[Spoilers] Commodore as Washington of the Mongols

[Commodore]

How many Keshik-turns away TT is?

If you're going to aggressively settle in his face, I would try to have a NAP in place. Agree that T70 is too far away though. Try to calculate the _realistic_ time when you can attack, and sign the NAP until then. T60 sounds like a good number

Terrifyingly, with my roads and keshik mobility promotions, I could send a keshik stack from my capital to his gold city in 4 turns. I'm going to shoot for turn 61, although if it's 65 I'll be fine too.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey TT,

I'm not generally a big fan of NAPs, as they tend to have a distorting effect on not just the diplomacy of the parties in the NAP (wait, you're not renewing? Surely this means war!), but also with others outside the NAP (hrm, he's NAP'd with that one, so I see the power spike must be for me). That being said, Mackoti and Gaspar do seem to be ahead of the curve and I don't want to give them the excessively juicy center because we've been squabbling, so an nice "no rush 25 minutes" agreement would be nice (sorry if the Starcraft reference was lost there). Maybe 25 more turns, or up through Turn 61?

In other news, I have been exploring more of the map to my west, although still on our side of the mirror line. There's a lot more land E/W than N/S on this map, and the center areas that those landbridges lead to are incredible, with floodplains, lakes, and food galore. You find anything of particular interest? I have extra wheat and spices for trading, by the way, what are your "extras"?

Cheers,
-Commodore [/COLOR]

His borders are encroaching upon Gold Valley quickly, I need to settle soon. Fortunately, despite another warrior in view I don't see any settlers.



My own warrior is about to be reinforced with a chariot, which should secure things nicely on my end. My power graph is spiking nicely, and with Manticore making another 1-turn worker my workforce is going to be up to a wonderful 5, which is at least one advantage I have. The newest worker will immediately go 1NW to chop out the settler next.



For a moment I was worried that TT's expanded borders meant that his city (Moon River) was actually only 1S of his gold, which would have made the southern rice a lost cause, as well as ensuring that I needed to keep defensive forests. Fortunately, the victory conditions screen tells me it's just third-ring culture from his holy city.



Demos are screaming "need more cities, hombre", but fortunately the other crappy demo set is TT, so my immediate competition is doing just as poorly with one more city.



More exploration of the chewy center reveals...actually nothing, this turn. As well, it can't all be all-flood plains utopia spots.



Really want to play the next turn to see how the 'henge gamble goes.

[Commodore]

Hahaha! Nicely done, TT. Should have taken the T70 NAP and let the Keshiks just roll in a larger mass.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Hey Commodore,

I don't like NAPs myself but with macki & gaspar growing so well I think that we have to do something to counter that. I can accept a turn 61 NAP, though I would have to insist on the following condition.

- The NAP shall be considered broken if one party plants a city where its BFC crosses the mirror line into the other party's territory.

I hope you will be able to agree to this, otherwise we won't exactly be getting off to the best of starts for co-operation! You wouldn't want me to be expecting a flock of Keshiks this far in advance ;-)

TT[/COLOR]

Welp, I think we're going to be going for the "we won't exactly be getting off to the best of starts for co-operation" option. I might try soothing his ruffled feathers, but not until he plays his next turn. What are the odds a normal warrior and a 1.7 C1 warrior could kill a warrior on a forested hill?

[Commodore]

Well, that was hashed out quickly.

TwinkleToes: hey there

care for a quick response to my proposal while I have the save?
12:56 PM
Commodore: Ack, mind one more turn waiting? Ceiliazul has yet to weigh in.

TwinkleToes: nope

your secret is out
12:57 PM
Commodore: Which secret?

TwinkleToes: i spy with my little eye something beginning with US

unescorted settler

Commodore: Ringed by fogbusters, actually.
12:58 PM
TwinkleToes: sure

its pretty ringed by my warriors too
12:59 PM
so as I see it, there's pretty much only one option for me right now
1:00 PM
Commodore: Understand that there's no way I can settle the gold without BFC'ing the mirror line?

TwinkleToes: i managed it

easily
1:01 PM
you purposely made the choice not to take the same option

to be greedy
1:02 PM
Commodore: Otherwise wastes rice.

Although dry rice isn't all that.
1:04 PM
TwinkleToes: it isn't

and the city you are planning to found (I believe) is the epitome of greedy
1:06 PM
Commodore: Eh, you say greedy, I say paranoid about IMP.
1:07 PM
TwinkleToes: a city which could take my rice and sheep is pretty greedy in my book
1:08 PM
Commodore: You've scouted west a bit more than me, there a spot that uses the lower rice?
1:09 PM
TwinkleToes: you know there is - its where you are heading
1:10 PM
Commodore: I meant a westward one.

One that means we could split things if I move eastward.
1:11 PM
TwinkleToes: where exactly are you suggesting you settle?

Commodore: If I went 1SE of my gold, and you went west of your rice, would that be a workable split?
1:12 PM
TwinkleToes: I can't go west of my rice, its a peak

Commodore: Er, 2W, 1N.

That's still in the BFC, right?
1:13 PM
Don't have a map up, going from memory.

TwinkleToes: right - just checking that now

how about this proposal
1:14 PM
Commodore: I like how we said "tactical" and Bob went with "hard to dotmap"

TwinkleToes: you settle 1SE of your gold on the plains tile
1:15 PM
Commodore: That's what I was saying.

TwinkleToes: I settle 1 NW of my rice on the grass jungle tile
1:17 PM
Commodore: Okay, let me check it again, a moment please.

TwinkleToes: kk

Commodore: Wait, that's where I was going to settle.

SIgh.
1:18 PM
So my dotmap works well with your dotmap then...the BFC is across the mirror line, but if health is an issue I can gift you sheep.
1:19 PM
Gah, sorry, next time I'll assume less.

Oh, you thought I was going to settle on the PH?

TwinkleToes: yes
1:20 PM
Commodore: That would sacrifice long-term production and give frankly too much food.

I thought you were looking at 1N of your rice, which my 1SE of gold would block.

TwinkleToes: right
1:21 PM
so is my proposal ok?

Commodore: But yeah, if you go 1NW of your rice and I go 1SE of my gold, it's a fine deal.

And with those two exceptions, no mirror-line crossing.

TwinkleToes: yeah
1:22 PM
well until your flock of keshiks crosses it I guess...

;-)

Commodore: No worries, desert incense isn't worth messing with.

Oh, barbs, you notice?
1:23 PM
My flock will be able to help expand quite nicely to the west.

TwinkleToes: I hope

Commodore: If we can equitably split gold valley like this I'd rather have your cheap settlers pouring across towards Mackoti or Gaspar instead.
1:24 PM
TwinkleToes: yeah

i see this game right now as a kind of 'prisoner's dilemma'

Commodore: I wish I knew which one was north and which was south

TwinkleToes: yeah
1:25 PM
Commodore: Oh, hrm. If there is a center island, that might be another mirror line debate.
1:26 PM
TwinkleToes: possibly

but I think that's a dicussion for a later time!

Commodore: But that's fine, astro is a bit far out.

TwinkleToes: btw, what's the bets Macki is already going for the pyramids?

Commodore: I assume you're Oracling MC for the Colossus?

Oh, that's a sucker bet.
1:27 PM
TwinkleToes: I'm wondering if gaspar is wonder-bidding too

Commodore: Is Mackoti in the game? He's going for 'mids.

TwinkleToes: maybe the henge to stop you getting it?

as you benefit most from it

Commodore: Eh, with Caste and Spiritual it's a bit redundant
1:28 PM
TwinkleToes: true

Commodore: Actually, unless he's gotten it this turn it's a moot point.

TwinkleToes: nice
1:29 PM
Commodore: That's why I settled where I did, needed the horse hammers.

TwinkleToes: cool
1:30 PM
so are we sticking with our T61 NAP with this agreement then?

Commodore: Yep, T61, me 1SE of my gold, you 1NW of your rice.

Beyond that, no dueling BFCs

TwinkleToes: yup
1:31 PM
excellent - glad we managed to sort this!
1:32 PM
Commodore: Sure thing!

And next time, I'll be specific with where I'm planting. :P

TwinkleToes: yeah

i shall play the save now and talk soon
1:33 PM
Commodore: Cool, have fun with it.

I'm overall happy with things. My "flock of Keshiks" might hit him in the sixties, it might not, I'm still feeling flexible on that one. With the land nicely divided out here if I can win the settling race out west I'll be up still.

[Commodore]

Well, here's to a very, very satisfying turn. First off, I managed to dominate the majority of Gold Valley without sparking a waaaay too early war. So there's that going for me. Sphinx is going to be a strong city working very few tiles, with two sheep and a dry rice feeding the gold mine and several nice hills.



Darn thing was the widdlest bitty bit expensive, driving my 100% loss to -5gpt. I need to get that gold online fast, and the food to work it too. Otherwise, need more cities still, but I'm working on that one.



Slam is finding more awesome city sites westward, I want all of dem. Need to spam out about a hundred settlers and the Keshiks to support 'em. That should be doable while also gearing up for a war, right?



Manticore is putting nine hammers into a barracks before going onto a settler again, this time for the western wheat. I'll have two workers available to support it while the southern three frolic around Sphinx. I have roughly eleven turns until the empire goes into full ger/Keshik mode.



This is why I wasn't going to cry if TT had decided to push things. Mr. Power Graph tells me I have chariots and he doesn't.



Oh, one other little thing happened at end of turn (EoT). Half-powered Creative and half-powered Notre Dame for 80 hammers? Heck yes I'll take it. Stonehenge is mine, no more worries about culture popping.



Woot and awesomeness.

[Ichabod]

Congratulations, Commodore.

But enough culture for this game, now is time for keshiks! :neenernee

[Ceiliazul]

I waited 2 days with no update, and then *wham wham wham*!

First, congrats on the 'Henge. Invaluable to someone of your uncreative stature. ;-)

Also, kudos on the equitable agreement regarding Gold Valley. I agree completely that t60 is a good bet, and will allow you to consolidate.

Blue city for Maoi for sure. Also, I encourage you to prioritize that city as soon as Iron working comes in (soon, yes?) This will be your gateway to the West, and your ticket to a naval presence. Galley soon to find any center islands if you want your piece of that pie. (I'll take the over on an island with at least 2 resources not found on the mainland.)

(Or maybe there's stone on the 1-tile island in the center. That would be kinda cool, actually.)

-ceil

[Ceiliazul]

In looking at the map, I see several resources have not yet been sighted:

Crab
Diamonds
Silver
Stone
Marble

...we already talked about how there isn't much more land than you've already explored, so if there is/are center island(s)... it'll be choc-full-o-goodies. Don't assume you need astronomy either, the sheer distance may have convinced Bob that those wouldn't be early game breakers.

In fact, it may not be islands at all, but an tiny isthmus or peninsula on the e/w mirror line.

[Commodore]

Interesting thoughts, Ceil, in light of this peak-isolated "island" my scouting warrior has just uncovered. He's also standing on a very nice choke-point city location, if I can manage to settle it/get the barbs to settle here. Lets the "T" lake be a huge food producer, too. Finally, note the mini-map, I'm finally able to grasp visually just how far apart east and west are.



For the others among you, there will be blood, yes. But first there needs to be gold and furs powering research into ways to let that blood. We're at that stage right now.



Finally, demos. At 100% research, I'm leaving the others in the dust, thanks to that strong furs tile (also giving Gryphon a 3-turn worker). Crop yield tells me I'm the last to the second grain site.

[Ceiliazul]

Interesting thoughts, Ceil, in light of this peak-isolated "island" my scouting warrior has just uncovered. He's also standing on a very nice choke-point city location, if I can manage to settle it/get the barbs to settle here. Lets the "T" lake be a huge food producer, too. Finally, note the mini-map, I'm finally able to grasp visually just how far apart east and west are.

Comparing the Southern bridge, it looks like the barricaded area has an entrance from the south. interesting is the right word...

[yuris125]

About the chokepoint location, I'd rather found on the incense and not have so many peaks in the BFC. I understand why a hill spot could be the defining factor for a chokepoint city, just wanted to throw in an idea