[Spoilers] Commodore as Washington of the Mongols

[Ceiliazul]

Well, yeah, we might be able to work out something here, but I'm not going to be bullied.

Wow, you come out swinging. How about you rename the city "I WILL FIGHT" (his former city) and let that be your answer.

I agree with your analysis of the attack window. How long is Gaspar's NAP with Mack?

I'm still your ded-lurk in this game, but never got back in the groove after the various hiccups. i'll try to rectify that going forward. Oh, and what wonders are leftover for Sphinx? Zeus still around?

[Commodore]

Well, it's a bummer, but Mackoti made it good enough a threat/offer:

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hi Commodore,
1.'whereas I currently have a much larger military than you' you have 30k more than me lets from where: 12k HBR; archery 5-8 k; dont remember exactly so you have more ore less 4 axes or 3-4 kesics so not a big diference i may say and with me fielding maceman and knigs if i want in 3 or 4 turns and having already some triremes, i realy dont think you have any military edges.
I think i have the military to raze that city anyway why to pay you 150 gold?

2.Declaring war on you, you and i will get nothing from the routes and you too so no gain here, and signigning a Nap in this condition you may have a setler prepared just to resetle.And Btw i have 14 cities and you have 15 so its not like i didn't setled cities you have just one more .

3. I am not pushing you around actualy i think i ofered you more than i should, because when you was pink doted by Mister nice guy you started the ploting.Thinking back i should just have done that, but i believed you are a resonable guy and i could do some busines with you.

So like a sumary this is my las offer:

1 you gift me that city i pay you 150;
2.Open borders(only if you want)
3.I will not setle any of your land you will not setle mine.
4. A NAP until turn 110 if you prefer so i would prefer longer.

If not i will declare war this turn and land my units and lets the war beggin.And i will get the city anyway.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Mackoti,

Fair enough, go ahead and land them, it'll be fine to fight. Nothing personal, but I dislike being pushed into something when I cannot even see the turn in question. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Cyan"]hi,
I just got home.
I have a galey which has in it a speraman and a chariot.I realy want to give peace a chanse and becasue the state of war even after we agree about peace or something we will not get trade routes which a big disavantage for both of us.
i sent a screenshot atached to see that i don lie. I will wait for final answer.And I am sure i made you a realy fair ofert.

regards,
Mackoti[/COLOR]

Attached picture of holkan + chariot in galley.

So then:

Mackoti: hi
Commodore: Hey, just drafting a reply.
3:52 PM Mackoti: we can discus over here if you want
no need for a reply
Commodore: About to have people come over, but I have a minute.
Mackoti: k
3:53 PM Commodore: Basically, I can't see how giving a city to the current leader is worth 150 gold.
Mackoti: what about
50 gold
and a setler?
3:54 PM Commodore: Oh, the settler isn't hard, it's the giving you an already-built city in a hard-to-reach area.
Mackoti: i have galey there
3:55 PM and a setler near by
but i seen your borders in the fog
so i got down the setler and put
the units
3:56 PM Commodore: Fair enough, so it should be easy for you to resettle.
Mackoti: yeah but if i declare no trade routes
3:57 PM in other bpem you sonud like avery resonable player
so for that i didnt think to build a fleet and ambush
3:58 PM i have very strong city near by
sdize 14
with moai
Commodore: Thanks, I like to think I am, but it's like I said, not sure how your offer has much chance of me winning the game.
3:59 PM Mackoti: well its beter than me raising the city
and you getting nothing
Commodore: Not really.
4:00 PM Mackoti: I just builded great lighouse in pbem 23
and i prey pleople to open borders with
ofering all kinfd of gifts
Commodore: That's because of no talking, I think.
4:01 PM The team with the 'mids are so incredibly ahead it's crazy that people aren't giving them for free.
:P
Mackoti: they played too good
4:02 PM i will sel setler for 150
every day
would
Commodore: Hrm
Mackoti: if you buy i sell
4:03 PM 3 pop whip 150 gold?
yes please
4:04 PM and you'll win alot from trade routes because i have big cities
Commodore: Tell you want, I can deal with one additional caveat, I need the marble for five more turns.
Mackoti: ok
4:05 PM Commodore: Finishing up the ToA
Mackoti: say
ok
so how we do?
4:07 PM Commodore: I transfer the city over in five turns, once the ToA is done.
Mackoti: k
Commodore: Otherwise, NAP to 110, OB immediately, and I won't settler your side.
Mackoti: ok i wil propose open borders this turn.
Commodore: Fair enough.
4:08 PM Mackoti: and what you want setler and 150
and 50
Commodore: Also, this means you get the silver, what are your 3-calendar resoucres south?
Mackoti: or 150
Commodore: 150
Mackoti: more valuble
i tough so
dye i think
4:09 PM the one for tetres
teatres
Commodore: I might ask for dye if happy is an issue
Might not be, thanks to Chm
Mackoti: you have something in exchange?
what you have?
Commodore: Spice
Mackoti: good
yamy
4:10 PM Commodore: Health not happy, but that's okay I guess.
Mackoti: well gives one 1
happy too
and health with grocers
Commodore: Yeah
Okay, our guests are here.
Mackoti: ok
Commodore: You can wait on the 150 until the city gets gifted.
4:11 PM Mackoti: ok
Commodore: Seems fair that way
Mackoti: indeed
its beter this way
Commodore: Glad to do buisness with you.
Mackoti: have a nice evening
me too
Commodore: Same to you.
Cheers, Mackoti

[Ceiliazul]

Well, it's a bummer, but Mackoti made it good enough a threat/offer:

well crap he's pretty convincing. Did you just get locked out of the center then? can you still get the iron/diamond spots?

i didnt see the answer, when does Gaspar's NAP expire?

[novice]

Who knew Mackoti was such an accomplished diplomat.

[Commodore]

well crap he's pretty convincing. Did you just get locked out of the center then? can you still get the iron/diamond spots?

i didnt see the answer, when does Gaspar's NAP expire?

Well, he's in the "carry a big stick" school of diplomacy, which has its...charms. I'm not locked out at all, I'll be settling on the non-Mack-sided gems and trading permanent gems for marble to Gaspar, so that will be okay, actually should have full foreign/IC trade routes in every single city, which will be amazing.

Gaspar was apparently forced to keep secret how long his NAP is with Mack, but I think I'm going to be looking into the Liberalism line -> Military Tradition in any case here, with a slightly early Guilds for added security.

One additional strategic consideration is that TT is a very, very weak reed, and my NAP with him expires on turn 120. I might be able to do a huge Cav blitz across his whole empire in very good time, which would secure a nice land advantage.

You're right about Sphinx, culture is getting a little close, I'll need to make the SoZ soon.

[Commodore]

Well, nice to see a successful defense of a city. Gaspar's escort-fu is strong, a spear would have done wonders defending my Harpy as well. Ah well, still have the GLH powering me here.



That GLH-powered expansion is also being abetted by a huge worker force. The much-maligned Hippocampus is getting completely renovated by the passing-through worker force. Bit of a pile-up, but man are these guys making a lot of stuff.



Sphinx, in real need of culture, is going to take a break from being awesome to make me a 3-turn culture building down there. Nice, eh? Might lose the southernmost mine to the Holy City down there for a bit, but it'll reclaim it with work.



One more wonder being knocked out, the ToA. I dread asking, but this is only 100% added to the base rate, isn't it? I'll be a sad but unsurprised panda if that's the case.



Doom, doom, doom, doomy doomy DOOOOOOM.

[SevenSpirits]

One more wonder being knocked out, the ToA. I dread asking, but this is only 100% added to the base rate, isn't it? I'll be a sad but unsurprised panda if that's the case.

Yup. It just adds the base value of the route (typically 1, but higher if the target city has >10 pop and is >10 tiles away) to the final value again.

[novice]

One more wonder being knocked out, the ToA. I dread asking, but this is only 100% added to the base rate, isn't it? I'll be a sad but unsurprised panda if that's the case.

Correct. So typically a 1 commerce increase per trade route.

[Commodore]

Two turns today. First of all, TT man, what are you doing dude? My keshik is the only thing he's got out there? Really, no sign of cities? Ouch.



Meanwhile, I'm cheerfully REX'ing my little Mongol butt off, my reachiest reach kindly not stealing Gaspar's horse or deer, but grabbing a lot of lovely riverland nonetheless. This place is a wee bit exposed, but wonderfully productive for all that.



Now what's really productive is Manticore. Oh my word, these are some gnarly capital sites Bob's given us, what with the huge production, billions of grassland, and resources out the wazoo. Bureau might be a must, much as I like instant 3-promo horse units and the cost reduction of Vassalage for this empire.



One other cool thing...got a nice new culture building! I find it amusing that what I built to claim my territory is so very clearly claiming my territory in a visual way as well as helping with the culture. I'll be getting Hinduism in there soon to help out too.



Although there's going to be some annoying visual weirdness too. Um, guys, I appreciate the energetic masonry and all, but really, I think this is pretty much officially Mongolian territory.



Is a Mongolian making the Great Wall basically self-hating?

[Ceiliazul]

Is a Mongolian making the Great Wall basically self-hating?

lol.

What's up with angry mermaid? Is it a sign that Moai is nearly done?