How do counter abilities work?

[luddite]

So I'm a little bit confused anyway. If an archer attacks my Quecha, does it get a 50% penalty or do I get a 100% bonus? If I have a bunch of other defense bonuses, the 100% bonus becomes a lot worse than the 50% penalty.

Yeah, you get the 100% bonus there, since you're the defender.

For that sort of reason, the combat promotions can sometimes be a lot better than you'd expect. In some situations, the 10% combat promo can actually be worth MORE than a 25% counter bonus.

[Cyneheard]

So I'm a little bit confused anyway. If an archer attacks my Quecha, does it get a 50% penalty or do I get a 100% bonus? If I have a bunch of other defense bonuses, the 100% bonus becomes a lot worse than the 50% penalty.

It works like this:
Attacker's Base Strength*(100% + Combat Promotions) vs. Defender's Base Strength * (Defender's Combat Promotions + Defender's Situational modifiers - Attacker's Situational Modifiers)

Situational Modifiers:
Terrain bonuses
Amphibious penalties
Shock, Cover, etc.
City Raider/City Garrison
Fortification bonus
etc.
Basically, every single potential bonus that isn't a combat promotion.

Yes, it has some weird effects (like before LBs and XBows, a Praet should NEVER take Cover. Combat II is better against Archers than Cover). But that's the way the combat system is set up.

[sunrise089]

realistically, an aggressive jaguar is the only unit that's likely to get woodsman 3 + medic 3 in a regular game.

???

Can't great generals still provide their XP boost to units already with the GG promo? If not just put one other unit on the tile.

@Darrell - The Impi also has his innate movement ability. The disadvantage is there's a larger portion of the game where he'll be the top defender. That's the nice thing about chariot defenders - they're pretty much never going to defend, though of course they loose out on those woodsman promos.

In general combat promos are better when your unit is high base strength relative to the opposition, like mounted units (or Praets). Low-strength things like archery units are probably better taking non-combat promos.

[luddite]

???

Can't great generals still provide their XP boost to units already with the GG promo? If not just put one other unit on the tile.

Yeah you have to stick another unit on the tile, so in that case the second GG only gives 10 XP to it. And you need 50 XP to get the 7 necessary promotions. Even if you start with 10 XP that's 3 GGs, which seems excessive. I guess if you're aggressive or aztec you could do it with "only) a 7 XP unit + 2 GGs, but that's still kind of excessive for such a small benefit, don't you think? It's hardly ever going to happen. Has there ever been a MP game here where someone did it?

[sunrise089]

Yeah you have to stick another unit on the tile, so in that case the second GG only gives 10 XP to it. And you need 50 XP to get the 7 necessary promotions. Even if you start with 10 XP that's 3 GGs, which seems excessive. I guess if you're aggressive or aztec you could do it with "only) a 7 XP unit + 2 GGs, but that's still kind of excessive for such a small benefit, don't you think? It's hardly ever going to happen. Has there ever been a MP game here where someone did it?

I can't recall if it's been done or not, but I don't think it's excessive at all. Multiple GGs are easy to get, and the decreasing return buffing the healer is no worse than settling generals in lower production cities.

[T-hawk]

Late game, the Red Cross is another shortcut, giving Medic I for free so you can also skip Combat I and need only 5 real promos.