts completely my post from Day 2 to go for the quiet people. But we would have had to do that yesterday already, now it is getting to late with not enough mislynches left so that I feel that we have to lynch the strongest case first. And that in my opinion is zak.)

[Serdoa]

First one I forgot, but he didn't state any reasons. Not that serious accusation IMO.

Well, it is true that there are no reasons. Though he made a list of his suspects and I can't see anything indicating that he doesn't meant it serious. But apart from that, you stated

he suggested that I was a wolf who had to get rid of Lewwyn to avoid getting suspected by him. I pointed two times that Lewwyn didn't even suspect me,

and I just wanted to show you that indeed you were suspected. We can discuss about how serious and everything of course. But Meiz, honestly, I think TTs accusation shows lack of experience with how wolfs act but it is not untrue in itself so you should - I feel - rid that of your reasons to suspect TT.

[Meiz]

But Meiz, honestly, I think TTs accusation shows lack of experience with how wolfs act but it is not untrue in itself so you should - I feel - rid that of your reasons to suspect TT.

You're right, I had just missed that Lewwyn had my name once in his list and therefore found TT's accusation odd. But seems like I was his suspect after all

[Roland]

You are solely disappointed by the idea that zak could really be a wolf.

I'm not solely disappointed by the idea, but I'll admit a little bias towards it, yes. Like I said before, I'm trying to keep an open mind here - as much as I can, anyway - but it's not easy to change a whole game's worth of belief, even if your post is rather convincing in some (not all) of its points.

Day's not over yet.

Excuse me? What gives you the right to comment on my moral compass?

Just expressing my opinion. If I'm mistaken about your intentions with whatever it was you were trying to convey earlier, I apologize. It just struck me that you're more concerned about playing for yourself than the Village - that's all I meant, not that I think you're a bad person.

I assume you're not referring to my being mod killed last game.

Not at all. While I can't myself understand what would possess you to view the Lurker thread with a [SPOILERS] tag on it and think it was OK, I don't carry anything relating to that over in the future. Everyone deserves a second chance, and what happened then has no bearing on anything going on now. To be clear, I don't think you're a cheater, nor a bad person - just someone with a very skewed view of what's "best" in this game.

I'm having trouble understanding which moment you're talking about.

1. The moment when I bring to Ichabod and Scooter's attention that I actually did have a justification for lynching Erebus that they kept skipping past.
   
2. The moment when I decided to go for Erebus after he did the "I'm just asking questions routine?"
   

The latter. The former is perfectly valid play regardless of your alignment. As I said, it's not something that screamed 'Wolf to me - just an oddity that strikes me as funny. Could be just you, could be your alignment shining through. Haven't decided, and even if I did it's a small thing. If not for the fact that you've been so quiet all game (and I'm not blaming you for that), I probably wouldn't weight it as much as I am. The fact is, though, we need to nail 4 / 4 'Wolves to win this, and there are plenty of other people whom have posted more (because they can, I understand - not blaming you), so I have a much larger pool of +'s / -'s to choose from with each of them. Right now, you're my most likely suspect outside of Jkaen - even if it's only a process of elimination, and based on meager "evidence".

As I've written before, I'm more suited personality-wise to defense than to offense in these games I think, so switching from def to off is always going to look a bit strange coming from me.

That may very well be, but right now it's past the point where I can simply accept someone's word without having some of their actions already proven to back it up. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong - I'm not certain about it by any means - but it's where I lie right now. Day's not over yet, though. Much could change.

Don't you find it odd that TT attacked only Zakalwe, despite that many have had similar accusations against him, and for example I've been quite vocal regarding him.

Not really. I'd be suspicious if he didn't, actually. Remember how strongly I reacted to zakalwe at even the slightest hint of suspicion, and how Catwalk immediately jumped down my throat for it (while zakalwe admitted it was just my way)? Same sort of thing. I think zakalwe - nothing against him personally - is a person who at times can rub someone the wrong way (particularly someone with a strong ego themselves). I know I fall into that category, and given that Twinkletoes has admitted he's in school with a politics focus it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same with him.

Could it be that he saw Zak suspected and poured more fuel in it? It's not only Zak who is suspecting him, so why suggest that Zak has some vendetta against him?

Entirely possible, and very probably if zakalwe is in fact a 'Wolf. Something to consider, anyway.

Another odd thing. TT has still not commented anything regarding his accusations against me. To repeat, he suggested that I was a wolf who had to get rid of Lewwyn to avoid getting suspected by him. I pointed two times that Lewwyn didn't even suspect me, and it's completely ignored by TT. This kind of bad logic accusations cannot be explained by being busy...

Was going to respond to this, but Serdoa already did.

I think that zakalwe knows very well that he can't sit back and wait, even as a wolf. He has a certain reputation to live up to as you surely have already grasped. I think that he learned in a former WW-game where he was a wolf that he can't fly under the radar, that will be noticed, and so he does try to live up to it - thats why you saw him several times asking about things you yourself found suspicious - but he is not going that last mile necessary. Basically without the inconsistencies I would trust him. But with them + that missing last bit of effort to really catch wolves I don't anymore.

I see what you're saying Serdoa, and I agree with you 100%. The thing is, though - call it pride or hubris, or call it gut instinct - I don't think he's improved enough to pull it off. Read my earlier comments on my take on his slightly altered behavior, and see what you think. If you don't agree, fine. We agree to disagree for now.

One question I would pose to you: who is your second suspect? Why?

I'm am defending TT. I admit that openly. I will defend Sareln as well. Not because they can't necessarily be wolves. But because the cases against them are weak when the case against zak is strong and we can't afford a mislynch. And I honestly feel that we have a much higher chance to mislynch when we lynch one of TT, Sareln, scooter then when we lynch zak.

Well, you have until the end of the day to convince me - though I don't necessarily mean you have to cnovince me. I'm keeping my options open - thus the no vote at the moment. I'm with you on Twinkletoes, but not as much on Sareln. That's why I really want to know who your second most likely suspect is, and why, to see if there's any common ground we can find to get us through today.

(And btw: I know that this contradicts completely my post from Day 2 to go for the quiet people. But we would have had to do that yesterday already, now it is getting to late with not enough mislynches left so that I feel that we have to lynch the strongest case first. And that in my opinion is zak.)

Ok, I'll buy that.

I'll check in later today to see if anything's changed - or anything has come about to change my feelings. I wanted to get this out first thing, so I'm taking an hour out of my morning to slack off in order to post this.

[Meiz]

Sareln, I think the notes you attached are excellent way to process the game and quite funny too . I wouldn't mind if you publish these in the future as well, assuming you stay alive.

[Meiz]

Still, I think we all understood the "if there's a lot of barbs, I'd make a couple fawns for certain, if you intend to get the satyr tech" - part, so why repeat it so much, Sareln? :neenernee

[Roland]

Still, I think we all understood the "if there's a lot of barbs, I'd make a couple fawns for certain, if you intend to get the satyr tech" - part, so why repeat it so much, Sareln? :neenernee

Didn't read his notes, but I have no idea what that means.

[Meiz]

Yeah, that was part of the joke

Seems like he had some copy/paste errors during making of the notes, and I'd guess they are somehow related to FFH mod. Someone should look if he's playing some werewolf race there, so we'd get confirmation on his guilt...

Ah, now I'm spamming again....

[Catwalk]

I'm honestly a little surprised I'm catching so much flak for explaining my stance on zakalwe. If I simply wanted to switch to zakalwe without making a lot of noise about it, it would have been fairly easy to do. Ironically, it seems that honestly explaining my actions seems to label me as dishonest. If I was playing dishonestly, wouldn't I simply have kept that up rather than explain it? Believe it or not, I thought it would help my case (both in terms of establishing innocence for myself and strengthening my case against zakalwe) to explain it.

I want to clarify that I'm not playing some survival game, though. I don't mind taking a hit for the village. At the same time, it makes sense to me to focus at least somewhat on not hanging, as I'm the only confirmed innocent I know.

My vote is still on zakalwe. I think his silence on the Erebus vs me vs scooter debate is highly suspicious, as well as his posts suggesting that he should take a back seat and let others debate. I'd like to ask this of everyone:

A: zakalwe hangs and is a wolf. Who do you think this clears, and who do you think it casts suspicion on?
B: zakalwe hangs and is a villager. Same questions.

Also, noone seems to be commenting on the vigilante claim. I still think a confirmed innocent is worth more to us than to the wolves.

[Gaspar]

A: zakalwe hangs and is a wolf. Who do you think this clears, and who do you think it casts suspicion on?
B: zakalwe hangs and is a villager. Same questions.

I answered this before, but if zak is a wolf I don't know that it would change much. I'd look hardest at TT and scooter, though.

If he's village, it makes Serdoa and you suspicious, maybe Injera. But if Serdoa is alive tomorrow he's already incredibly suspicious and you're already quite suspicious. Injera isn't on my radar at all, so that'd be the only real change, but even then, that's a bit spurious.