[Spoilers] Commodore as Washington of the Mongols

[Ceiliazul]

What turn did you recently report on (when Minotaur started axe)?

Planned DoW on t61?

[Commodore]

What turn did you recently report on (when Minotaur started axe)?

Planned DoW on t61?

The NAP is through t61, so DoW is t62. Most recent turn is 53, so I have eight more build-up turns. Minotaur will whip in 3 turns to overflow into another 1-turn axe, then they get sent to Naga in time for the galley to finish up (workers are roading the way).

[Ceiliazul]

I'm on my phone, details later, but some ideas:

-East coast sentry keshik shd scout south asap.
Sailing will reveal trade resources only if you have a path defogged... the sentry maybe can do that for you.
-previous 2 steps are designed to find MyGirl before the war starts. That's actually critical, if thereare no coastal cities, galley/axes should be reallocated.

-I didn't see your worker moves noted there, but if you hve hopes of holding the Holy City, you need to road there even as the battle is getting done.

-I like your idea of shooting past Reach... put a couple mixed units on the hill to pin his defenders and otherwise ignore the city. The city is DOOMED without TT's holy city, and can be cleaned up later with leftover troops. These watchmen can alo serve as guards if you choose to connect to his gold road.

I'll open the save tonight for more details, just stuff that comes to mind.

[Commodore]

Well huh.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Commodore,

We need not beat about the bush. You are planning on declaring war on me at the end of our NAP. I am here to see if there is a chance for us to avoid it.

It cannot have escaped your notice that things seem a lot more peaceful and harmonious on the western front and a war between us, however successful or not for one side, will just hand victory to one of the western powers because of the amount of hammers invested in military instead of workers and settlers. You will not gain enough strong cities from this war to make up for my western neighbour having free reign to expand towards me from their side, with plenty of defensive chokepoints to prevent you making another military strike before your expensive army becomes obsolete. However much you may enjoy the thought of attacking me, it will turn out to be more counter-productive than productive. If the western powers needed any more encouragement to work together to maximise their own peaceful expansion, seeing us at war will seal that deal.

My initial offer to convince you to work with me instead of against me is thus:

- A NAP until T150.

- I will provide 3 settlers to you free of charge to expand westwards

- A permanent gifting of all duplicate resources in my area free of charge once hooked up.

I am prepared to negotiate on this offer, but I will not be held to ransom.

Its up to you.

TT[/COLOR]

For one thing, that's ransom. For another, I wish he'd have made this offer a little while ago, but I understand he had to see my power rating first. The infrastructure isn't actually all that big a deal, as I'm sure gers will make my knights or cavalry relevant too. Still, this is a good offer, and one I'm prepared to negotiate on. Maybe with a NAP 'till 120? That's still in the cavalry era, just in case.

What's the thinking here, lurkers? (Beyond "Gah! Need moar blood!") If I do get those three settlers quickly, it would go a long way to making the current expenditures worth it. This has TT pretty darn crippled, too, even moreso than already.

One issue is that if Gaspar or particularly Mackoti is to the west of TT, I expect him to be not much of a resistance to them. If I do accept something close to these terms, you better believe I'm sending a mass wave of keshiks westward to claim a massive chunk of land.

[Ceiliazul]

Wow, that's a mouthful! Are you holding the turn right now?

[Commodore]

Wow, that's a mouthful! Are you holding the turn right now?

Yep, and negotiating.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]TT,

I appreciate the frankness, and I'll return it in kind. I was looking at attacking once the NAP was up (if not on t62, then near it). It's not that I enjoy the thought of attacking you, though, please don't think there's anything personal like that. We're very cramped here in our corner, and it's difficult to use my substandard traits in a pure settling race, which the long-range westward push would be. However, what you're offering goes a long way to equalizing that lack.

One other lesson I've learned, though, is that having your neighbor peaceful is only half of the battle. Can you also ensure that Gaspar or Mackoti (I'm keeping to the contact agreement, just have yet to meet either one up here) won't be able to blitz through your lands, giving me a terrifying double-size neighbor in the place of the relatively peaceful HRE? IE, can you use your Imp/Org to stop the invading Westerlings at roughly the mirror line?

Allow me to send a counter-offer:

-NAP 'till 120. This is generally the inflection point, from what I can tell, where runaways start to be unbeatable. With the way things tend to accelerate post-Liberalism, it becomes a "too late" phenomenon very often. Just a note, this is dangerous to me as it's basically a "NAP until your UU is active and mine is obsolete"

-4 settlers, two to be deliverable by turn 62, two more by 75. I need to push hard westward if I am to gain the upper hand out there.

-I'm flexible with resources, and don't want to leave you crippled if we're working together. I'll take the duplicates upon hookup, but I also won't dwaddle too much in getting my own back to you.

-Marble. I have Stone on the one-tile island in the small sea to my west, and I'm assuming you have marble. I'll be perfectly willing to trade for Moai, Oxford, etc but I'll also need access to marble for my Epics.

If we're going to work together, then we need to fully work together. I'm prepared to offer 2-promo keshiks for settlers or workers, to give you a mobility advantage on the western land push. More trades down the road, including possibly me buying landsknechts, should also be on the table.

What say you?
-Commodore[/COLOR]

This might be pushing things too hard, but I cannot help but think that 150 is too long. I need to at least have the cavalry era open as an option. I mean what I said, though, trading excess keshiks for Imp settlers or more workers would be a very good deal indeed.

[Ceiliazul]

This might be pushing things too hard, but I cannot help but think that 150 is too long. I need to at least have the cavalry era open as an option. I mean what I said, though, trading excess keshiks for Imp settlers or more workers would be a very good deal indeed.

My official advice is to hold the save until this gets sorted.

If he'll pay for peace, then your builds need to change immediately. If he just wants to *talk* peace, then you know what you need to do.

(plus it puts more pressure on him to respond, a good thing for you)

[Commodore]

So here's the thing, Ceiliazul and I had a chat and I'm even firmer in my belief that I need to make some massive gains to keep up with Gaspar and most especially Mackoti, the Pyramids just fell. Either I extract gold and cities from TT with blood, or I get his settlers and push, hard, in Always Peace settling mode (using keshiks to assure my neighbor that this is going to be peaceful.

First note, galley plan is on hold, as it looks like My Girl isn't on the coast nearby. I might send an empty one to threaten if war breaks out, but the axes go to the valley.



Secondly, I'll be getting more than one trick pony, looks like we have a city making us some friends. Level 3 keshiks are a single barbarian fight away each time, and I'll be getting several from this incursion. I was wondering when these lads would show up.



Left the land bridge unfogged hoping to get some XP, and here we are.

If I do take TT's terms, I'm pushing hard a fast out west. Either via southern bridge, northern bridge, or galley through the lakes, which can actually link up everything. Stone Island gets settled when the initial rush has subsided. We're crashin' the economy hard on this one.




C'mon, TT, I'm holding this save until you cave or tell me to come atcha, bro.

[Ceiliazul]

If I do take TT's terms, I'm pushing hard a fast out west.

You're so good at diplomacy you even confused yourself: these are YOUR terms, not his.

Don't get all settlers and rainbows in your head yet. Wait til the ink is dry.

[Commodore]

You're so good at diplomacy you even confused yourself: these are YOUR terms, not his.

Don't get all settlers and rainbows in your head yet. Wait til the ink is dry.

My reads have thus far been accurate. Here we go:

[COLOR="Yellow"]Commodore,

It appears that we are very close to an agreement. I do agree that an agreement like this is only beneficial if both parties are prepared to work together, rather than the agreement effectively acting as a screen while both sides spend the time building up forces on the border. I am prepared to work with you, as it is the best option that we have and we need to get moving towards the main mirror line.

In terms of that, I can tell you that I have a scouting warrior which has crossed the mirror line by nearly 5 tiles and has yet to meet any unit nor city border of my western neighbour. Thus I am not facing an opponent who is already spreading headlong towards me. I also have marked out two very useful choke cities near the line which as long as I hold them with force, will ensure that it is very difficult for the other opponent to rampage past me without fair warning. I hope that can answer your questions about whether I can stop my westerling from gobbling up my land.

I think your counter-offer is very nearly perfect, but just needs a couple of corrections to be fully right.

1) NAP until T120 - that's alright for me though I wouldn't mind having it auto-renew afterwards with a 10t cool-down. I know it leads into the time that my UU is active, but you also know that my UU isn't anywhere near as fearsome as yours and I think adding a auto-renew and cooldown period may be able to put your mind at ease a bit more and should war ever come you would have adequate warning. Feel free to extend that cooldown if it you prefer more warning.

2) I can agree to 4 settlers and the timeframe. All I would request is that you perhaps gift me 2 Keshiks so that I can have a powerful and swift moving guard for my westward settlers to settle west quicker with good protection against any barbs. Is that acceptable?

3) We can just exchange our duplicates when they are hooked up as it will be helpful for both of us.

4) Unfortunately, My offshore island also has stone on it. I have a good idea where Marble may be, and shall inform you of its location when I do but it is not within sight right now, and I have scouted quite a lot of my westward expansion land and have not seen it there yet.

I also agree with your final text talking about later co-operation which I am happy to do.

I hope that we are now very close to an agreement.

Regards,

TT
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]TT,

Looks like we can indeed work together here. Glad to hear that the centerline is not yet claimed, and it looks like with IMP working for both of us we have a chance to cork the chokepoints before it's too late.

I think we can agree on a deal, with one other term that shouldn't be an issue:

1) NAP until Turn 120, with an auto renew 10 turns rolling NAP afterward.

2)I gift two keshiks, with your preferred two promotions (or unpromoted with the note that they take on more XP for you to get to level two). Delivery dates are 62 for the first, 75 for the second, although I should have the second one earlier. You gift two settlers by 62, and two more by 75 likewise. I do not use the settlers on our border area, and you don't use the keshiks against me.

3) Resource exchanges once they are hooked up. I'll also send along an open borders request with the turn.

4) No artists, great or small, in Reach or Sphinx. Let's not make this unlivable around there.

This seem like a fair deal?

Regards,
-Commodore[/COLOR]

Sure, TT, I'll sop your pride and annoy your opponent by giving you some classical-era nukes to play with, but it's on the timescale to ensure you follow through. Meanwhile, I'm making workers and more workers.