[spoilers] Gaspar and Commodore welcome you to the islands, mon!

[Ceiliazul]

Do we realistically think we can outplay Sian, Yuri and/or rego over the course of x turns?

Don't forget Pindicator...

Anyway, if you're playing from behind, seems like you have to build your way out. Even if a military route could help you pull one crab back into the pot, it doesn't help you catch up to everyone else.

Sign the NAPs and get that lap back!

[Gaspar]

Rego says we need to go SW-SW next turn if we don't want to be blocked by his borders.

[Gaspar]

Not much going on. Peon 2 starts chopping next turn. Other peons are building a farm at the cap and a Mine at Zuldazar respectively. Rego founded his 3rd city same turn as us. Sian is still on two. Galley completed in the capital @EOT. We'll put 1t into a something (work boat probably) while it grows to size 5 and then start another settler. I "feel" like we're close to circumnavigation, but I have no proof of that yet.

[Commodore]

Looking good. I feel like most people are doing roughly as crappy as we are here. Need more input regarding Yuri (probably can outplay, but caution, Mr. Evil is his guide) and Regoarrarr (probably cannot outplay, but we're currently even with him...need EPs focused on him), but Sian, at least, I tossed an offer at.

[COLOR="Orange"]Hey Sian,

First off, let me apologize for waiting this long to reply. As you might have seen from the PBEM 24 tech thread, I've been on travel for the last five days, but I'm back now.

We've met Yuri to our southwest fairly close, and Regoarrarr a bit further. If you'd like directions to meet them, let us know and we'll try to coordinate meetings.

Finally, a word on settling. I think we can agree that this is obviously a large map despite how close we all are to each other, and I see no reason for any kind of conflict for quite some time. A general settling agreement I'd like to outline then would be we avoid settling any first-ring islands of yours (like stone) and you agree to avoid settling any first-ring islands of ours (like the wet wheat to our east or the no-resource spot SW of us). To make you feel more generally comfortable, a NAP until turn 80 can be thrown in.

Tell us how it sounds, I hope we can work together here.
-Commodore[/COLOR]

Not mentioned? In this slow tech pace world, turn 80 is the relaxed path to HBR and Numids.

[Ceiliazul]

Not mentioned? In this slow tech pace world, turn 80 is the relaxed path to HBR and Numids.

Not this $#!* again... just kidding, sounds like fun.

you guys started this game with a pretty negative take on things, it's been cool to see your improved outlook translate more or less directly to better demos. Keep it up!

[Gaspar]

Don't out EPs on rego until we have Sian/Yuri graphs. We can outplay rego, but more importantly, distance is the factor that makes me think we should cultivate the ergo friendship. I think we should only deal with Yuri if we get a ironclad favorable settling agreement from Mr. IMP Inca.

But I'd favor a NAP and close alliance with ergo until the later game.

[Commodore]

Well, good news and bad news. The good news is that we're also members of a couple clubs now. A galley has been born, which is grand, and we're happily showing it in the power ratings.



Also in the good news column, we're really close to showing that the world is a toroid, much to the dismay of people who like to be able to actually conceptualize a planet.



Bad news? We met Pindicator, he's about to settle his third city, and it's on the mirror of our own Stone Island. This is a definite Bad Thing. Now I'm betting Stonehenge is his first target, but we'd better be dang sure about that before we stop all capital production for ten turns.



So I sent off this:

[COLOR="Orange"]Hey Pindicator,

Hail and well met, our fearsome work boat has wandered near your soon-to-be borders from what I can only assume is your E/SE. Do not worry, we come in peace seeking contacts. I assume you've met Rego to your northeast? If you haven't, you will when you settle this turn. How's it going on this side of the world? How's Plako's Revenge been treating you? We've been whining nonstop about settling on floodplains and seafoodless fishing starts, but at least we're not alone. Let us know what contacts you need and we'll try to help you fill them.

Until later,
-Commodore [/COLOR]

Also, because we weren't already in it, revolted to slavery.

[Commodore]

*cough*

[COLOR="MediumTurquoise"]Greetings Commodore,
Well met indeed! Your work boat certain did inspire the fear of the Viking people. The wailed and gnashed their teeth and hid like children at the sight of such a fearsome fighting beast. Frank -- FDR, that is -- had to gather them around his campfire and try to tell them that there was nothing to fear but fear itself. I don't know if the message took quite like he meant it, because now they've taken to calling your workboat "Fear Incarnate". I tell yeh, I was doubled over in stitches laughing at the whole incident; when Frank gets together with those Vikings just about anything can happen!

So you must have come from my SE? Yuris had sent me to his SW to find you, and I believe rego told me you were to his NE. Either everybody's sense of cardinal direction is off or we must be on one of those toroids I keep hearing about. I have met everybody but Sian. Have you met him? If you could get me directions on how best to meet him that would be much appreciated. Also, if you are in need of any directions I can do my best to help but my knowledge is sadly limited.

Yes, with such a vindictive map as this we most certainly must all work together if we are to survive. Who knows what other surprises this plako has in store for us? But as long as his revenge is not like Montezuma's I think I'll be able to stomach it.

Let me know if the Viking people can be of any assistance,
pindicator[/COLOR]

So, we're in a diagonal line running SW to NE, with the order being Pin-Rego-Sian-Us-Yuri. Swell! I think we're going to land Magellan's unless Pindicator's been pushing fast. This will be fun to work out.

[Ceiliazul]

*cough*

So, we're in a diagonal line running SW to NE, with the order being Pin-Rego-Sian-Us-Yuri. Swell! I think we're going to land Magellan's unless Pindicator's been pushing fast. This will be fun to work out.

[Commodore]

Okay, so arm-wrestling Yuri for a NAP/settling agreement. We both negotiate hard and managed to get the original proposal.

The gist of which was this:

[COLOR="Orange"]Hey Yuri, here's the idea:

Okay, well I have a proposal, got an old screenshot and drew what I think is a fair dividing line. I propose we settle nothing on the line or on the other player's side (unless it's further out than the line here, fair game out beyond three islands from home).

-Commodore[/COLOR]

And it was north of the line, IE, his land, but Yuri wants to settle above a corn...which was his in my original proposal.

[COLOR="Wheat"]Hey Commodore

I'm fine with your proposal in general, but there is an island exactly
on your dividing line, which I want to declare disputed territory.
It's 3 tiles away from both our territories - see attached screenshot

Also, just to confirm, do you mean that anything outside of the
screenshot is disputed territory?

Cheers
Yuri[/COLOR]

So, yeah. He also wants OB and to swim around our lands, which is a no, but I think we could work something out.

Chat:

Commodore: That's good, at least.

Oh! So is Pindicator to your NE in 26?

Yuri: he says so

I didn't find him yet

Commodore: Oh, he found you.
12:04 PM
It's weird, I think we're in a diagonal line.

There's a ton more territory NW and SE.

Yuri: well, a ton of territory means crazy expansion, I like it

Commodore: :P

Yuri: I'm waiting for our reply to the NAP offer btw
12:05 PM
Commodore: Oh! Crap, sorry.

Yuri: no worries

Commodore: Been a busy weekend.

Yuri: I know

Commodore: Drove more than 1400 miles.

Yuri: but hoped to get it on Sunday or yesterday

wow

Commodore: Yeah, sorry, was looking for you online yesterday.
12:06 PM
Yuri: and I was sleeping :P

Commodore: I think our general thinking was that we're all for a NAP if it comes with a settling agreement, Mr. Joao Inca.

Yuri: lol, why am I not surprised?

what do you have in mind?
12:07 PM
Commodore: Well, obviously any islands in our first ring of islands are ours.

Horse/stone, etc
12:08 PM
Looks like you have a first ring too, and our first ring is your second, etc.

Yuri: horse/stone is yours, I have no claim for it
12:09 PM
but the island E of the horse/stone one is disputed territory
12:10 PM
Commodore: The one with the PH/gl/plain?

Yuri: yeah, that one

it's just 2 tiles away from our home island
12:11 PM
Commodore: I'd say it's yours, if you could avoid settling it until after stone gets settled so as not to disrupt us with your culture.

Seem fair?

Yuri: when do you plan to settle the stone?
12:12 PM
Commodore: Pretty soon, be nice to have Stonehenge if possible.

Lacking free culture from our granaries. :P

Yuri: lol :P

let's do a map exchange of the home islands and the land between them

from what I saw of your island, it looks like the home islands are identical or at least very similar
12:13 PM
so it's not too much information

but would be easier to discuss which islands belong to whom

Commodore: Not identical, but similar.
12:14 PM
From what I've seen, it looks like we all go big but bleak starting islands, and tiny but lush nearby islands.

Yuri: well, not exactly lush

but definitely better than the starting island

Commodore: Relative to the starting.

Yeah. :P
12:15 PM
Yuri: let me finish the turn in 20, then I'll open the latest 26 save to have the map in front of me before agreeing to anything
7 minutes
12:23 PM
Commodore: Okay, sending a shot.
12:24 PM
Yuri: I have the game open
12:26 PM
Commodore: Computer is being slow, get the image?
12:27 PM
Yuri: yeah

3 silver, huh?

Commodore: There might be a little misinformation.
12:28 PM
But the map is accurate

Yuri: yeah I can see it

hmm

there's an island you don't see yet
12:29 PM
which I want to declare disputed territory

it's right on your red line

Commodore: How far north?

Yuri: 3 tiles from your home island

and 3 tiles from our border

Commodore: Mind sending the image?

Yuri: sure
9 minutes
12:39 PM
Yuri: you should have it
12:40 PM
Commodore: Cool, discussing it with Gaspar.
12:41 PM
Yuri: hehe. I can see him swearing and saying "no way" :P
12:42 PM
Commodore: Heh, well, you know what else is on that island?
12:43 PM
Yuri: no, it's the latest screen
12:44 PM
Commodore: Well, hrm.

Yuri: well, you can just settle it next

before we get there
12:45 PM
Commodore: So you want the island, right, not to settled on corn.

Yuri: I want it to be not covered by the agreement

I'm not laying claim on it

I jsut want to be able to settle there if I get there first
12:46 PM
Commodore: So if there's a place to settle north of it that's open?

Yuri: north of the corn, yeah

that tile is exactly on the dividing line
5 minutes
12:52 PM
Commodore: Well, you were right about his general unhappiness.
12:53 PM
I'm on the side of generally declaring it okay.
12:54 PM
Anything you can give to pot-sweeten?

Yuri: anything you want?

there's not much we can give at this point

Commodore: Oh, very true
12:55 PM
Well, you're IMP, so I suppose what you could give is a line-extension.
12:56 PM
Let us rest easier further up and down this side, so we can both settle more aggressively the other direction.
12:59 PM
Yuri: well, the problem is, if it was just for exclusive settling rights of this corn island, I would've been fine with it

but giving up part of our potential expansion simply for an "open spot" seems to be too much
1:00 PM
I'm not even saying I want to settle this island next

I just want this option to be available
1:01 PM
Commodore: Oh, yeah, we've got a dozen "better than home" spots to choose from. :P

Yuri: you do, actually

there's a deer - double crab spot right next to your starting island
1:02 PM
we have nothing similar

want a screenshot?

Commodore: Sure!

Yeah, we evidently picked the wrong direction to explore.
1:04 PM
Yuri: sent

Commodore: Okay, so Gaspar's quote: "'m semi-ok with this, but if we're going to be friends, can we agree to sharing some map-knowledge and a written agreement to renegotiate should either of us see something"

Yuri: sure, I'm fine with it
1:07 PM
Commodore: Okay, well, in that case, Gaspar's out for a moment, but I think we can agree to that much

We'll just extend the red line, rolling NAP, and watch out Sian and Pindicator.

Yuri: Pindicator is going your way

on a workboat
1:08 PM
but will be a while, he came to our north

Commodore: Nasty big islands.

Heh, steer him a little wrong, 4-move galleys would be a little scary.

Yuri: hehe

you know it's a toroidal map by the way?
1:09 PM
Commodore: Maintenance would say "yes"

Makes me glad to be Org.

Yuri: well, Pindicator told me Rego is to his NE, and he said you're to his NE

Commodore: I need to stop having games where the HRE would be a good choice.
1:10 PM
:P

Yuri: hehe, HRE is never a good choice, starting techs suck :P

I repeatedly wished we had a better starting tech than Myst
1:11 PM
Commodore: Worse than fishing/mining for this no-seafood, AH start? :P

Yuri: definitely

Mining makes you closer to BW, Fishing closer to Sailing

both key techs

Commodore: Hammurabi of the Zulu would have been interesting here, actually.
1:12 PM
Yuri: why Hammurabi? Agg is rarely a good trait

Commodore: Oh, that's good in the long-term, but short term it hurt to have to research food techs

Agg for cheap Ikhandas

Yuri: ah
1:13 PM
well, I would still prefer Exp/Agg



or Exp/Org

Ikhandas are not that good

you don't want them everywhere generally

Commodore: It's true

Unless it's a toroidal island. :P
1:14 PM
Joao of Inca is an awesome combo, though.

Yuri: yeah, hope so

still don't understand why Sian is leading in score though

or is he the only Cre?
1:15 PM
Commodore: Yep, only Cre

Yuri: ah that explains it

Commodore: Yeah, it threw me too.

Only at 2 cities still.

Yuri: did you read it from demo, or did you meet him?
1:16 PM
I honestly have no idea how many cities he has

Commodore: Oh, met him.

Sorry, thought I told you.

He's to our SW

Yuri: aha, thanks

Commodore: We're in a line, I think.
1:17 PM
Yuri: I thought Rego is to your SW? that's what PIndicator told me

Commodore: I guess Rego is further SW.

Yuri: ah

well, if we're all in a line, it's an interesting setup

Commodore: Okay, before it's official I'll need to have Gaspar input, he's had to duck out.
1:18 PM
Yuri: sure

how do you feel about OB by the way?

Commodore: As long as we can include a no-scouting clause, trade routes are good.

Yuri: well, I'd like ships to be able to enter borders

Commodore: Find any marble yet, by the way?

Yuri: no
1:19 PM
Commodore: Bummer, so I assume you have stone too but no marble? I suppose that's fair but it'd be nice to be able to trade.
1:20 PM
Yuri: yeah, would be nice, but we have the same setup, horses and stones on the island NE of the start, and no marble in sight
1:21 PM
Commodore: Ah well...wines on the home island?
1:23 PM
Yuri: yeah

your north and east are exactly the same as ours

the costal tiles
1:25 PM
Commodore: I suppose it's a good thing we're mirrored.

Yuri: so, what about OB? ships can enter other empire's borders, but no landings

Commodore: I'd be mad if someone got a different start. :P

Yuri: yeah, because the start is so poor
1:26 PM
Seven's first post: "Plako is a bastard"

:D

Commodore: Odd. That was Gaspar's exact first reaction too.

Yuri: loo

lol
1:28 PM
Commodore: Well, what would be the purpose of entering each other's borders?

Beyond dipping in and out for ease of passage along the line.

Yuri: to get to lands beyond the other empire
1:29 PM
it's not always possible to go around borders in ships which cannot enter the ocean

Commodore: Right, so you want to aggressively settle Sian? Hah

That's actually be hillarious.
1:30 PM
Yuri: yeah

:D

no, I just want to get to him, and don't know if your borders will block me

Commodore: Oh, as long as you keep going west three or four more turns and then head south, you'll avoid my borders.
1:31 PM
I'd say no border crossings in general, but certainly on a case-by-case basis it should be fine.

Yuri: ok, agreed

I will offer OB tomorrow morning

assuming I get the turn today, and another in the morning
1:32 PM
Commodore: Hah, sounds good, that will be a nice boost for both of us.
1:33 PM
Yuri: hope so. the game doesn't show a trade connection between us for some weird reason

Commodore: I'll check with Gaspar, but he should be fine with it if there's a no-scout clause.

Odd.

Yuri: yeah, the route between us is defogged, so I expected to have a trade connection. but oh well, we'll have it sooner or later
1:34 PM
Commodore: Yeah, the game is a little odd about connections sometimes.